Because it's funny. His own AG stated he wouldn't be fit to stand trial in a case regarding the classified documents he was illegally in possession of. I will fully admit I'm more Trump than not, but put up a funny Trump meme and I'll laugh along with you. Last actual funny anti-Trump meme I can recall was one of those "Ladies, find yourself a man who looks at you the way Trump looks at Ivanka". That actually generated a giggle. The shit I see nowadays is lazy "Orange man in jumpsuit!!!! He go jail!". That shit's not funny, it's dumb. I've seen some pretty dumbass Biden ones too.
Would you believe that the people in a democracy look poorly on attempts to overthrow that democracy? Shocking stuff, but it's true.
Unrelated, I do have questions. I find myself wondering where you came by your taste for leather. Did you acquire it later in life or were you born with a boot in your mouth? And is the brain damage from licking up all the polish, or being dropped repeatedly on your head?
And to be fair, the US isn't a "democracy". It's a constitutional republic with democratically elected representatives. Semantics, I know, but accuracy counts.
I know exactly what fascism is. Being anti-democracy does not in itself make you a fascist, but it's a very strong sign that you are. Either way you're an asshole and I don't particularly care what flavor of asshole you are.
Never thought being pro-freedom meant fascist to intellectuals such as yourself. A system that could swing from election to election based on one vote seems pretty fucking horrible tbh, especially in the US with our deep partisan divdes. Imagine the sheer horror the libs would go through whe the country went 50.0000000001 to 49.9999999999 conservative and abortion became illegal for 4 years! Bet you'd hate democracy then!
For the record, I'm solidly pro choice, pro 2A, athiest and couldn't care less who you want to spend your naked time with. Find another lazy insult, fascist already wore itself out, and it doesn't describe the people you think it does - bet you agree with keeping Trump off the ballot. "Democratic", indeed.
What, pray tell, gives you that idea? Considering i seem to know more about it than most of the people in this thread that want to pull some sort of "gotcha" on me, id argue the opposite. What do you find me to be in disagreement with the constitution on? Only arguments I've made here have been that there's no proof that Trump ordered an assault on the capitol. If your argument is that they were whipped up by his rhetoric (and I'd like to see it in context, including the "peacefully and patriotically let your voices be heard" part included), then way more people need to be imprisoned longer for their "involvement" in the BLM/antifa riots of 2020. Maxine Waters literally stated that if you see a "Trumper" in a public place to get in their face and tell them they're not welcome. Seems to be pretty inciting speech, yet she's free to roam about and squander our tax dollars (like both sides do, I'm not disputing that). You don't really believe any of this shit, you just hate Trump and see it as an excuse to remove him from politics and to serve as a warning to anyone who dares to stand in the way of your progressive agenda.
Saying I was "there in spirit, so come get me" was pretty obviously a joke. If you don't like it, that's on you.
Trump didn't "order an assault", he incited it via his negligent speech; there's a big difference in intent. Now if you want to debate on who was involved that's fine; because shit fuckers like QAnon cult were involved along with other trash; but it's a fact that Trump's speech and even his entire campaign was negligent and rallied much attention from radicals even just leading up to it, his speech was just the straw that killed the camel and was the perfect excuse for these psychos.
Even with "peacefully and patriotically let your voices be heard" included, his campaign had already riled up the radicals and as we know once radicals are riled up their delusions make them only hear the "They're attacking our democracy, march down to the capital... Be strong... Fight like hell... If you don't fight like hell your not going to have a country anymore... Fight like hell".
Now I'm not going to argue wether or not he meant to incite the riot or wether or not it's a reflection of Trump or even wether it or not it was an inside job (it likely partially was considering the parties involved, some even glowed θ‿θ), but it's pretty clear that his campaign was negligent at the least.
Don't get me wrong, I have a pretty negative opinion of both Trump and Biden. Biden is an incompetent mental not there puppet with half his body in the grave and Trump openly supports Putin... So... Yeah... I'm not huge fan of the Democratic party or Republican party as is either. Wether I'm more right or left leaning is extremely questionable but I can tell you one thing, I'm very much openly critical of both parties and the "vote for the lesser evil" bs.
Finally a well thought out and reasonable response. I appreciate that, along with the lack of name-calling.
The issue at hand is, mere negligence, even if it was ruled as such, rarely elicits a conviction, and oftentimes won't even resort in charges. Stack that with the resentment that roughly 50% of the voting public (not ongoing to argue numbers, just using it as a rough guide) would see it as an attack on the person whom they believed in and voted for (or saw as a foil to someone they liked less, in this case Biden).
There's also the issue that criminal negligence is notoriously hard to convict on, and in the highly unlikely scenario it were charged, convicted and sentenced, it wouldn't take a dream team of lawyers to overturn based on unequal application of the law, which, in this case, wouldn't take more than watching the nightly news.
None of this is stating that it's my belief that he was criminally negligent by using the terms "fight like hell" and such, I do not. It's common enough vernacular in the English language that to try and indict, let alone convict on it is pretty paper-thin.
Look, I understand that roughly half of the country dislikes him, if not outright hates him. However, that isn't enough to throw out precedent in an attempt to remove him from the ballot. The fact that it is being tried in several states is, in its pure form, fascism.
Interesting that you bring up the possibility of false flag actors, I wasn't going to go there, but I do appreciate the honesty in that it is quite possible there were some there.
I can at least partially agree, however I want to preference that with had he actually intentionally incited the riot he should be removed given the nationalistic bases making it pretty fascist in it own right. However, it has already been found that there's insufficient evidence (specifically for the riot at least) in a court of law and in so removing him at this point would indeed be pretty unjust.
Interesting that you bring up the possibility of false flag actors
I'm nearly 100% sure that there were, like we already know that the QAnon cult was there because they were very public about their presence and I had already seen them planing it on their brain rot forums prior to it. The other parties are a bit more dubious to varying degree but I'm not going to pretend like there isn't any evidence because there most certainly is even if it's not completely solid. There's also the given that the QAnon cult have their own connections and intersections with other radical parties that were said to have been involved.
As for the glowies involvement; though the most dubious; It'd not be surprising either, Biden would make for a pretty good puppet considering his mental state and it's not like they haven't puppeteer-ed before, for example... The NSA & FBI capitalizing on 9/11 by exploiting their connection with president Bush to sign in the patriot act authorizing them to violate privacy and civil liberties via the conduct of warrantless wiretaps and surveillance on international phone calls and emails of American citizens as part of the President's Surveillance Program and Terrorist Surveillance Program. Which the NSA's mass surveillance programs was then exposed by Edward Snowden, a former contractor for the National Security Agency (NSA), in 2013.
You won't find much of an argument with me on any of these points. We see our freedoms get trampled on in the name of... whatever, and too many people just say "thank you sir, may I have another".
It seems that a lot of anti-trump/pro-biden folk just downvote anything even slightly differing in opinion without even understanding the nuance and that's a big character flaw on their part, granted pro-trump/anti-biden folk can be the same way; however I've found the pro-biden folk to be more so.
Like I've already said previously, I'm pretty anti-both and criticize them more or less equally but anti-trump folk seems to be "if you're not with me, your against me", when in reality I'm neither; the only thing I'm 'with' is human rights, but they don't care; all they see is an attack on their beloved and completely ignore the true nature of my standing.
I just want to point out that the majority of people are manipulated by massive corporations on a daily basis. They just use it for immediate profit by getting them to buy things. They could easily start manipulating people for political gain, of which they've tried in the past with varying degrees of success.
This is expressly what a constitutional federal republic (a specific type of democracy) is meant to prevent.
Just because he wasn't charged with treason doesn't mean he didn't commit treason by advocating an armed insurrection against our democracy. (See: the US post-Civil War Reconstruction Era for further examples.)
And if you want to why he wasn't charged for that, it's because of Republican Special Counsel Ken Starr's disastrous opinion that sitting presidents are above the law and can't be prosecuted, and must instead be impeached--which, if you remember, Trump was, not once but twice. Of course now Trump is arguing that he's still above the law and deserves "total immunity", which only further shows that he is, in fact, a wanna-be dictator.
Saying "Trump wasn't charged with a crime so therefore he did nothing wrong" and "Trump can't be charged with a crime because current and former US Presidents must have total immunity from prosecution" is very clearly circular logic.
Well, you should probably elect better representation if you feel he committed treason by telling people to peacefully and patriotically make their voices heard, and that super treasonous decree telling everyone to go home. Considering not even AOC or Ilhan Omar brought up charges of treason, gonna go ahead and guess that there's literally zero evidence, let alone reason to even try, but you seem to know more than they do. Also, for a dictator, he did a pretty piss poor job of remaining in power. Also pretty sure Ken Starr never stated sitting presidents are above the law, we do still have the impeachment process, which you also brought up.
Yes, he was impeached (brought up on charges) by a liberal house, but was subsequently acquitted (found not guilty) by a conservative senate.
Oh, he didn't need to be charged; it's been ruled that he fomented an insurrection in the Courts, and that's treason. Now that gets kicked up to SCOTUS for review, but here's where you're in trouble: if any higher Court including the SCOTUS wants to overturn that ruling, they're going to have to show their work as to why, and they can't, because it's simple fact as shown by the video evidence of the day and sworn testimony by everyone who didn't hide behind the Fifth Amendment.
Now. I don't expect you to accept any of that, but it's dangerous to go alone, so take this block. It won't help you, but much like everyone you've ever cared for I'll be happy never thinking about you again. Okay okay, that was excessive; I didn't really mean it. I'm sorry.
Pinpoint exactly how he tried to remain in power. The peaceful transition of power occurred on 1/20/21 as scheduled, nary a violent incident to be found. Your zeal to see a man you disagree with destroyed, being fed by pure idiots as well as some who have far more nefarious intentions, is undeniable. Reams of documents and thousands of hours of video evidence still haven't surfaced. Yet they keep feeding you lie after lie. If such evidence existed, it would be plastered all over the news, and I would stand beside you to throw him in prison.
On a different topic, but one that's more in line with the meme posted that started all this, do you agree that Biden should be impeached and put in prison for what remains of his life for the documents he was in no way legally allowed to take possession of after his time as vice president, nor were they secured in any way, shape or form? Or do you agree with AG Garland that he's unfit to stand trial?
A large group of people forcibly entered the Capitol, overwhelming law enforcement officers on site.
The mob was armed with a wide array of weapons, including metal bars from police barricades and officers' batons and riot shields.
The mob violently assaulted police officers throughout the day, using actual and threatened force.
The mob coordinated and demonstrated unity of purpose, marching through the Capitol, chanting threats against members of Congress and Vice President Pence.
Upon breaching the Capitol, the mob pursued its intended target—the certification of the presidential election—reaching the House and Senate chambers within minutes.
The mob's unified purpose was to hinder or prevent Congress from counting the electoral votes and certifying the 2020 presidential election, effectively halting the electoral certification process.
The transfer of power happened in spite of Trump, not because he didn't make the attempt. Rebut the Court, not me. But this would require you to read, which I know you won't do, and argue in good faith, which you aren't and won't.
As to your second topic: Of course, as long as you'll agree that whatever sentence Biden gets Trump also gets but to greater scale, to reflect the difference in both the number and sensitivity of the documents retained. See, that's the difference between Democrats and Republicans: we're willing to hold our leaders to account and we expect them to be subject to the same laws the rest of us are.
Sure a bunch of fuckwits did some dumb shit, and quite a few did some really bad shit. For all of them, I fully support throwing the book at them. However, there is zero proof that Trump is culpable in it.
If you really want to block me but can't, I'll go ahead and stop engaging you. I fully respect your wishes and I'm truly sorry if whatever I said somehow caused you grief. I wish the best for you and hope that someday you'll look back on this conversation objectively, and not through a lens polarized by political beliefs.
Read the ruling I linked and all the cited case law in it. Here's some relevant portions:
The question thus becomes whether the evidence before the district court sufficiently established that the events of January 6 constituted a concerted and public use of force or threat of force by a group of people to hinder or prevent the U.S. government from taking the actions necessary to accomplish the peaceful transfer of power in this country. We have little difficulty concluding that substantial evidence in the record supported each of these elements and that, as the district court found, the events of January 6 constituted an insurrection.
It is undisputed that a large group of people forcibly entered the Capitol and that this action was so formidable that the law enforcement officers onsite could not control it. Moreover, contrary to President Trump’s assertion that no evidence in the record showed that the mob was armed with deadly weapons or that it attacked law enforcement officers in a manner consistent with a violent insurrection, the district court found—and millions of people saw on live television, recordings of which were introduced into evidence in this case—that the mob was armed with a wide array of weapons. The court also found that many in the mob stole objects from the Capitol’s premises or from law enforcement officers to use as weapons, including metal bars from the police barricades and officers’ batons and riot shields and that throughout the day, the mob repeatedly and violently assaulted police officers who were trying to defend the Capitol. The fact that actual and threatened force was used that day cannot reasonably be denied.
Substantial evidence in the record further established that this use of force was concerted and public. As the district court found, with ample record support, “The mob was coordinated and demonstrated a unity of purpose . . . . They marched through the [Capitol] building chanting in a manner that made clear they were seeking to inflict violence against members of Congress and Vice President Pence.” And upon breaching the Capitol, the mob immediately pursued its intended target—the certification of the presidential election—and reached the House and Senate chambers within minutes of entering the building.
Finally, substantial evidence in the record showed that the mob’s unified purpose was to hinder or prevent Congress from counting the electoral votes as required by the Twelfth Amendment and from certifying the 2020 presidential election; that is, to preclude Congress from taking the actions necessary to accomplish a peaceful transfer of power. As noted above, soon after breaching the Capitol, the mob reached the House and Senate chambers, where the certification process was ongoing. Id. This breach caused both the House and the Senate to adjourn, halting the electoral certification process. In addition, much of the mob’s ire—which included threats of physical violence—was directed at Vice President Pence, who, in his role as President of the Senate, was constitutionally tasked with carrying out the electoral count.
If you want the links and citations, they're in the PDF; the text is largely unedited, I just removed paragraph markers and numbering. But you're not sorry, and you don't respect anyone. You'll deny and deflect and trot out any meaningless tripe in response to actual evidence, because you don't want to live in this reality. That's why I don't want to engage with you anymore. The best you've got is a "nuh-uh 🤡". Good luck with that, and good day.
I've read the "relevant portions", however, in them I still fail to see how Trump himself is implicated. It would be the same if I were to imply that the BLM riots in Minneapolis during 2020 were instigated by Maxine Waters. I'm not, as each individual chooses to riot, and implying that Waters, even with her rhetoric, is not the one at fault for the riot in Minneapolis, just as Trump is not responsible for the riot in DC. You'll forgive me if I don't trust a ruling handed down by a court that's sympathetic to Trump's opposition.
I'm more than happy to engage in a civil discussion about this, and any other issues, but from all sides, there's no "there" there when it comes to Trump as a traitor or insurrectionist. Simply a man who was upset about losing an election and the refusal of states to investigate into abnormalities, real OR imagined by the Trump campaign. If he truly was a dictator, he would have refused to leave on 1/20. He didn't. The peaceful transfer of power occurred like it has throughout our history. The lack of charges of treason and/or insurrection by now, especially with the different factions within both the democrat AND republican parties makes that quite clear - there's no evidence of such.
Literally not defending anyone. Learn to read. It’s in my post history disputing misinformation about Trump and clicking on the post show it as deleted but I know facts won’t get in the way of your feelings.
Sneaky edit! You couldnt find any instance of it being armed, could you????
Armed with what? Cameras and cellphones? Get your news from somewhere other than the daily kos. And I recall Hillary's plot to get electors to "vote their concious"
Guns, knives, blunt weapons, tasers, bear spray, hand cuffs and zip ties.
Taking the stand in the seditious conspiracy case against Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes and four associates, Terry Cummings showed jurors an AR-15 firearm and an orange box for ammunition that he contributed to the so-called quick reaction force the Oath Keepers had staged at the hotel outside of Washington in case they needed weapons.
“I had not seen that many weapons in one location since I was in the military,” said Cummings, a veteran who joined the Oath Keepers in Florida in 2020.
But a review of the federal charges against the alleged rioters shows that they did come armed, and with a variety of weapons: stun guns, pepper spray, baseball bats and flagpoles wielded as clubs. An additional suspect also allegedly planted pipe bombs by the headquarters of the Democratic and Republican parties the night before the riot and remains at large.
Online sleuths who have aided in hundreds of Jan. 6 prosecutions say he is the same man they identified to the FBI who is currently individual No. 200 on the bureau’s Capitol Violence page, which he first appeared on three years ago. Videos and photographs from the Capitol on Jan. 6 showed him with what appears to be a gun in his waistband. As NBC News previously reported, that man, John Emanuel Banuelos, told Salt Lake City police that he was at the Capitol and had been captured on film with a gun. “I was in the D.C. riots,” he told the investigators, according to a police transcript. “I’m the one in the video with the gun right here.”
And I recall Hillary’s plot to get electors to “vote their concious”
The source you've linked quotes Martin Sheen and other "celebrities", not Hillary Clinton, who conceded the election as someone who believed in democracy would (despite being much more popular than Trump and winning the national vote by millions).
Also, you should know that official electors are not always bound. As a Trump voter I know you're not big on education or knowledge, but if you want you can read all about unpledged electors here.
Meanwhile, what Trump and his gang of indicted co-conspirators did was to submit a slate of fraudulent and fake electors to the election certification process in order to literally steal swing state electoral college votes and appoint himself President. Or as he likes to say "dictator on day one".
The "dictator on day one" statement was made as a joke, but you know libs, no sense of humor.
I'm well aware that official electors are not bound. Precisely why Charlie Sheen and others made that video. With her fingerprints all over it.
Were any weapons brandished at the capitol riot, let alone a firearm? I'm sure the streets of DC are 100% completely free of any type of weapon, because, laws. Seems leaving your weapons in a hotel room would be pretty stupid if you're going to commit an "insurrection". I'd be willing to wager you cheered when James Hodgkinson shot up the republican softball game, an actual terrorist attack (terrorism being defined as -
"The use of violence or the threat of violence, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political goals."
Thanks, but I didn't need that confirmed by someone who doesn't know what treason looks like. As to the ballot, it's no skin off my nose if you want your state to waste every electoral college vote they're allotted.
The betrayal of allegiance toward one's own country, especially by committing hostile acts against it or aiding its enemies in committing such acts.
The betrayal of someone's trust or confidence.
The offense of attempting to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance, or of betraying the state into the hands of a foreign power; disloyalty; treachery.
Seems the one libs are all hanging their hat on is the 1st part of point 3. However, Trump was president on 1/6/21, so who was he trying to overthrow? Himself? Has he attempted to overthrow Biden in the ensuing years? If calling the election "rigged" can be construed as such, you've got an even bigger problem on your hands as Raskin, Waters, Schiff, among others, did the same in 2016, so they're traitors?
Now, if you want to talk about how Biden withheld a billion dollars from Ukraine unless the prosecutor investigating Burisma, and is now dumping billions of our dollars over there... and remember kids, Ukraine has never been our ally. If you feel it's prudent to start another proxy war with Russia, ask Afghanistan how that turned out.
Didn't Trump love to talk about that Alzheimers/Dementia-Test he once took and how well he performed and remembered that 5 things they asked him to remember?
This sounds like a joke I already heard. Maybe we can look up the dislike ratio from back then.
Your statement was about the cognitive test he was bragging about, that's what I was responding to. I fully admit that Trump will brag about anything, not sure where you were going with that statement. If you'd like to take it in another direction, feel free.
