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Shareni

@Shareni@programming.dev

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Shareni ,

Or install MX and have both systemd and sysvinit instead of having systemd packages banned.

Shareni ,

C-x M-c M-butterfly

Shareni ,

No self respecting emacs person would ever bind a command to C-x M-c

A magnetized needle? Perfectly fine.

Butterflies causing cosmic rays to precisely flip bits? Don't see anything wrong with that.

A syntactically and ergonomically incorrect Emacs shortcut? Now that's going too much! Nobody would ever use that instead of M-x butterflies.

Picard facepalm

Shareni ,

and I wanted a way to quickly switch between Miryoku and standard QWERTY. The best way to do this that I could come up with was to bind a special key on my keyboard to toggle kmonad on and off.

You couldn't think of to use layers?

Shareni ,

I haven't really had a reason to distro-hop on any of the systems I installed Debian on.

MX has entered the chat

Shareni ,

NixOS users try to not to tell everyone at every opportunity to install NixOS challenge (impossible)

Shareni ,

It can if the code is not delivered to the customers. For example you can take GPL code and run it on your server without ever making your changes public.

Shareni ,

windows doesn't do this

Have you used Windows?

Shareni ,

No, that's controlling what your users do with their device. Also it should be a separate license

AGPL deals with servers.

Shareni ,

Installs proprietary WiFi drivers on Debian

PROPRIETARY OS

Shareni ,

So you enjoy using Windows?

Shareni ,

AGPL is mostly only needed for server software.

And GPL V3 is only needed for hardware products that come with Linux. So why should it be GPL and AGPL shouldn't?

Shareni ,

we need to switch Linux to GPLv3

You'd need to get literally every Linux copyright holder to agree to it, including the major corpos like Intel.

I don't think there is any other way.

There's always socialism, and I think there's a better chance for that to come to be than for Intel to limit itself over some FOSS ideals.

Are you asking why the FSF doesn't propose to license Linux under AGPLv3?

No I'm asking why do you think V3 shouldn't be a separate license, but AGPL should. GPL V3 expands what GPL affects by a lot. V2 is only relevant for derivatives and showing your code, V3 is relevant for anything that might restrict your usage of that code. Meanwhile AGPL only changes when you need to show your code, right?

IANAL, but I'd love to know how v3 interacts with other reasons for locking down devices. They've limited it to exclude obvious examples like modifying medical devices and voting machines, but do parental controls cause the device to be operated in a manner that restricts the user's GPL freedoms? Just imagine this insanity: stop your child from installing apps on their phone - get sued by someone who doesn't understand why children can't consent to sex with adults.

Shareni ,

Yes, it’s hard, but it was probably way easier in 2007 when GPLv3 came out.

I can't find concrete info, but I think anyone who contributed to the kernel is a copyright holder or something along those lines.

Linus Torvalds never wanted to do it anyway, though. Who's to say it wouldn't have crippled Linux.

Yeah, because it's a different license.

I don’t see how socialism would get rid of proprietary software.

  • What's the point of proprietary software? To make more profit.
  • Why do manufacturers lock down your devices? To make more profit through, for example, forcing you to keep adware and spyware installed on your device.

If your goal is to satisfy the needs of your population, and not only the wants of those in power, why would you limit the sharing of knowledge? Copyright and patent laws are a product of capitalism, not something inherent.

Does Intel make devices that come with the Linux kernel?

No clue, but they're in main.c.

I think the FSF considers Tivoization to be a bug of GPLv2.

They also think the Affero clause should be in the v3, but that was apparently going too far for the corpos, and so it's in a separate license (based on your link).

I’m not an expert, but I’m pretty sure it just means that you should be able to install another operating system. Parental controls can be turned off by the user, so I see no issue there.

It might be a bit more complicated than that.

When people distribute User Products that include software under GPLv3, section 6 requires that they provide you with information necessary to modify that software.

source

So the question is whether giving someone a device to use is considered conveying it; is a shop selling you a phone the same as your parents giving it to you? Good luck on trying to find it out through v3, it just gave me a headache.

If you are talking about Richard Stallman, then he doesn’t believe that anymore.

Didn't that post come after the first real media backlash, when he had to quit from the FSF? Good timing for someone to finally explain that to a dude in his 60s.

The organization that sues people for GPL violations is probably The Software Freedom Conservancy.

It was a joke, but FSF did sue.

Shareni ,

I still know that the prayer spoke about vi and emacs in harmony

In evil we trust

Shareni ,

I install Linux.

Shareni ,

why were things like snap and flatpak created?

If you're using a stable distro, the repo will end up with programs that are years out of date. So instead of compiling manually, you use flatpak/snap/appimage/nix/guix as an extra package manager. They also allow devs to release cross-distro packages.

I barely understand docker

although bloated.

Shareni ,

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it doesn't even come with snap installed. Idk why you're getting downvoted

Shareni ,

Just wait for an American to tell you how it's easier to use fractions with imperial. I've legit seen them say shit like 3/8 of an inch is easier to think about than 9.5mm.

Shareni ,

Quick off the top of your head, why would I use fractions of a cm instead of mm? It's a workaround for a shit system

Shareni , (edited )

I rarely have to divide things by five or ten. I have to divide things by two, three and four a lot.

I don't know anything about carpentry, so I'll take your word on it.

My best guess is that the standards are different. For example 2cm stock instead of 1.9. Then only the 1/3 is problematic.

Shareni ,

Just Arch users being delusional. Every recent thread that had Arch mentioned in the comments has some variation of "Arch is the most stable distro" or "Stable distros have more issues than Arch".

Shareni ,
  1. Not crashing / requiring intervention to keep running.

The word you're looking for is reliability, not stability.

Shareni ,

Let me try that: "my car is so stable, it always starts on the first try", "this knife is unstable, it broke when I was cutting a sausage", "elephants are very reliable, you can't tip them over", "these foundations are unreliable, the house is tilting"

Strange, it's almost like the word "stability" has something to do with not moving or changing, and "reliability" something to do with working or behaving as expected.

Languages generally develop to be more precise because using a word with 20 different meanings is not a good idea. Meanwhile, native English speakers are working hard to revert back to cavemen grunts, and so now for example "literally" also means "metaphorically". Failing education and a lacking vocabulary are like that.

Shareni ,

Pay particular attention to “b”.

the property of a body that causes it ... to develop forces or moments that restore the original condition

That reminds me more of a pendulum. Swing it, and it'll always go back to the original, vertical, position because it develops a restoring moment.

The state of my system is “running”. Something changes. If the system doesn’t continue to be state “running", the system is unstable BY TEXTBOOK DEFINITION.

  1. That "something" needs to be the state of your system, not an update that doesn't disturb its "steady running motion" (when disturbed from a condition of equilibrium or steady motion).
  2. Arch doesn't restore itself back into a "running" condition. You need to fix it when an update causes the "unbootable" or any other different state instead of "running". That's like having to reset the pendulum because you swung it and it stayed floating in the air.
  3. What you're arguing has more to do with "a", you're attributing it a strength to endure; that it won't change the "running" state with time and updates.

I think the confusion comes from the meaning of stable. In software there are two relevant meanings:

I'm fascinated that someone that started off with this resists using two words instead of one this much. Let's paste in some more definitions:

Cambridge Dictionary:

stability:

  • a situation in which something is not likely to move or change
  • the state of being firmly fixed or not likely to move or change
  • a situation in which something such as an economy, company, or system can continue in a regular and successful way without unexpected changes
  • a situation in which prices or rates do not change much

Debian is not likely to change, Arch will change constantly. That's why we say Debian is stable, and Arch isn't.

reliability:

  • the quality of being able to be trusted or believed because of working or behaving well
  • how well a machine, piece of equipment, or system works
  • how accurate or able to be trusted someone or something is considered to be

You can and have argued that Arch is reliable.

Shareni ,

I've recently performed my first full conversion. The key was that windows took like 15 mins to boot and 5 more to open up chrome. That laptop might be ancient but with Linux it goes 0-browser in a minute, and the convertee is more than satisfied.

Shareni ,

Arch is a Vauxhall Novana

Nah, Arch is the reliant robin: it's minimal, requires constant maintenance, and while it might flip in a corner, it's pretty easy to get out and flip it back up ( it's a really good learning and training opportunity)

Shareni ,

Using an unstable kernel and drivers on Debian is the crackhead type of tweaking

Shareni ,

Its extremely stable

This is why people make fun of arch users

Shareni ,

Daamn, I'm a pupa (Arch -> Debian + Nix)

Shareni ,

Have you used it with Debian? Much better that way IMO

Shareni ,

It's a whole different story when it's just a package manager and not a distro. I made this comment to help people get started.

I'd only use nixos if there was a specific reason. Otherwise it's too much trouble for practically no benefits.

Shareni , (edited )

It all sinply just works™! Don't worry about configuration :)

And how goes your gpu acceleration?

I didn't know they upgraded from the user having to accidentally find out that they need nixgl, which isn't even in nixpkgs, and then dig through open issues to find a solution that might enable them to automatically start programs with it.

As long as you're not using relatively obscure software, you'll be more than fine reading the docs/manual :)

Are alacritty and kitty obscure or have a manual entry? I couldn't get either of them running.

And as for the manual itself, it's so trash that the only instructions for declarative package management use nix-env and aren't actually declarative.

Shareni ,

One's the worst idea to suggest to a beginner, the other is not so bad. Mix them up and you've got the best of both worlds.

Shareni ,

You don't need nixos for that. The only thing you lose is rolling back system configuration, unless you use system-manager.

Unless you're doing scientific computing, or being a sysadmin for a company, you don't actually need nixos. It's at that scale that system reproducibility becomes important enough to offset the downsides. For everyone else, home-manager and a list of packages are more than enough.

The learning curve is not that bad, it's just that the resources are a pile of burning garbage.

Also, idk what you're doing with VLC, but ~/.config should still work AFAIK.

Shareni ,

Thanks, good to know.

I’m a Linux noob (don’t even have the patience for Arch Wiki + install), coming from Pop_OS to NixOS and I’m happy it’s all so easy. I’ve installed it on my main PC and two separate laptops and so happy to just share (basically) the same config on all of them.

I'm far from a Linux noob, and I gave up on the whole idea before even getting to GPU acceleration, because it was giving me too many issues. Different requirements I guess.

Shareni ,

Damn, that sucks.

I gave up on nixos long before getting to that point. On Debian I use apt for to install a few user packages like alacritty because of Nix issues. Everything else is pretty much the same linux experience.

Shareni ,

And the nix-env version does work well actually

https://stop-using-nix-env.privatevoid.net/

Shareni ,

Imagine using a so called modern protocol that leaves you unable to change a WM in a DE

Who needs xorg bloat when you can make compositor devs reimplement it instead and bloat their own codebase lol

Shareni ,

Assuming:

  • everything works (just check out this thread)
  • there is Wayland alternative for every xorg tool you need, and they haven't been abandoned after a month
  • your setup isn't impossible due to DEs becoming a monolithic mess
Shareni ,

The only people who care about systemd are those that don't use it

Shareni ,

Yeah, and that was my point: Wayland turns DEs into inflexible monoliths. You trade modularity, customisability, and stability for better scaling, high-end monitor support, and theoretical security.

Shareni ,

I didn't say all people who don't use it care about it...

Although, it's funny that the only response is from someone saying they don't use systemd nor care about it

Shareni ,

I was talking about xorg specific tooling. For example sxhkd doesn't work in wayland. Swhkd is the wayland alternative that should work in both, but the last release was 2 years ago, is only available through AUR, and when I compiled it, it didn't work with either Wayland or xorg.

Shareni ,

Let's try this again for the last time:

"The only numbers, that are smaller than 10 and also prime numbers, are 2, 3, 5, and 7."

Does this mean that all numbers smaller than 10 are prime numbers?

Shareni ,

Ubuntu, opensuse, or freebsd. I can't remember what I installed first, since it was around 2006-2007. There was a piece about Linux in some PC magazine and I had to check it out.

Shareni ,

There is no hiding from the Emperor, for His light reaches all!

https://programming.dev/pictrs/image/8da50610-af42-4fff-883d-8546deab135e.jpeg

Shareni ,

Thy shalt burn in the pits of damnation for calling Microsoft sexy!

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