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FRAnkly ,

Nazi is a communist term for delegitimizing a legitimate sovereign nation. Cope with it. Churchill said so.

Tristaniopsis ,

Lemmy.ml should be sent to purgatory.

dangblingus ,

Many instances have shit like hexbear federated, but have explicit rules on the side saying "no tankie shit". make it make sense.

AOCapitulator ,
@AOCapitulator@hexbear.net avatar

stop being anticommunists and this problem is resolved

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Tankies aren't real Communists

Sucking the dick of authoritarian regimes does not make you communist

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Hell yeah there's that lib homophobia, 1 milimeter below the surface at all times

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I'm bi but no go ahead, call me a homophobe for making a dick joke :p

mustardman ,

r/asablackman

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Then you should know better than to be homophobic as a substitute for saying anything interesting. Self-reflection would probably help you to not embarass yourself in the future.

randint ,
@randint@lemm.ee avatar

Careful calling those regimes authoritarian. Hexbears like to attack this point by assigning a slightly different definition to authoritarian and then either (a) claim that all governments are "authoritarian" or (b) blame liberals for using this word to demonize socialist states. I once saw someone cite https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Authoritarianism to "prove" that those states are not authoritarian.

ScrivenerX ,

It's worse than just that. They argue that acknowledgement of Stalin's atrocities is Holocaust denial.

They are so scared and insecure they will lash out against anything that slightly challenges their beliefs. If they post sources it will be misreadings of fringe groups, or conveniently ignoring facts. Like how they believe tiananmen square wasn't a big deal because the China killed about 300 people a mile away. Or how Cuba is a utopia even though it's citizens chose to get run over by the coast guard instead of living there.

ThereRisesARedStar ,

They argue that acknowledgement of Stalin's atrocities is Holocaust denial.

No, we argue that equating the bad things the soviet union did to the holocaust is holocaust trivialization, which is a take from mainstream liberal historians. Because the bad things the soviet union did were tiny compared to the holocaust and pretty tame compared to the other Allies.

brain_in_a_box ,

As ever, actual Jewish Holocaust scholars agree with us

https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory

brain_in_a_box ,

Not by "assigning a slightly different definition", just by applying the definition consistently, rather than using the us-foreign-policy standard.

TheBroodian ,

Heaven forbid an actually existing place on the planet actually make some real tangible gains for its people while necessarily suppressing threats

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

There's "threats" and there's "anyone remotely criticising the regime"

There are some tangible gains in these places but also significant losses for the freedoms and rights of their residents

TheBroodian ,

They don't/didn't suppress criticism, that's a myth

ThereRisesARedStar ,

Why does it always go to homophobia with these types

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Idk where the homophobia is, I'm partial to sucking the odd dick myself, just not Mao Zedong or Vladimir Putin :p

ProfessorOwl_PhD ,
@ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net avatar

"umm actually I used it as an insult because it's a good thing!"

How do you people survive the cognitive dissonance necessary to convince yourself you're not being bigoted?

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

"you people"?

Besides, I'm not bigoted because I disagree with your ideology, my way of pointing that out may have been hyperbolic but certainly not bigoted

ProfessorOwl_PhD ,
@ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net avatar

Yeah, you people, people who used homophobic insults about dick sucking but insist it's ok because they're gay/bi/have an LGBT friend.

I agree that you're not bigoted because you disagree with our ideology, but you are definitely bigoted for using bigoted insults to point it out.

Riffraffintheroom ,

Real Communism exists only in the pure and untouched ethereal plane of your mind palace.

Zuzak ,

I support whatever this is so idk what that makes me

https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/1a7752f3-0a4c-463b-8821-483daa5dd3f1.webp

mustardman ,

Celebrating an increase in life expectancy from 30 to 40 years old is not remotely the win you think it is.

Zuzak ,

I'm celebrating the increase in life expectancy from 35 to higher than that of the US, actually, which is the win I think it is.

The point is not the immediate increase in that specific 5 year period, the point is the clear trend of rapid, long term increases after a long period of stagnation, with the pivitol turning point being exactly when the CPC came to power. You're supposed to look at the whole graph.

mustardman ,

China never manipulates data coming out of their authoritarian country so good thing we can trust it. I'm sure their life expectancy is great with all their industrial pollution that regularly causes smog in their inner cities.

Zuzak ,

Here is my source do you have a source that disputes that? Or is your belief based entirely on unfalsifiable faith?

Also curious if you think Chinese life expectancy is still like 35 or what lmao

You may also be interested in what the World Bank, that infamous communist propaganda rag, has to say:

Over the past 40 years, the number of people in China with incomes below $1.90 per day – the International Poverty Line as defined by the World Bank to track global extreme poverty– has fallen by close to 800 million. With this, China has contributed close to three-quarters of the global reduction in the number of people living in extreme poverty.

mustardman ,

I would expect you to understand unless you've read theory.

Zuzak ,

What theory would that be, lol?

mustardman ,

Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand. In Fountainhead, she goes in depth about how Chinese life expectancy statistics are generally made up.

Zuzak ,

Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand

michael-laugh

That's incredible, I honestly did not see that one coming.

So tell me, what's your best guess at what Chinese life expectancy was before the CPC came to power, and what do you think it is now? Do you dispute the numbers from before the communists were even in power? Or do you think they're still living in mud huts?

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

The Fountainhead is a novel about an American architect that has nothing to do with China. They're doing a weird bit, presumably about how evil tankies asking them to read books is cheating.

Zuzak ,

Yeah I got that, at least after they posted a rickroll. Guess being an idiot is a defense mechanism when they realized they had nothing.

mustardman ,

Communism increasing life expectancy!?

Shanghai Stock Exchange: http://english.sse.com.cn/

Beijing Stock Exchange: www.bse.cn

Shenzhen Stock Exchange: https://www.szse.cn/English/index.html

That's more stock exchanges than the US, comrade!

Zuzak ,

Oh, so you consider Deng's reforms to be right-deviationist? Are you a Maoist, then?

Whether you consider the CPC to be communist or not, the fact still remains that they've made a lot of improvements in the lives of the average Chinese person.

mustardman ,

Deng was alive and well when two of those stock exchanges were opened and the whole argument was "look at the improvements only possible under Communism".

How do you say "moving the goalposts" in Mandarin? Actually, no need to answer as you are all suburban petit bourgeois kids from the US.

Zuzak ,

Deng was alive and well when two of those stock exchanges were opened

That's... what I said? Obviously, Deng was the one who implemented economic reforms, such as opening stock exchanges and allowing foreign investment. Some Maoists consider this to be right-deviationist and counter-revolutionary, and that he should've continued more in line with Mao's policies. That's why I asked if you're a Maoist, since you consider his reforms incompatible with socialism.

I'm not sure who's whole argument was "look at the improvements only possible under Communism." China's conditions were much worse off than places like the US, so obviously it's possible to improve conditions to be better than per-revolutionary China (which is not saying much) without communism. It's just that in China's case, it was the communists that did it.

mustardman ,

Mao died in 1976, which is where that life expectancy graph is somewhere in the mid 50s. Super impressive.

Zuzak ,

Over 60, actually. I think that doubling live expectancy over a single generation is, in fact, pretty impressive.

So I take it you're not a Maoist or a Dengist. Can you tell me who you think should've been in power in China instead? The KMT? You can see how much they did on the graph, if you don't find the CPC's numbers impressive then I'm sure you'd hate them even more. The invading Japanese perhaps? The European colonizers? Or maybe you think the Qing dynasty should never have been overthrown.

mustardman ,

Correlation or causation? You know that industrialization increases life expectancy, right?

It's not hard to double your life expectancy when you're starting out with the same life expectancy that existed in the Roman Empire almost 2,000 years prior. Thanks, Mao!

Zuzak ,

Of course I know that, did you not read what I said?

"China's conditions were much worse off than places like the US, so obviously it's possible to improve conditions to be better than per-revolutionary China (which is not saying much) without communism."

It's not hard to double your life expectancy when you're starting out with the same life expectancy that existed in the Roman Empire almost 2,000 years prior. Thanks, Mao!

It really is wild that no other faction was willing to do anything that would increase Chinese life expectancy above that of the Roman Empire, yes. I agree, thanks, Mao!

It's pretty funny that you criticize Deng for implenting economic reforms that led to further industrialization, while also crediting the rise in life expectancy to that very same industrialization.

What even is your ideology? And can you answer my question about who should've come to power instead of the communists?

mustardman ,

So you agree it has nothing to do with communism and you're just trolling around the internet. Got it.

Zuzak ,

I have no idea what thought process led you to post that but ok.

There were a lot of really simple, basic improvements that the peasants in China desperately needed. Anybody could've done what was needed, but nobody else was willing to, because nobody else cared. There was no special technical economic policy that uplifted them, it was just a willingness to address their needs that no other faction possessed.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

No one in China is over 50. If you're over 50 in China they just shoot you, and then they lie and say they didn't.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

My god he can't read a graph. How has our educational system been allowed to fail for this long?

I'm not committed at all to China as the salvation of the communist project, but it's exactly this sort of self-imposed illiteracy and ignorance, and nearly religious faith in the inferiority and duplicity of The Orient that makes me default to distrusting anything negative a cracker says about it.

TwoGems ,
@TwoGems@lemmy.world avatar

You can't tolerate nazis or tankies. Bad reasoning altogether. Look at the state the USA is in right now because we decided to tolerate fascists.

Aabbcc ,

One of those groups is white supremacists and the other wants to stop genociding the global south. That seems like a fine comparison to you?

WheeGeetheCat ,
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

'people posting stuff you consider harmful' is not a simple, black and white issue. Anyone who pretends that allowing all opinions has no consequences is full of shit, anyone who claims that tightly policing opinions has no consequences is full of shit.

Like almost everything in life, you will have to navigate a tenuous balance between these two things and you will never know if you got the balance right. You are just a sack of meat doomed to die.

AngryCommieKender ,

Maybe, maybe not.

We are getting close to massive life extension/ clinical immortality.

WheeGeetheCat ,
@WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works avatar

People were saying that about cryogenics.

Humans have a vast body of knowledge about how things work. It's a shame its dwarfed by the vast body of knowledge we are completely ignorant of.

Much as scientists managed to be surprised that life had evolved to eat garbage in the pacific garbage patch, it seems some will manage to be surprised that when humans eliminate one source of mortality, another inevitably evolves to take advantage of the ever-growing supply of humans.

yukichigai ,
@yukichigai@kbin.social avatar

Yes, let's enter discussion with the literal Nazis so we can try to understand them. There might be nuance to their calls for mass genocide.

Fuck off OP.

Norgur ,

HiTlEr WaSn'T aLl BaD

gullible ,

Hitler wasn’t all bad. After all, he did kill Hitler.

Fried_out_Kombi ,
@Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world avatar

It's funny how people always use play it like "oh, it's just differing opinions" when what they're actually defending is indefensible malarkey like nazis and tankies. They know if they made a meme saying we should "try to understand" nazis and tankies, they'd be downvoted to oblivion. And so they hide behind a shield of "differing opinions".

These cretins have a right to post nazi and tankie shit on their own instances -- them's the beauty of the fediverse. But I also have a right to not want hate speech, genocide denial, and Hitler/Stalin/Mao simps polluting my feed. It's not mere "differing opinions" when one person's opinion is "Holodomor didn't happen, and if it did, the Ukrainians deserved it" or "Holocaust didn't happen, and if it did, the Jews deserved it" or whatever apologia they wanna peddle.

yukichigai ,
@yukichigai@kbin.social avatar

It’s funny how people always use play it like “oh, it’s just differing opinions” when what they’re actually defending is indefensible malarkey like nazis and tankies. They know if they made a meme saying we should “try to understand” nazis and tankies, they’d be downvoted to oblivion. And so they hide behind a shield of “differing opinions”.

There's an actual term for this: Motte and Bailey. One of many hallmarks of disingenuous shitbirds.

OhStopYellingAtMe ,
@OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck that. Defederate all Nazis.

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