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ACLU suspects warrantless surveillance in neo-Nazi’s prosecution

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.sdf.org/post/18833721

I hate that groups like the ACLU have to defend nazi scum to protect my liberties. Better that the government not violate our rights in the first place, but in lieu of that, even nazi scum is subject to the same rights and due process as any other citizen. However, I wouldn’t mind if they got pantsed a couple of times by their lawyers.

KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

It's a shame that the ACLU has to defend horrible people.

L3xR4m ,
@L3xR4m@mastodon.social avatar

@KingThrillgore @makeasnek
Who would that be?

makeasnek OP , (edited )
@makeasnek@lemmy.ml avatar

It's a shame the US govt has to try to do unconstitutional things. And that we have to keep fighting them back to preserve our basic liberties and freedoms. It's a blessing the ACLU does it for us.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

Is this really the best use of the ACLU's limited resources?

hanrahan ,
@hanrahan@slrpnk.net avatar

I am aure they'd rather be busy doing other things but if the Governmwnt starts taking liberties and shits on the Constitution, then we need someone to step up to the plate..
Shame on the Government.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

Everyone here seems to be missing the point. The government's already doing that to way more than the nazi. Why only defend the nazi?

uriel238 ,
@uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Until we can find a better way to enforce civil liberties, the striking of illegally obtained evidence in the prosecution of terrible criminals is necessary. That they get to walk free is the point first as a penalty to the state (that now a monster remains at large) and second as a penalty to the public for allowing the state to let its agents abuse their power.

If neonazis and terrorists aren't protected by our Bill of Rights, then you aren't either. And it informs how the massive extrajudicial surveillance state got formed in the first place, as the US state believes national security (in all its ambiguity) is valued more than American lives.

possiblylinux127 , (edited )
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Perhaps we should put you in charge then. At the end of the day you are innocent until proven guilty. Also the first amendment covers freedom of speed and belief. As long as they aren't breaking the law by harassing someone or disturbing the peace they are protected. With that being said there are lots of ways that being racist or discriminatory will hurt the offender. They are likely to lose there job and to be banned.

These same Democratic principles apply to anyone with any view. You can't stop a black lives matter protest because you think black lives don't matter. Democracy means we all get a voice and that we have systems in place to resolve issues and to find justice. It isn't perfect in the least but you can be heard.

That's also what makes mass surveillance and warrantless data collection to identify suspects so dangerous. It doesn't just affect a small group of people. It targets us all and keeps the public in fear of the government. Only evil thrives in darkness. Anytime something happens behind closed doors the chance of corruption and abuse skyrockets. We need people to be informed of the processes and to understand the system so that they can participate in it.

0x520 ,
@0x520@slrpnk.net avatar

There are tons of defendants across Amerikkka in similar situations and the fact that the ACLU is constantly defending scumbags in the name of protecting all of our rights is the most asinine liberal bullshit I can think of. How many poor black people are there sitting in rikers on some stop-and-frisk bullshit, while the ACLU is prioritizing the rights of Neo-Nazis? There are plenty of other ways to address warranties searches and ironically this dipshit would probably benefit from any precedent that addresses this issue, but at the very least... and this is an example of the bar being in hell and them trying to lower... but at the least, don't provide free legal defense council for society's best arguments against civilization. But if none of that resonates, just don't defend people that spend a not insignificant amount of time and respurces to attack the existence of things like the ACLU before and after you defend them. Because when they get off, maybe their next attack will annihilate the right to free council for everybody else in the country. Or as Aus Rotten put it; don't give them freedom because they're not going to give you yours. Fuck Nazi Sympathy. Of any kind.

JamesTBagg ,

Maybe, just hypothesis from a dumb guy, maybe this case is a tactical choice. It's higher profile, It'll progress through the courts faster, they suspect the Supreme Court will be more sympathetic to this plantiff and this get the judgements that protect everyone, I don't know. Maybe it marketing to appear impartial, "See, we'll even defend a nazi."
I don't know, I'm shooting from the hip while sitting on the toilet.

cecinestpasunbot ,

If you have to defend Nazi’s because the SC will give them a more favorable decision then the legal system is already fucked beyond repair.

BilboBargains ,

Why didn't the ACLU defend Ross Ulbricht? What about all the whistleblowers that have been imprisoned lately? Seems like there are better candidates than this guy.

thesmokingman ,

I wasn’t aware Silk Road was taken down via FISA. I’ve read all of the long form accounts of it that I’m aware of and I don’t remember FISA being mentioned at all. Can you share a source?

jabathekek ,
@jabathekek@sopuli.xyz avatar

How ironic that "First they came for the Nazis" makes sense here lol.

There was probably a whole bunch of Jewish lawyers that wanted to represent these people. Mandala, shaking their hands.

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

In communications with a federal confidential informant, the pair allegedly planned to “coordinate to get multiple [substations] at the same time.” Clendaniel pleaded guilty to conspiring to damage or destroy electrical facilities in May of this year.

But in a court filing, the ACLU attorneys say Russell has “reason to believe” that the government “intercepted his communications” and subjected him to a warrantless “backdoor search” by querying the Section 702 databases.

And less than a month after that initial query, we disrupted that US person who, it turned out, had researched and identified critical infrastructure sites in the US and acquired the means to conduct an attack.” The defense’s motion to compel the federal government to provide notice of use of Section 702 surveillance of Russell includes both the Politico report and Wray’s speech as exhibits.

The ACLU’s response, filed this Monday, notes that the government “does not dispute that Mr. Russell was subject to warrantless surveillance under Section 702” but instead claims it has no legal obligation to turn over FISA notice in this instance.

Legislators’ attempts to rein in the controversial surveillance authority failed, and multiple amendments requiring the FBI to obtain warrants to search or access Americans’ communications under Section 702 were voted down.

“Especially as recently expanded and reauthorized by Congress, this spying authority could be further abused by a future administration against political opponents, protest movements, and civil society organizations, as well as racial and religious minorities, abortion providers, and LGBTQ people.”

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