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When are incremental games genuinely fun?

I'm sure most of us are aware that a lot of the mechanics of incremental games rely on things like skinner boxes to make us want to keep playing by just promising us future positive moments, rather than just giving us positive moments.

Where do you think the line is, between genuine fun vs just being manipulated into wanting to keep playing? Or is there no difference?

Additionally, awareness of video game addiction is pretty important within the genre. The community has a lot of young people who could be harmed if playing games long enough into the night as to disrupt their sleep cycle, for example. To that end I've been considering adding a notice to my future games when the game has been actively played a lot, that mentions video games addiction along with some resources to help. When do you think it'd make sense to display this? I was thinking about showing it if the player has been active within the game during 6 of the last 8 hours.

cardboardempress Global Mod ,
cardboardempress avatar

I've played games that would, while running full screen, also show the current time and included an alarm you could use in case you got a little too buried in it.

I found them both effective.

When it comes to manipulation in media, games with subscriptions or MTX are more manipulative than games without simply because the owners want more of your money. It's the difference between, "Here is our game, how much money will you give us over x time? What if we tweaked this gameplay, and made this look nicer, and used FOMO while selling this cosmetic item, and made this piece of kit a today-only 'bargain'?" versus "Here is my game, like it or don't but it's already made." The latter feels like a more authentic piece of media than the former, which feels entirely extractive.

kopi-pasted ,
kopi-pasted avatar

Hello, I'm one of those young people mentioned in the post and I'm partially responsible for our current topic.

My take is that the distinction between "fun" and "motivational manipulation" is blurry in a lot of forms of entertainment, and this blurriness is significantly more apparent in incremental games compared to other forms of media. As much as I don't like to admit it, I think that most modern games (especially abstract ones such as The Prestige Tree) mostly consist of "motivational manipulation".

That being said, I still think there is still fun to be had in this genre. My personal belief is that the fun in incremental games comes from the organic (or at least not tightly forced) discovery of the intricacies of the mechanical systems these games present. The problem is that very few games manage to handle this discovery well. I've also found interacting with the communities surrounding these games to be an enjoyable experience.

As to the notice, I think it's an okay idea but I don't have any strong preference on any one condition (there are a lot of factors to take into account). My primary doubt is whether the notice will work well since people may be reluctant to seek help and could easily switch to an equally manipulative entertainment outlet that doesn't contain a similar notice.

thepaperpilot OP Admin ,
thepaperpilot avatar

I think it's interesting that within the community, games kinda get treated as if the more abstract they are, the more "pure" they are, like a game is less incremental if it puts effort into anything apart from the gameplay itself. Narrative, graphics, and sound design are almost treated as negatives.

I was going to lead into saying that the "pure" games are probably more likely to fall into manipulation rather than genuine fun, but as I was writing it I thought about how loot boxes, which are obviously manipulative, use flashy effects to make them feel more rewarding. So I don't think it's the presence of those things that makes a game more genuine fun either. Honestly I just have a hard time finding where the line is, beyond "I know it when I see it".

thepaperpilot OP Admin ,
thepaperpilot avatar

As far as the notice goes, I'm not going to kid myself and pretend it'll solve video games addiction for anyone that plays the game. I'd be happy if it just increased awareness tbh.

Mango ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/578d7ca5-31ad-465c-8cd5-e8defaf33fb4.webm

thepaperpilot OP Admin ,
thepaperpilot avatar

I hope y'all don't mind the more serious/critical topic of this post. I plan on keeping most of them positive, but I think this is an important topic to discuss within the genre.

slazer2au ,

Idle Dyson sphere.

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