Daydreamer

Daydreamer , 1 month ago

Grew up with this stupid interpretation that it refers to some small gate in Jerusalem that camels had to bend down to use or something.

Jesus literally gives the answer in the next sentence:

”Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard it said, “Then who can be saved?” He replied, “What is impossible for mortals is possible for God.”“
‭‭Luke‬ ‭18‬:‭25‬-‭27‬ ‭NRSV‬‬

God can save anyone. And my layman’s interpretation on top of it, no man can save himself.

Daydreamer , 1 month ago

I am a Christian and I think your argument is weak. That Jesus talks of a rich person here is irrelevant, the core of Jesus teaching is that salvation is a gift freely given, but not something we can obtain in our own power.

Daydreamer , 1 month ago

Fair point, what I meant is that in relation to being saved, it’s irrelevant he is rich because only God can save people. In relation to the hardships you’d face with being a Christian and rich it’s valid.

Daydreamer , 1 month ago

It is something you can see the early Christians debating as well.

This is a take from James 2
“”What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith.“
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭14‬-‭18‬ ‭NRSV‬‬

And this is from Romans written by Paul

”There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NRSV‬‬

”because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved.“
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10‬:‭9‬-‭10‬ ‭NRSV‬‬

And from Ephesians (which might have been written by Paul)
”For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast.“
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭8‬-‭9‬ ‭NRSV‬‬

I’m just cherry picking a bit here, plus there was of course much more debate on this topic than what we have documented. My personal thought on is it that, while it may seem wildly unfair, what other alternative than “saved by grace” could there really be that doesn’t result in people saving themselves. If Jesus truly paid the price, what else is there to pay?

Daydreamer , 1 month ago

I agree, but I think making it to sound like Jesus says rich people can’t be saved is a misinterpretation. It seems to me he says it’s hard for rich people to truly follow him and his teaching, and that only God can save people.

Daydreamer , 1 month ago

That’s not my argument at all but it seems you’re not interested in that

Daydreamer , 1 month ago

You’re welcome.

I can understand your viewpoint and while there are verses in the bible that are very clear on Jesus being the “way”, I personally think God is doing everything he can to save as many as possible. And if someone is living in accordance with how God wants us to live I genuinely hope that is enough.

I mean, you also have many people from other religions who dedicate their whole life to knowing God and following his teaching. Sure if the teaching is evil, that’s an issue, but many religions follow the same basic principles and I think there is more to it than just whether you specifically call yourself a Christian. Don’t really have any bible verses to support it, just my personal conviction.