lemmeee

lemmeee OP , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve fans be like

You could say the same about Android or Google Chrome. They have some parts that are Free Software, but does that really matter?

lemmeee OP , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve fans be like

I guess Android, SailfishOS and the mainline Linux kernel are not proprietary then. Oh wait, they are.

lemmeee , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

Since the OS comes with Steam, clearly having some GPL licensed packages doesn't prevent them from adding proprietary packages and not all software is GPL licensed. Also Android and SailfishOS exist and both are proprietary.

Valve puts one piece of commercial software on a completely FOSS operating system, this is nothing like windows, and i’m sorry but you sound delusional.

There is nothing wrong with commercial software. The issue is with proprietary software, because it takes away user's freedom. Free Software can be commercial too. It doesn't matter how many nonfree packages it has, because even one package makes the whole thing proprietary. Google Chrome is not Free Software just because it's based on Chromium, which is a Free Software project. Android is based on Free Software and it's also proprietary. Their goal is to blur the line and it's clearly working. I'm not denying that SteamOS is more free than Windows, but it's still bad and since they can get away with this, I suspect it will keep getting worse just like other proprietary operating systems.

If they wanted to, why would they not use BSD?

This is irrelevant. They chose whatever was the most convenient and the cheapest. Companies use Free Software projects to make proprietary software all the time. Valve at least contributes to projects, but they abuse their users by denying them freedom and that's the main issue.

lemmeee OP , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve fans be like

nearly all

Exactly. They are using the work of Free Software volunteers to make a proprietary OS.

lemmeee OP , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve fans be like

with the proprietary Steam client

You answered your own question.

lemmeee , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

That doesn’t mean you can’t control how it works. Most people don’t need sources of their Linux distros to use them as they want.

You can't easily make changes to a program without the source code or even check what it does. Most people are not programmers, so others study the code and make the necessary changes for them.

It would be cool to have the source, but you wouldn’t expect them to have an official maintained repo since they spend much more resources on actual hardware that needs this distro.

This is not an excuse. What they are doing is unethical. They put themselves in a position of power over their users. Not much different from Microsoft or Apple.

Yeah it seems to also be the only thing that is proprietary in SteamOS too.

I don't know if that's true. But the Linux kernel is proprietary as well (just like the one in Arch) - it contains binary blobs without the source code.

Are you clueless or what? There are too many ways to do what you want with SteamOS. You can use offline mode, desktop mode, play pirated games in any mode, install any controller software you like.

I was explaining to you how DRM works and why it's wrong, since apparently you have no idea. I don't know why you are listing features that any popular desktop operating system has (even Windows). SteamOS is still proprietary, which makes it unethical.

Finally, install another Linux distro on it, or Windows. But people buy Deck because of SteamOS mostly since it creates the intended (and expected) experience.

If you buy a Windows laptop, you can install any operating system on it too. That doesn't make Windows ethical.

lemmeee , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

Valve is an enemy of freedom. It doesn't matter if they abuse us less than other companies. They are still an unethical company.

As much as we wish for everything to be DRM free it would never happen.

If you don't fight for it, then of course it won't happen. Also I'm pretty sure you could say this about any difficult problem: Free Software, privacy, global warming, wars. You could say that we will never solve those issues, so why bother doing anything?

Also, the average person doesn’t care about DRM. They don’t understand the implications of what makes an ethical market. They just want to install a game and hit start.

An average person doesn't mind running Windows either. But we still try to build a better world for ourselves and we try to convince others to join us.

lemmeee , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

They are DRM-free. I can send you a copy of those games and you can run them on your computer. Without you having to log in anywhere or install an additional proprietary application. Without anyone verifying anything. Isn't that amazing?

lemmeee , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

This path has lead us to where we are today, which is why companies want to blur the line between free and nonfree software, because it's the only way they can slow down the progress of our movement. Microsoft also contributes to "Open Source" and that's great, but they also abuse their users, which wrong. It's similar with Valve. The Steam client is proprietary. Sure, you can remove it, just like you can remove Windows from a computer too, but that doesn't make Windows ethical. Linux is already proprietary by default - it contains binary blobs without source code. So Arch is already a nonfree OS, Valve is just making it even more proprietary. I see a lot of people falling for the same traps over and over again and I'm worried that the majority of us will never learn to avoid them.

lemmeee , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

Then you don't care about freedom and having control over your computer. That's a shame. I think you should.

You have to recognize that having an open source almost everything except a single program (steam) is better than what windows is doing by miles, right?

But is that actually true? There is no source code for SteamOS 3. How do you know how many packages are proprietary? Even one nonfree package is unethical. People deserve to have control over their computers, I don't care if it's currently a little better than Windows.

You can’t win everything, steam is never going to stop being proprietary

This is irrelevant. We should still try to make the world better and fight the injustice. If gamers realized this 10 years ago, maybe we would have this problem solved by now.

The issue is not as black and white as you’re making it seem.

You can't have freedom when someone is actively trying to take it away from you. We have to get rid of proprietary software. If we accept the abuse from those companies, nothing will change. We've been fighting this battle for 40 years now. Those companies want to give you an illusion of freedom, so that they can pretend that they are good. They are using the work of Free Software volunteers to build a prison for you.

Plus if steam wins, getting people to switch to fully open source operating systems will be a lot easier.

No, there is no Free Software alternative to Steam and there is no reason to believe that Valve will release its source code.

You are making an assumption that Valve won't make their system even more proprietary. But why wouldn't they if their fans are ok with this? They're already abusing their power with Steam. Giving them more power will only make the abuse worse.

lemmeee , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

Can you explain what parts of SteamOS are not controllable in a way that makes it more restricted than Arch, which it is based on?

Valve won't release the source code and I don't use it, so it's hard for me to tell which packages are proprietary and which are not. Steam client for sure is proprietary and it comes with the OS. Arch by default is Free Software (other than proprietary blobs in the kernel) and you can audit what each program does and modify it. With SteamOS you can't do that, because Valve keeps secrets from you on your own device.

[If the account owns the game - allow user to download and run the game] is a DRM sure… But it’s kind of fair, no?

To play any game you have to install and run the proprietary Steam client and be logged in to an account. Even to play singleplayer games. Even if you bought a physical disc. There are stores that don't do this: gog.com and itch.io. They provide an optional client for convenience, but you can just download a game's installer from the website and install it on any PC any time you want. In case of Itch the client is Free Software so anyone can see what it does and modify it.

lemmeee , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

And that makes it ethical? DRM-free stores exist: gog.com and itch.io for example.

lemmeee , 2 months ago (edited 2 months ago) to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

Steam OS is easy, you can install literally any other distro.

You can say the same about Windows. You can replace it with another OS, but that doesn't make it ethical.

With regards to steam itself sadly we don’t live in a fairytale land where everything can be FOSS, there aren’t enough people motivated to work for free.

If everyone had this attitude, there would be no Free Software at all. It took 40 years of hard work to get to where we are right now. I don't understand why you think that anyone has to work for free. Free Software is about freedom, not price. Itch.io is a store that has a Free Software client (and it's optional - you don't even have to use it). Valve could do the same, but they don't want to.

Steam drm is great it makes publisher executives happy, while being extremely easy to crack.

Yes, it's great that publishers can abuse us and that you need a proprietary app on your system and be logged in to an account to play singleplayer games. Thanks Valve.

lemmeee , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

You don't have to use SteamOS and you don't have to use Windows, but that doesn't change the fact that they are unethical operating systems designed to take away user's freedom. You can't easily know what it does on your device or change it. It keeps secrets from you. Steam also restricts you with DRM. So unless you are fine with Valve becoming another Microsoft, we need to criticize them for doing this.

lemmeee , 2 months ago to linuxmemes in Valve made the right decision

You are right, laws can be pretty crazy sometimes. Especially the copyright law. Thanks for explaining.