wopazoo

wopazoo , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Are you against any sort of tax for oversized vehicles? Do you also believe that congestion pricing "hurts poor people"?

Also, giant SUVs are only accessible to the rich anyways. No poor person is driving around an Audi Q8 or a Cadillac Escalade, they take the train.

wopazoo , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

One electric car is better than one gasoline car, because electric cars don't fart toxic gases into the air where everyone's trying to breathe.

I'd take 10 electric cars over 7 gasoline fart cans any day of the week.

wopazoo , 3 months ago

When giant SUVs are only accessible to the rich anyways, then the whole premise of tripling parking fees is meaningless to begin with.

Driving your car seems free because you've already paid for it yesterday at the pump. Expensive parking puts a real, visible price on driving that you have to confront every single day.

The rich doesn't solely consist of Jeff Bezos and co. Most people who drive luxury SUVs cannot afford tripled parking prices in the city every day. And even if they could, this forces them to reconsider their habits and maybe take the train next time.

And yes, I'm against the idea of trying to solve the problem using a tax because it's a performative measure that accomplishes nothing of real value while distracting from real solutions.

This is not a performative measure, this is the real solution. Driving needs to become multiple times more expensive, and a tripled parking price is a good place to start. Drivers are heavily subsidized by society and this subsidy needs to end, and these taxes are the first step in that direction.

I believe this accomplishes about as much as carbon taxes.

You can't be fucking serious lol.

wopazoo , 3 months ago

Let's cut to the chase: do you oppose congestion pricing?

Do you oppose congestion pricing because it "hurts the working poor" and that it's just a "performative gesture"?

wopazoo , 3 months ago

The real solution is to invest in building public transit infrastructure, to design cities to be walkable.

We are talking about Paris here. Paris has the best public transit infrastructure in the world. Paris is highly walkable.

People who drive downtown have no excuse for their actions and must be penalized accordingly.

When London implemented congestion pricing, it significantly improved traffic and encouraged people to take transit. You are completely ignoring reality if you oppose congestion pricing on the basis of it being ineffective.

wopazoo , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

When there is adequate infrastructure then there should just be a ban period.

You are deeply unserious if your proposal is just "ban all cars lulz".

What these policies achieve is to provide the rich with privileges that regular people can't enjoy.

Congestion pricing and paid parking have objectively reduced traffic in downtowns across the world, and you are deeply unserious if you want to achieve a goal but refuse to do anything to work towards that goal.

You are seriously advocating for the massive subsidization of drivers here. I do not weep for the ability of the common man to impose massive externalities on their fellow men and have their behavior be subsidized.

Cars are a luxury good that most people simply cannot afford without massive subsidies. Consider how in Hong Kong and Singapore, where cars aren't subsidized, only the rich can afford to drive. Do you think that this is wrong? Should Hong Kong and Singapore bulldoze their cities and pave over paradise so that poor people can drive too?

You are acting as if driving cars is a God-given right that poor people are being denied. There is no such right to drive a car. The private automobile is a luxury good that would have never spread to the masses if not for massive government subsidies. Driving is not a civil right.

wopazoo , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Nice straw man buddy. What we're actually talking about merits of making SUVs a privilege for the rich or banning them.

SUVs have always been a privilege for the rich. This policy reduces the amount of people who can afford to drive SUVs downtown. It is a net good despite your aesthetic objections against it.

A world where everyone can afford to drive SUVs is not better than a world where only a few can afford to drive SUVs. The world where everyone can afford to drive SUVs is the American suburb, where car ownership is so heavily subsidized to the point that even poor people drive SUVs. Do you think this is better than Hong Kong or Singapore, where only rich people can afford to drive SUVs?

I'm not, but keep on straw manning there. Seems to be what you excel at.

This is literally your position. Your logic is completely indistinguishable from that of pro-car concern trolling. There is an in-between world between Dallas and utopia. There needs to be an in-between step between car hell and bicycle utopia. Expensive parking is a needed step in the right direction. To refuse to take the first step out of car hell, however imperfect it might be, is to advocate for an indefinite wallowing in the pits of shit.

Nope, but I've already realized that having a serious discussion with you isn't possible. Bye.

And you are simply a deeply unserious person who says they want something but in actuality are advocating for the exact opposite. Good riddance!

In your bizarro world, there are actually no in-between steps between carbon hell and green utopia. Until carbon dioxide is banned, people should just be allowed to emit CO2 for free.

I'm so sorry that you cannot comprehend a world that's in-between "everyone drives SUVs" and "only a few drive SUVs" and understand why the latter world is better than the former world. When you advocate against policy that improves society somewhat on the basis that it doesn't create utopia, you are advocating in favor of the status-quo.

No hard feelings.

wopazoo , 3 months ago

I am for a total car ban in city centers around the world. However, this is not a policy that activists today can seriously propose to a city council: consider that even in the ground zero of the Urbanist movement, Amsterdam, cars are still allowed in the city center.

Even though I would prefer a total car ban, I am not going to oppose intermediate steps like a triple tax on oversized vehicles, because I'm not going to let my dreams of a perfect city get in the way of improving society somewhat.

wopazoo , 3 months ago

the fart particles are still there though

As a person who rides bikes a lot, I strongly prefer sitting at a stoplight behind an electric vehicle over a gasoline vehicle. Tailpipe emissions matter a great deal even though EVs don't completely solve the problem of cars creating air pollution.

Of course, I still prefer no cars over electric cars.

wopazoo , 3 months ago

What I'm arguing against is making SUVs an acceptable privilege for rich people.

The proposal doesn't do anything akin to "making SUVs an acceptable privilege for rich people", it applies a triple sin tax on SUVs. This is better than if there were no sin tax at all.

wopazoo , 3 months ago

It's incredible that you can't wrap your head around the fact that creating a tax that only rich people can afford makes SUVs a privilege for the rich.

SUVs for Poor People 2024 - Why should only rich people drive SUVs?

No one should drive SUVs. Making SUVs something only rich people can afford reduces the total amount of SUVs on the road. I'm sure that you would prefer Singapore over Dallas, right?

It's doubly funny that you yourself already admitted that it's only rich people who own SUVs anyways meaning that there's likely to be little tangible effect from this.

You'd be surprised at the irrationality of rich people who spend big bucks on an expensive car but balk at tripled parking prices.

Here's an anecdote: I personally know a Lexus driver who refuses to drive downtown because the parking is too expensive.

wopazoo , 3 months ago

making it so that rich pricks can prance around in them is just rewarding privilege.

Please show me some of the poor people who are driving around downtown Paris in SUVs (hint: there is no one)

wopazoo , 3 months ago

Please show me the mythical poor people who are driving around downtown Paris in their SUVs. Please, show me one! They don't exist! Please stop pearl clutching over the plight of the mythical poor Parisian SUV driver!

wopazoo , 3 months ago

You have got to be American right? The right for one to drive their big-ass SUV downtown is not something the Parisian working-class is concerned about!

Working-class Parisians are not buying and driving big-ass SUVs downtown anyways! No poor people are being harmed by this!

wopazoo , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

So what's your argument then? You're against a tax on people publicly flaunting their wealth, because it will... prevent poor people from flaunting their wealth? Lmao? Wealth that poor people don't have?

wopazoo , 3 months ago (edited 3 months ago)

Poor people aren't driving SUVs around downtown Paris in the first place. I do not weep for nonexistent people.

It's actually incredible that you have people on fuck cars that are AGAINST raising the prices of car parking. Anything that's done to make driving more expensive and less subsidized is anti-poor apparently. Literally indistinguishable from pro-car concern trolling.

wopazoo , 3 months ago

Opposing the war on cars because you weep for the mythical working-poor Parisian SUV driver

wopazoo , 3 months ago

I'm going to name every single logical fallacy you've ever made, and it's going to be fucking over for you.

You've truly run out of points when all you can say is "hurr durr strawman strawman" huh?

wopazoo , 3 months ago

Parisians: improves society somewhat

Wise man: this will not turn society into utopia, so I actually oppose this measure lol

wopazoo , 3 months ago

Imperfect measures that improve society somewhat are actually fucking evil.

wopazoo , 3 months ago

PIGPOOPBALLS

wopazoo , 3 months ago

maddened when someone improves society somewhat

wopazoo , 3 months ago

improve-society

wopazoo , 3 months ago

tyre extinguishers are based as fuck and they have caused a nonzero amount of people to reconsider their purchase of an SUV or to not drive their SUV downtown

wopazoo , 3 months ago

I'm just mad that my city built a new protected bike lane along a busy road, but the air smells so bad because of car exhaust lol