One Friday afternoon, Gary called the engineering staff together and announced that he would give them all a raise over the weekend. On Monday, when they returned to work, contractors began raising the building to make room in the basement for a new Digital Equipment Corporation VAX 11/750 computer system. After several weeks, supported by heavy wooden beams and house jacks, the engineers' desks were five feet higher.
was cp/m really that good? never used it and all of the media I've seen of it looks like just another variant of dos. i grew up using dos, and I use the shell for a lot of stuff at work all the time these days, but i think most people prefer to interact via a gui
Because DOS is a stolen illegal copy of CP/M, but with a few features removed. And yes CP/M was way better, and had for instance multitasking way before MS-DOS. And it had filesystem safety, the lack of which caused decades of security nightmares on PC.
Gary Kildall was so depressed he committed suicide, because Bill Gates (Microsoft) stole his OS and used it and his mothers position in IBM to undercut him, and he couldn't do anything about it.
PS:
I can write that Bill Gates and Microsoft stole it without fear of repercussions from either, because that's already been decided in a court of law decades ago.
Gary Kildall's lawyer later stated Gary Kildall lacked the tenacity Bill Gates had, because he didn't sue based on same lawyers legal advice, that software probably wasn't legally protected by copyright.
If you don't know, QDOS was copied from CP/M, and Microsoft bought QDOS and relabeled it MS-DOS, and sold it to IBM as PC-DOS. Main difference being that Microsoft removed the few safety features that were present in CP/M, causing decades of nightmares with bad security and viruses.
No it's not, I may remember that part wrong, it was speculated to be homicide, but his wife told he was very depressed about Microsoft using his own OS to win the contract with IBM.
Lemmy isn’t the best place to make up stories about your programming pedigree… it’s kind of a thing here.
Not that I have any way of proving that to you, but I'm not, I just couldn't honestly remember the last time I was typing BASIC code into my Apple II+ (and TRS-80 at the mall) , since I've been coding for over forty years, they all tend to kind of run together after a while. I usually let the compiler set me straight.
Not sure why you're digging this hole, but okay... You claim to have 40 years experience, a retired software dev.... BASIC has little relevance to the article OP posted... It doesn't make much sense to post a hello world loop, further you can search for this loop and find thousand of syntax accurate examples, which any engineer would do normally, due to the PTSD of posting on public forums and being ripped to shreds for the most minor of typo...
Why would you claim to run two lines through a compiler to check it? I mean there are endless interpreters and plenty of IDEs that would have caught the mistake as well.
BASIC is a high level educational language to promote CS in the 80s and 90s, What does posting this here, and then misusing semi-colons, do to give you any credibility. Why not Lisp, COBOL or Fortran? Is it because your trying to steal credibility like Microsoft did? Make it make sense!
And finally what in the world is this CC signature. Your on Lemmy, the not-for-profit decentralized forum. Creative Commons licensing is for scenarios that involve commerce. Everything anyone posts here is free to use because there really is no way to enforce copyright on content where the owner cannot be identified and no single entity owns the federation. Unless Cosmic Cleric is your legal name...
You're the one publically accusing me of lying on a public forum. You'll excuse me if I defend myself.
BASIC has little relevance to the article OP posted… It doesn’t make much sense to post a hello world loop
Agree on the relevance, disagree on the makes much sense. I posted it as a comedic post, not a serious one (what the kids these days call a "shit post"). I mean, the post subject was "Fifty Years of the Personal Computer Operating System", so commented with old computer programming code that those who were around at the time when it all started would recognize.
I typed that code into many a TRS-80 computer at the mall in my time back then.
further you can search for this loop and find thousand of syntax accurate examples, which any engineer would do normally, due to the PTSD of posting on public forums and being ripped to shreds for the most minor of typo…
Except when they are lazy to do so, or are waiting at LAX to pick someone up and you're quickly doom scrolling browsing Lemmy while watching for an arriving passenger you have to pick up.
Why would you claim to run two lines through a compiler to check it?
You're being too literal in an attempt to win an Internet argument. My point was that I can't remember every last syntax for every language I've ever learned, through forty years, so I let the compiler tell me when I've forgotten something or got something wrong. That's the only point I was making, that I let the compiler assist me in remembering syntax when I forget it.
I mean there are endless interpreters and plenty of IDEs that would have caught the mistake as well.
Yes, and what I just said for compiler was also meant for the IDE. Way back in the day we had character based text editors and we used compilers for error output, there were no IDEs. But throughout my career I used both the IDE and compiler to assist me in remembering syntax. I've also been known to use a javadoc lookup or a search through online sources to remember things as well.
BASIC is a high level educational language to promote CS in the 80s and 90s, What does posting this here, and then misusing semi-colons, do to give you any credibility. Why not Lisp, COBOL or Fortran? Is it because your trying to steal credibility like Microsoft did? Make it make sense!
Again, I posted it as a humorous comment, not serious, and I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition (/queueMontyPython) by someone who wants to prove themselves against someone else. It was just meant as a joke, that's all.
Why not Lisp, COBOL or Fortran? Is it because your trying to steal credibility like Microsoft did? Make it make sense!
I don't know Lisp or Fortran, but I do know a tiny bit COBOL (I just missed having to work with punch cards, etc.). I know (in no particular order) BASIC, C, C++, Java, C#, LUA (WoW addons AutoShoutOut, and xtremeunitbuttons), AM (propriertary 4GL), PowerBuilder, QuickBASIC, Apple Basic (still miss my Apple II+ sometimes). BTW, you forgot Pascal, which I knew a little of back then as well.
Go through my commenting history, it'll attest to my profession (if you're being intellectually honest about deciding what you read).
I stand by what I've said in each and every comment.
And finally what in the world is this CC signature. Your on Lemmy, the not-for-profit decentralized forum. Creative Commons licensing is for scenarios that involve commerce. Everything anyone posts here is free to use because there really is no way to enforce copyright on content where the owner cannot be identified and no single entity owns the federation. Unless Cosmic Cleric is your legal name…
I've already posted enough comments about that just today actually. If you really want an answer to that question, go search through my comments for today. I would just add to what you would read if you do, that at this point I also have a morbid curiosity about all the people getting bent out of shape over me adding that link, and the interesting responses I'm getting from them.
We done? We're both wasting too much time for me just admiting publically that I was just trying to do a joke comment and forgot the correct syntax that I had not used in decades, while commenting from a cell phone, doom scrolling, at a public place, while keeping an eye out for someone to arrive/meet.
Yikes, ok I can buy the shit posting. I think it's fair to say it didn't go over well. Most of the Lemmy user base is your age, who remember the dial-up days of the Internets. Most of us grew up with the Trash 80 and C64s and Apples in the classroom, which is why we are drawn to the Fediverse. So don't be surprised when you get brigaded over a BASIC syntax error, because from our perspective it came across like a 22 year old who was pretending to know what the old days were like, and making an irrelevant comment on a post about a rather tragic part of computing history. Fair enough, we done.
Truly appreciate the pull back/courtesy. Sincerely don't mean to continue the argument, but I gotta just say this last one thing, just because I'm feeling a little beat up here on Lemmy, again ...
So don’t be surprised when you get brigaded over a BASIC syntax error, because from our perspective it came across like a 22 year old who was pretending to know what the old days were like, and making an irrelevant comment on a post about a rather tragic part of computing history. Fair enough, we done.
You know, instead of just assuming negatively, you could have taken what I said at face value, instead of double-downing on your attack. You publically called me out as a liar on a public forum, without even having done one Internet search yourself on my name, though you chastised me on not doing a search myself. That's a pretty severe thing to do to another human being at an online social gathering.
It doesn't do well for Lemmy if nobody wants to ever comment on anything, especially if they make a simple mistake while doing so, because they'll get ripped apart by others, the same others who would probably wonder later on why there's not enough posts/comments activity on Lemmy. People's default 'perspective' is negative here, and we're supposed to be building a more friendlier than Reddit place here.
On top of that, someone else had replied about an error code because of the semi-colons, and I had replied back with a joke reply about the compiler accepting it (joke being BASIC is interpreted), so I was hoping that would have been enough to signal comedy (even if bad comedy) and make this a non-situation.
You know, the real irony is, when I couldn't remember to keep or remove the semi-colons (I really did take ten seconds to try and remember, and then got pissed off at myself for getting old), I finally thought "Fuck it, I'll leave them in", as I'd figure that they'd augment the comedic shit-postiness even more, as well as my previous statement of not wanting to take the time to search as I was busy looking for someone.
Most of the Lemmy user base is your age, who remember the dial-up days of the Internets.
I remember my Apple 300 baud modem well, and dialing into many BBS. Also, CompuServe (never tried Prodigy though). And of course we all did AOL.
Anyway, I'm done/exhausted, as now I've had to defend my programming career/views on both a certain video searching technique, as well as BASIC coding (and as well as the Falklands Las Malvinas Islands). Lemmy is a fucking tough place to socialize at. 😜
My response to the syntax error was a joke. Which is why it's formatted as a console log error. I didn't think much of it, other than I didn't understand why it was relevant to OPs post. Then he responded to my comment with some sillyness about running it through a compiler, which further didn't make sense. But I was like whatever... It was when he started saying that he's too old to remember syntax and how hes been programming for forty years and all this reference his experience with old tech. It smelled of some juvenile attempt to pretend to be something he's not. Which is why I commented about this not being the place to do that because Lemmy has a large population of folks that could easily see through this. At this point I was still pretty passive and didn't think much of it.
It's when he wrote the whole I'm too old to remember syntax from all the programming hes been doing for 40 years since his days on blah blah. This is when I called him out.
So he responds about his tough day, and how it was just a shit post joke and I said fine, fair enough, we all have bad days. I was willing to put it to bed and call it.
Finally he writes this wall of text about, despite being on the internet since it inception, how people on Lemmy are being so mean to him and how I could just think more positively and on and on. Yeah I over reacted to improper syntax, that's it...
Again, I am not calling him out for being bad at programming. It's not bad to make a mistake in code, AT ALL. The very best programmer make syntax errors all the time. That's just part of it. I am calling him out for trying to justify a comment that has no relevance to the post, that was only made to draw attention to himself, when multiple people called out the error he goes into a long deflection about how he has all this experience and makes excuses and tries to make it seem like he was victimized.
This is a small community and he does this often in other posts. It gets tiring seeing this nonsense, which I didn't say anything about until after started with all the "back in my day" stuff. I don't think it's an over reaction to try to humble someone who struggles with admitting fault, (not about programming, but that he is capable of making a mistake, in any context). It's a lesson we all should learn, especially someone who is over forty. If this makes me insane, then so be it.
Correct, people comment bad jokes all the time. This is completely irrelevant as I didn't call him out for the bad joke. I made a bad joke in response to his bad joke.
I called him out when a number of people corrected his bad joke (including down voting him), and he tried to justify the bad joke with more bad jokes and deflections about how he just couldn't remember syntax and he has all this experience. It's a problem he has with admitting fault, not about his joke, but how in making the "joke" he tried to prove to people he didn't really make a mistake.
He did this on another post the same day when he claimed a link was paywalled. It wasn't, multiple people said it wasn't, and he insisted it was for him, only to later, after multiple back and fourths say that he has bad eyes and that the site needs to be made better. I bring this up, because he even brought it up here.
So again, I have no issue with bad jokes, I have no issues with bad programming. I have an issue with people who want to pretend like they are perfect and it's everyone else who is at fault.
What? He said he didn't remember? How was he avoiding responsibility? And then there was another mistake that he also admitted to with the paywall? He's not pretending to be perfect, what more do you want? I'm imagining the only thing you'd be satisfied with is a 7 minute apology with a ukulele.
He said he ran it through compiler and it didn't complain (which he later claimed was sarcasm), then he said he couldn't remember the syntax because of all the different languages he used over the past forty years "That’s how long I’ve been programming, so long that I can’t even remember the syntax anymore."
and then went on a long rant about all the computers he used as a kid.
He didn't admit the mistake on the paywall he said "Young webpage developers designing UI for younger aged eyes, and not thinking that when people get older they increase the font size of everything on their device so they can see still, which affects the layout of everything being displayed."
He never once said he was wrong in fact he double down on it with "I’m not going to change my original comment, and I still stand by it. If they obfuscate the way of closing the pop-ups by making the close button so small and insignificant compared to the other likewise texting around it, to me that still paywalling, as they’re trying to trick people into signing up for an account to read the article."
Again, I am not worried about the mistakes. He also certainly doesn't need to apologize. A simple acknowledgement without deflecting into some long excuse as to why it's not his fault or he's just so experienced that he got the details mixed up would be fine. Also again, if this was a one off example, I wouldn't have said anything, it's a trend I've seen him do a few times on a few different posts and it rubbed me the wrong way so I decided to call him out on it, like many others have also done.
You calling out his programming experience is just so dumb. It's totally reasonable for someone to not remember all the details from work decades ago. He went off on all these details about his career because you were interrogating him lmao
And about the paywall ... I mean he is right about those big-ass popups being such a UI nightmare they could be a barrier for some people. You're just mad he didn't edit his comment?
You're correct, it is very reasonable for someone not remember details about a language that was used in schools for education decades ago, that he himself said he played with as a kid, as I have done myself. AGAIN it's not that he didn't remember, it's that anyone who has worked as a programmer for decades, and I mean without exception, would ever in any circumstance post that code from memory. Because anyone who has done any coding knows you only remember syntax when you have been practicing in it daily. No one remembers the syntax to BASIC, it isn't a useful language. You would just search for "hello world" loop and you would find endless examples you could copy pasta. Which he himself says he likes to do with that creative commons nonsense he tags to every post.
Sure pop-ups suck. Sure interface design needs to be better, it's not the point. The point is he claimed that the site was paywalled, he was wrong, that's okay. He was told by multiple people he was wrong, including one person who went as far as to post a screenshot. Even after all that effort from the community he doesn't just say "ah my mistake, I see it now", he goes into an excuse of bad UI design, even though no one else had the problem. It simple, just say you made a mistake without making excuses. Really easy to do, and way less effort than this whole deflection thing he does.
He's a shit poster, who bullshits people because he doesn't want to be wrong. I am under no illusion anything will change with this guy. His shitty behavior continues today just as it has in the past. I just made the mistake of saying something about it.
So you're mad he didn't research his joke properly? Why do you care so bad if he "deflects", he's clearly just concerned about the website being difficult to access? Just let the comments that show it's not paywalled stay up, and let his concerns stay up as well. It's not a big deal. You're acting like a bully comment cop.
No, yet again, I am saying when he was corrected and down voted by multiple people he didn’t just acknowledge his mistake, he went on to try to pretend to be something he is not, and try to save face by exaggerating and deflecting. He is not concerned with anything but being right.
He is wasting peoples time who have voluntarily engaged with him. He is not contributing to the discussion and making flippant lazy comments.
I can spend my time how I choose and if I choose to have a discussion about his comments then that’s my decision. I have not bullied anyone, I just made two comments about this to him. Haven’t engaged with him since.
However you have said I am over reacting, being stupid and now bullying, because of my opinion of someone’s behavior. All the while you dismiss my opinion, disregard my points and apologize for his behavior like his mother. If it’s no big deal why are you still talking about this. You’re the only person still concerned. This ended two days ago for me.
Why do you care so much if you think his comments are lazy and flippant? Just ignore them? I'm disregarding your points because none of what you've said justifies your "call out". If he said something that was wrong, and a lot of people posted evidence to the contrary... that's a win for truth right? Why are you trying to demand he admit he's wrong? It just feels like a weird power trip.
And you are mad he didn't research his joke properly 😂 that is an actual point you made.
I see what you mean now. I should just ignore it. I shouldn’t have called him out. He did nothing wrong. In fact he made the post more entertaining and his references were really fun. I was demanding him to do things this whole time and that was wrong of me.
I was so mad he didn’t research his joke, because you know jokes don’t really need to make sense. I was being silly. You were right this whole time. Thanks for setting me straight over these last couple of days. I’m so stupid.
