Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

novibe

@novibe@lemmy.ml

This profile is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.

novibe ,

Hummmm… I can think of a couple more historical events that follow a similar pattern…

novibe ,

wat

Like out of all arguments against a socialist state, saying it’s like cancer which is like capitalism is… dumb? Like how? Which socialist state metastasised and “grew” without natural limits? What even is this argument?

novibe ,

You may disagree with the idea of the necessity of a socialist state, but saying it’s “not a thing” is just ignorant.

What even is socialism to you?

novibe ,

But capital that stops dies, and if you are outcompeted you stop. So you always have to do better than everyone else. And capital has to accumulate exponentially to keep growing, and not stop and die.

The mechanics of the system make sustainable growth impossible. Tweaking the surface of the system will never change that core.

novibe ,

I think that definition of socialism is insufficient. It sounds like an end-goal. I thought we were all communists. We wanted the dissolution of all hierarchy, of the state and of classes, of money and work.

Socialism was then just born as a way to define what comes right after capitalism, and right before communism.

We can still all agree that those are two different socialisms in themselves. It won’t look the same right after capitalism from right before communism.

But getting back to it, how does your socialism maintain itself without markets? How does it protect itself? How does it function without regulations? You imply a state with your definition and don’t even realise it.

novibe ,

I do understand all that. But explain this, how are all these commodity producing worker owned business regulated? How do they operate on a market? Who sets and controls this market? Who ensures collective property of the means of production?

Socialism as an economic model with the workers owning the means of production kinda still has commodity production, money etc. otherwise the whole concept of a collectively owned business makes no sense.

Unless you advocate for the complete atomization of groups into self-sufficient cells that have no organisation between them, to me you are still describing a state.

Also, can’t workers be in direct control of their means of production in a socialist state? What mechanically or physically impedes that? Like coops were a major part of the soviet model, right?

How long do you envision the transition from capitalism to socialism/communism to take then?

(Also also, Marx did talk a lot about “lower stage” communism or socialism later in life. Also about how a revolution could move towards a completely free worker’s state instead of going through an authoritarian phase - he had correspondence with a revolutionary peasant woman in Russia about this it’s really interesting, if I find it I’ll share).

novibe ,

Elysium and countless other sci-fis. Masses living in mad max squalor and a handful of thousands living in sci-fi luxury.

novibe ,

But using a VPN is not illegal in China… why would you even have to explain why you’re using one?

novibe ,

Lmao South China Morning Post and Radio Free Asia are literally propaganda mouthpieces for the CIA

Neoliberal adaptation (lemmy.dbzer0.com)

If the Twitter/X thing teaches you one thing, let it be this: Twitter was a neoliberal place. Then Elon Musk made it into X, a fascist place. Once again, neoliberalism laid the foundations of fascism. But that’s not the (whole) lesson… Neoliberal folks are still using X, calling it Twitter to make themselves feel better, and...

novibe ,

Yes. Real leftists have no loved ones.

The only love we need is our love for Marx, may peace be upon him.

novibe ,

That’s how it works in anime right? We do a tournament and the survivor will be the strongest leftist. They’ll be able to defeat all fascists by themselves. Truly a masterful plan.

novibe ,

Because of the misdirection that exists around “left and right” wing politics.

There is really only one relevant axis when it come to right and left wing. Pro-capitalism and anti-capitalism.

The center and the extreme right both seek to protect capital at all costs. One believes “decorum” and “the structures of power” are necessary to maintain capitalism, one believes an extreme restructuring of power is necessary to “save” capitalism.

They disagree with the means, but they agree with the ends.

And the center will always give way to the extreme right when things get hairy enough. They fear losing some power, but they fear most losing ALL power…

novibe ,

Your lack of political awareness is part of the problem.

The neoliberal project was a direct response to the fall of the USSR. Europe only enjoyed social welfare for so long by being right next to the USSR.

As colonies of the US empire, Europe was allowed privileges to contrast and compare against the USSR.

After the USSR fell, social welfare fell. Neoliberalism kicked in.

There was no real left in Europe after WW2 and the Marshall Plan. Only social democrats, which really are right-wing since they defend capitalism.

China is far far ahead when it comes to developing society for the people. The government there is spending trillions investing in infrastructure, health, education, housing.

They are allowing all the big housing developers go bust and buying up their assets and capital. They recently declared housing to be a human right and started decommodifying it.

You can check any major city in China nowadays and they all have much better quality of life than any comparable city. That meaning major metropolises in developing countries (so places like São Paulo, Buenos Aires, México City, Johannesburg, Jakarta etc.). Housing is much cheaper in China, salaries are higher, cost of living is lower…

China is indeed out-capitalisming the west, but they are doing so by being socialists.

The joke that China is winning the international capitalism game because at least all their ruling party has read Marx is… probably true lol.

novibe , (edited )

When capitalism. That’s when.

Edit: to clarify, it wasn’t much better before capitalism. But it was less all-encompassing. Feudalism was a shitty structure, worse even than capitalism tbh. But it was much easier to escape it. Not just in the “survivalist hippie camp” that still exists now. But even in everyday life. The system wasn’t shaping every facet of human existence. Only production relations (which is the big one yes). But capitalism has shaped everything around us. Our places of work, sure, but our personal lives. Our inner lives. Everything has been commodified. Mental health, religion, wellness, friendships, love and relationships, families, sickness, children etc. etc. etc… That is the main reason capitalism is worse than anything before it. No other system had the capacity to destroy the planet. None. To destroy all life in it. All in the name of profit. An immaterial, formless concept. Not even a real thing. And there’s not much we can do it seems. I mean there is, and I think it’s pretty clear. But I bet even that gets commodified soon. Bring on the politicians/capitalists death match reality game shows I guess…

novibe ,

That’s because the Chinese experience was very peculiar. When American and European investors and industry giants went abroad to outsource manufacturing, they brought in the capital and left with the profits. But the capital, and technology or knowledge, never spread in the colonies or neo-colonies. When China “opened up”, they were real clever about it. They said: “sure, you can open your factories here where there is an abundance of cheap labor. But in exchange, we want the knowledge and technology”. And since opening up China to foreign capital has been the wet dream of capitalists and proto-capitalists for the past several hundreds of years, they accepted the deal. So China was left with the know-how to be able to set-up their own national industries. And the profits of exporting manufactured goods was used for strategic industries and infrastructure, unlike most colonial and neo-colonial experiences where the profits are just pocketed by a national bourgeoisie.

novibe ,

There sure are billionaires in China. But they don’t control the political structure like the billionaires do in the US. They are controlled by the political structure. When has it been the last time the US or EU executed a billionaire for harming the environment?

novibe ,

Holy shit… bro please don’t be racist like this in public. You should keep this shit to your brain and feel deep shame for it. No one ever taught you that?

The Chinese didn’t break any laws or “steal” anything. China had different copyright laws, and western companies agreed to share technology as part of their agreements with the CPC to operate in the SEZs. If they didn’t want China to have the tech, they could’ve just not taken the deals and go build their factories in India, or Bangladesh, or Malaysia etc.

And what you describe as the “Chinese mentality” is just literally capitalist logic, aka, psychopathy. It’s projection. The Chinese are winning, so you assume they are the apex capitalists, the Patrick Batemans. But you couldn’t be more wrong. They are winning by finding a different game, and playing it better. The rest of the world is following their lead, and your place on the board is soon to be extinct. So you panic and turn to dumbass things like racism.

novibe ,

I think you mean if the US had not become the global capitalist empire after the decline of the British Empire.

novibe ,

That’s not a wild conspiracy, that’s just how capitalism works? There is always collusion between capitalists to suppress labour power. Like we have repeated historical exemples of this. And yeah, through the same historical examples, get ready for the rise of fascism lol

novibe ,

After the lease period you should be able to buy the product at a discount tho… so no, it’s not a lease.

novibe ,

You’re right. There are no “leases” where I’m from, they’re just rental agreements, so the image I had of leases was indeed wrong lol

novibe ,

It really doesn’t matter… there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Just use what’s more practical or better in any way for you.

novibe ,

There are no “good” brands under capitalism. The issue is not of the moral failing of individual companies. We can’t solve the issues of capitalism by “consuming” right.

You think fairphone have no slave-labour rare-earth metals in them?

novibe ,

It doesn’t matter if they are “bad” or not bro. The issue is the system. And it’s not a matter of morality. I don’t give a fuck if it’s “evil” or “good”. Even in a perfect capitalist world where all companies were “fair”something, we would still be destroying the planet with climate change and exploiting the labour of people in the third-world.

And who cares about “perfect”? I only care about meaningful change that helps not destroy the planet. Buying a fairphone is not it.

The only thing that will help is a fucking revolution. So the BEST thing any of us can do is to radicalise those around us and organize.

novibe ,

You are very naive if you think fairphone is trying to “do good”. They are, like every single corporation under capitalism, trying to make a profit. They found a niche and are carving their market share within it. If they could, they would become Apple. If you don’t think so, again, you’re being naive.

novibe ,

Cause capitalism was born with the Big Bang and will die with the heat death of the universe right buddy? Lmao.

novibe ,

I don’t think you understood me. What I mean is “which product do I consume under capitalism” is a useless question. No consumption under capitalism will lead to a better world. Buying from fairphone or apple will make 0 difference to what actually matters.

Revolution is not a state of consumption. And surviving under capitalism won’t make revolution less likely either. So it’s a false dichotomy. Buying apple instead of fairphone won’t make a revolution less likely.

novibe ,

I buy what I believe will be best for me. I don’t feel bad to buy from x company instead of y. I just buy it and don’t give a fuck.

I am VERY aware that my individual consumption actions will have 0 impact on anything.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • random
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines
    •