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Prunebutt

@Prunebutt@slrpnk.net

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Prunebutt ,

I'm not watching a youtube video.

Why not?

Prunebutt , (edited )

Unregulated capitalism has never been tried

Yes, it has

Edit: Here's an even better example

Prunebutt ,

Good luck creating a competitor to AWS/Amazon.

Prunebutt ,

The established supplier would just buy the new competitor. If they don't sell, the established supplier would pricedump and eat the loss, since they're already estabished, until the new competitor agrees to be bought.

Prunebutt ,

Guess we're watching different video essays, then. Most are edutainment at best, true. But there are *soy many with cited sources on youtube.

Prunebutt ,

What makes you think unregulated capitalism won't result in these monopolies?

And the Sturlungs?

Prunebutt ,

Sure they're not. ;)

Prunebutt ,

It was the medieval equivalent of anarcho-capitalism.

Prunebutt ,

That's not what anarchists refer to as a state.

A common anarchist definition of the state is: The institutionized power structure which alienates people from the businesses of their daily lives.

If the whole constituency of the community that the militia protects is involved in controlling that militia, that's not state violence anymore.

Prunebutt ,

Anarchist theory is pretty much the opposite of that or "might makes right".

Prunebutt ,

Seems like you read too much Engels.

Prunebutt ,

That only applies to news articles, not political essays. Those have titles not headlines.

Prunebutt ,

Betteridge talks about something fundamentally different. Read the essay, it's really short.

Prunebutt ,

Anarchists don't seek authority, though.

Prunebutt ,

I read your comment, then I read

I'll try to get past my gag reflex at how condescending this is.

again and I thought to myself: "Hell, if that's not the pot calling the kettle black!"

With that much antagonistic priming, any political essay will be interpreted as gondescending bullshit.

Prunebutt ,

If you're that easily swayed into believing something is bullshit, I can see how you got into anarchism.

Well, fuck you and your bad faith style of arguing, too.

I'm not saying the essay is thorough or even a complete rundown of anarchist ideology. It's more a easy-going rebuttal of societal contract theory, based on the presumed everyday life experience of the reader. Suggesting that this essay is a conclusive summary of anarchism and the reason why people "get into anarchism" is about as strawman as it gets.

The essay simply explains one core tenant of anarchism: that humans rely on cooperation and trust on a core fundamental level in everyday situations, even in capitalism. Societal structures collapse once that base-level of cooperation doesn't exist.

How is that "bullshit"?

Prunebutt ,

Lol, and you complain about Graeber writing bullshit. xD

In what way is your "bad person" example any better that the waiting for the bus example Graeber gave?

If humanity was that sellfish, it would have died out about 100000 years ago. You're spouting unscientific bullshit and act as if you're the only reasonable person in the room. Classic lib moment.

Prunebutt ,

No, to councils, not representatives with a free mandate.

Prunebutt ,

That's not what anarchists are advocating, tough.

Anarchists aren't against communities defending themselves. Cops are defendants of capital interests, though.

Edit: it's also not about people being "good" or "bad". It's about limiting the potential of accumulation and monopolization of structural power.

Prunebutt ,

Nice strawman, homie.

Prunebutt ,

Where?

Prunebutt ,

Please read up on what a free mandate is. Especially compared to an imperative mandate.

The gouncils are made up of the people. Their power is restricted by a breathing constitution based on consensus.

Prunebutt ,

I beg your pardon? what is the whole justice system if not the alienation of the community to settle their disputes?

Prunebutt ,

You're describing alienation. You give power to an entity alien to you/the community. You could have mitigated the disturbances in your neighborhood together with your community. Sending the cops wont fix the issue systemically, though. The best they can do is take someone away.

All these services don't need a hierarchical state.

The state is the entity protecting these corporations by enforcing their property rights.

Prunebutt ,

Yeah... libertarian socialism. It's *older that right-wing so-called "libertarianism"/anarcho-capitalism.

Prunebutt ,

You think people will just build roads out of the goodness of their hearts?

No, I think people build roads because they themselves decided in a council that roads needed to be built.

Or pick up trash?

You act as if there aren't whole histories of volunteer work in the world. If you get lost in the alps and mountain rescue saves you, pretty much none of them are getting paid, for example.

Those services have to be performed by somebody who is getting paid, and in order to pay them, you need to levy taxes.

I find you lack in societal creativety sad.

Like imagine applying what you're suggesting to a densely packed population centre like New York. It makes no sense.

Imagine trying to manage such a big society by giving decision power to fewer people who can't possibly fathom the complexity of the system they're trying to control.

Prunebutt ,

No, it's the part where they'll evict you and beat up/down protests, minorities and strikes part.

Prunebutt ,

No, you've decided to learn nothing, today.

Prunebutt ,

Then the cops/sherrif cease to be members of the community, since you've introduced a hierarchy. You always know that the cop has power over you or they wouldn't be a cop.

The "fix" is about as systemic as constantly taking pain meds for when you alway bonk your head on something. It adresses the symptom, not the underlying issue.

Prunebutt ,

You do realize that those were condoned by the state, right? That the state actively enabled racism in the so-called US?

Prunebutt ,

I think we have different definitions of hierarchy here. To me, if I have a higher hierarchical position than you, then you ought to do what I tell you, due to my status. If a community delegates violence to a militia, it doesn't necessarily mean that the militia gets to issue commands on their own.

Prunebutt ,

Councils are made up of interest groups of the population. There are communal councils, work councils of coops, housing councils, garden councils, consumer councils, etc.

Attendance is not mandatory, put highly encouragen through the social structure surrounding these councils. My worker's council cohorts are my friends, my goworkers, etc.

Big decisions are decided on via federation. E.g. every communal council sends of delegates to regional council, which sends delegates to a national council, and so on.

The difference to parliamentary representation is the type of delegation: Representatives have what you call a "free mandate": they only are subject to their own conscience (and the law, of course). If I vote for a representative for their strong stance against puppy butchering, they're free to butcher as many puppies as they like, once they are elected.

Compare that with an imperative mandate (which social anarchists propose): Your position as a delegate depends on you carrying out the will of the body that elected you. If you defy that imperative, you lose your position as a delegate.

Prunebutt ,

Why do you think that those changing circumstances can't be handled in a federated manner?

I'm using the proper definition of alienation.

Free mandates make the system succeptible to lobbyism/corruption. The current system is so great that we're currently in the process of eliminating our foundation of life on the planet.

I don't think that people will be annoyed by a council system. If they are, they can abstain. But IMHO, the reason people are so fed up with politics is their lack of agency. People are in general very interested inspolitics as long as it concerns them and they have agency. Councils should alleviate both of those issues.

You think millions of people are going to just harmoniously self-govern? No.

Why not? Remember that the sa?e thing was basically said of the peasantry in feudal times: that people are incapable of being in control of politics. There's no reason to suggest that the current system is the best it can get.

4 years or longer is one hell of a lot of time to screw things up. If you're only participating in democracy once every four years, that's not much of a democracy. And don't gst me started on the lack of democracy in economics.

Prunebutt ,

While that part is much televised, I can't say that I've ever seen an officer do any of that. I HAVE seen police perform a core function of keeping the peace between individuals on more then one occasion.

You understand that this is pretty much nothing but anecdotal evidence, right? Maybe ask a minority or precarious workers how they see the cops. The peace police keep is mostly a fiction.

but besides stopping strikes these all seem like things your neighborhood "us vs them" group might do.

Not if the militia is delegated by the community. The community wont order its' militia by consensus to beat up part of the community.

Point being, by and large community policing is a standard function of society and I think it's the standard function of police EXCEPT perhaps in large metros where police are enforcers outside their own neighborhoods.

That's not the role modern police took in a historical context. It has been created to maintain private property relations and that still is its' core function.

Prunebutt ,

fdafgood thing that's not what I'm aiming for then? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Prunebutt ,

Isn't that Mario's own Burger joint, judging by the logo over the door?

Prunebutt ,

They're not? Doesn't that make them less effective?

Prunebutt ,

Less effective as the intended use of a CAPTCHA. Not as AI training.

Prunebutt ,

u fr?
Captchas were used for bot protection, originally.

Prunebutt ,

Don't you mean "exits" the building?

Prunebutt ,

*Slaps forehead* now I get it.

Prunebutt ,

The meme specifies "industrial". I don't think any industrial farmer has any love for their animals.

Prunebutt ,

German term for projector.

Prunebutt ,

FYI: What you call a "Beamer" in German you would call a "projector" in english. I would edit the post, or else people will think you want to set up star trek technology. ;)

Prunebutt , (edited )

Are you the same person that always claims they know very nice police officers whenever someone says "ACAB"?

Prunebutt ,

I fully believe that there are copsswho are nice people. But systemic issues don't go away by individuals not being dicks.

Prunebutt ,

I guess someone never used ISO 216.

Prunebutt ,

Ad posters on the street are usually A2 to A0

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