SorteKanin

SorteKanin , 1 month ago

Check out the faq in the readme https://github.com/tgxn/lemmy-explorer

SorteKanin , 1 month ago

The red on the cheeks really sells it as well. It could be intentional

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Uncannily relevant, I just had this happen with my Epson printer the other day. Is there any printer you can get these days that doesn't do this?

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

It’s very likely that some person I want to follow will be on Threads, and until people can convince them otherwise

You realize that it makes it a lot more difficult to convince people to come to the rest of the Fediverse instead of using Threads if people are following them and federating with Threads?

This is exactly how Zuckerberg wants you to think.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

And the only email I want blocked is a domain where every single user is malicious, not a domain run by a malicious entity which has normal people as users, who aren’t necessarily very tech literate.

You'll never get the tech iliterate people to switch to the rest of the Fediverse otherwise. Defederating Threads is about making it as bad as possible for its users - it's about hurting Meta and stemming its bad influence on the web.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

it places one way mirror between us from which only they can see thru

What do you mean by this? Even if Meta would collect data from defederated servers (I don't think they would), it would be massively more complicated than if they were federated.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

But you're giving Meta the same selling point, right? Join Threads and see all the same content. There's no point in going elsewhere then. It kinda goes both ways.

You're right that we don't know what will happen. So it could just as well be that Threads would swallow the whole Fediverse and then if Threads blocks an instance, it's like a death sentence for that instance. That's the whole embrace, extend, extinguish.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago)

When you defederate it stops the traffic flow from threads.net to you but the traffic from you to them is unchanged.

No, that is not how defederation works. One server defederates, traffic stops in both directions. It's not comparable to user blocking.

posts and messages are publicly available to anyone

There's a big difference between the posts being available publicly on the Web and them being sent to Threads via federation.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

when X defederates with Y, and people want to see all the content, all else being equal they will pick Y

Hmmm maybe? But I think that's a misunderstanding from a lot of users. You don't want to see all content, trust me. Defederating is not necessarily bad. In most cases, it's healthy.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Threads can still participate via comments on Lemmy. I believe they can also post to communities via hashtags?

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

You will in fact see their posts if they reply to Lemmy comments. They'll then appear as comments in Lemmy. I believe Mastodon users can also post to communities by using hashtags, though I'm not 100% clear on that.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Good on you for admitting it - we're all wrong sometimes :) take it as a learning opportunity

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Well, for one thing, Threads is already full of ads. And I don't mean Threads ads, I mean users posting ads, like ads for their own products or services or for their audience, trying to be an influencer and all that.

But it's not necessarily the users that will be problematic. It's more that by federating with Meta, you're giving value to Zuckerberg. And I don't want to do that.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

some users will just get fed up with the demands/changes they’re making and move to an instance that is incompatible/defederated with Threads

But many users might now and then we've given Threads leverage - stay federated with Threads and give in to their demands and changes, or lose a big chunk of your users. That's not leverage I want Meta to have. So I say defederate ahead of time.

I’m strongly against people pushing their values onto others. I would much rather have individual users block that instance if they so wish instead of someone deciding for them.

I've seen this sentiment before and I understand how it can seem appealing. Why should anyone decide what any user sees? Just let every user decide for themselves.

However, there's multiple problems with that idea. Firstly, it doesn't scale. It's not sustainable to have every user block all the bad stuff for themselves before they get a sane feed. Secondly, it's not a whole solution. A single user can block an instance, but that instance will still have an influence with votes (and blocking an instance right now in Lemmy is only blocking community posts so you'll also see comments from an instance you "blocked" and this is by design). So user blocking simply doesn't do the same thing as defederation does.

Also nobody is pushing values onto others really - each user decides for themselves what instance to join. They can join one endorsed by the Fedigarden og fedipact or whatever else they want. Or they can join another one. Up to them.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

It's not like deep fake pornography is "built in" but Stable Diffusion can take existing images and generate stuff based on it. That's kinda how it works really. The de-facto standard UI makes it pretty simple, even for someone who's not too tech savvy: https://github.com/AUTOMATIC1111/stable-diffusion-webui

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

I think it's just the fact that they've additionally signed this "pact" that says they'll never federate with them or anything else meta again. See the link at the bottom of the page.

It's mostly just symbolic, a sign of commitment.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Musk has marketed it as the world’s “town square"

He says it so clearly here which makes me wonder how people don't realize it:

How fucked up would it be if your actual town square was owned by a private company?

A private company that is in control of who is allowed to talk and what they are allowed to say. A private company that even decides what you hear and see while walking the square. Meanwhile also shovelling ads in front of you while you try to find the people you actually want to engage with.

"Social" media owned by private corporations is not social. Such media is anti-social, corporate control of public spaces that ought to belong to the people, just like they mostly do in real life.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

I've never been there so don't know really. But it does seem full of ads and not very social either.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Mastodon is just one platform used to access the Fediverse. I agree, Mastodon might not be the hottest Fediverse microblogging app in a decade, but the Fediverse will certainly still be around. And that's what you should really care about.

Don't go to Mastodon specifically, just go to the Fediverse.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

sell it

Sell it? For what, 0 dollars? If anyone wants the data, they can just set up an instance themselves.

The data is freely available. Just like open source stuff.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

FWIW I think this is intentional and a feature, not a bug. By spreading content to communities, you can delegate moderation responsibility much easier.

Content not posted to any community would need something akin to a site-wide moderator or an admin to moderate, and such a moderator wouldn't be as effective. They'd cover a wider array of very different content. Community moderators work better because they can define rules that are only confined to their comm and they know better how to moderate their own community and they also care more about their own community so are more motivated to keep it well-moderated in the fashion they want.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

whatever LW does will affect all of Lemmy

Uuuh no it won't? The fact that they federate with Threads doesn't mean that my instance does. How does it affect me?

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

diatribes

I learned a new word today

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

decently-sized

Why does this matter? You can see everything on lemmy.world even if you come from a small instance. Size is not necessarily a benefit here.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Stop praying and just move to an instance that defederates with Threads. It's really not hard.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

the federation can still scrape data through other federated instances that mine is connected with

That's not true. If your instance is defederated from Threads, your content will never be sent to Threads. Other instances will not forward content for you to Threads.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Here, you dropped this: /s

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

True, that's fair. But I'd still join a small server to give it a chance and to keep them afloat. Small servers would maybe stay around more if more people joined :)

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

No, that's not how federation works. My instance sends my content directly to everything my instance federates with. No instance takes content from other instances and sends it further - that is not a thing. I sent my content to lemmy.world and it is free to be there. Lemmy.world will not forward that to Threads.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

but my understanding is that since LW will federate with them, any content they host, will end up on meta

Your understanding is wrong. Instances don't forward stuff from other instances to other instances. Instances only send their own content directly to the instances they federate with.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

A quick search leads me to https://fedi.tips/ which has a lot of information. It mostly focuses on Mastodon but it generally applies to Lemmy and any other Fediverse app as well.

You probably won't find any source specifically saying that "content is not forwarded from remote servers to other remote servers" because that's just not how it works. The documentation will probably focus on what it actually does rather than all of the infinite things that it doesn't do.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Yes

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

... Or you know, just go to an instance that defederates from Threads if you don't want you content there?

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

What makes you say that? Why is defederation not good enough?

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

But realistically they won't and at least we make it harder for them. Don't make defederation sound like it's a lost cause when it isn't.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Thanks, that added some good context to your position. I think it's a legitimate worry but I think we have a chance, unlike the shopping mall scenario.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Only two crates used - TOML and Rocket (plus Rust’s standard library)

This seems like a bit of a weird approach. There's lots of existing nice Rust crates to build with, why use such a minimal approach?

Also Rocket has essentially been superceded by more mature frameworks like Axum.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Well that's a bit of a double-sided sword. Libraries also includes lots of failsafes built in that you'll need to implement yourself then. And you'll need to be confident that you don't implement security issues in your own code instead of relying on widely used libraries. But it makes sense if you're worried about supply chain attacks.

SorteKanin OP , 2 months ago

I mean... He made www, HTML, URLs and HTTP. Literally everything you used to write your comment he was involved in. I'm sure he didn't do it entirely alone, we always build on what came before us. But it's not inaccurate to call him the inventor of the Web.

Also remember the Web is not the same as the Internet.

SorteKanin OP , 2 months ago

The World Wide Web is more or less the Internet as most users see it - HTML documents located via URLs shared over the HTTP protocol. But that's just one specific protocol used for sharing a specific kind of content (hypertext). It turns out you can do a whole lot with that, hence the ubiquity of the Web.

But the Internet as a whole is broader than that. There are other protocols, other content to share, other ways to locate data. For a down-to-earth familiar example, just consider any online multiplayer game. You're using the Internet to communicate to the game's servers to play the game, but that Internet traffic is certainly not part of the Web.

SorteKanin OP , 2 months ago

Yea I agree, it's a bit strange to me that the inventor of the web doesn't seem to have a personal blog site for his own writing.

SorteKanin OP , 2 months ago

Doesn't seem like he's used it since 2020 though

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

It's wrong to say that Lemmy is censored. Certain Lemmy instances censor more than others. Go to instances you like that don't censor the stuff you don't want censored.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Then go to other instances. Lemmy isn't censored, the instances you visit are. You are free to start your own instance without any censoring if you want.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

What is "this place"? Your own instance? You should move instances if you don't like the censoring.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Lemmy isn't a place. Lemmy is just the software you use to access the Fediverse. Lemmy is not censored or uncensored - only specific instances can be censored or uncensored.

SorteKanin , 2 months ago

Fair enough - I can definitely understand that