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SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Apple being Apple again. Just why does anyone actually like that company?

Marketing and build quality goes a long way to making people feel like a company is good.

rikudou OP ,

What's this fabled build quality that other phones in the same price range don't have?

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Sure others have the same build quality, but not the decades of marketing that Apple has. You gotta have both to get people to be irrationally loyal to a company.

gearheart ,

It's all about brand and glam. Majority of people that need validation from others "need" to have an iPhone.

Xeroxchasechase ,

Don't forget the walled garden. Apple does have a reputation they worked hard to achieve, and people who don't know better feel compelled to try, but than, switching to Android becomes a very difficult task

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

Fuck apple with a cactus.

hemmes , (edited )
@hemmes@lemmy.world avatar

Lol, what phone are you using?

Edit: Why am I being downvoted? The dude said to fuck someone with a cactus. That's hilarious - no one else thinks that's funny? I'm still laughing lol

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

OnePlus 10 pro.

Would never sacrifice the flexibility and customizability of an Android device for the clunky and unintuitive UI of an iPhone.

scarilog ,

You can say many things about apple but clunky and unintuitive would not be it.

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

You only find Apple's UI intuitive because you're used to it.

I don't find it intuitive at all. Whenever I've used an iPhone, I've had to ask for help.

And I'm a full stack web developer, who contributes to some other software projects in my spare time. I've been around computers a fair bit.

Operating systems these days are complicated. It's difficult to make them immediately intuitive to a new user. This isn't a dig at Apple. Any modern, highly featured OS is like this.

PrivateNoob ,
@PrivateNoob@sopuli.xyz avatar

I've tried an Iphone XR for 1 month. It's intuitive, but Android is too.

aniki ,

Same. I have no idea how to use an iphone. Even basic things are frustrating.

scarilog ,

Just wanted to chime in that I'm not an apple user, I primarily use android and windows. iPad is the only iOS device I use. I flat out disagree with clunky, Apple's UI design (on iOS at least) is beautiful. UX wise, I can't comment on functional differences between Android and iOS, at this stage in time, both are comparably usable for most people.

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

Some apple user experience choices definitely feel clunky.

Plugging an iPhone into a computer to move files around is a nightmare. The way notifications work on iOS is extremely clunky. Pairing non-apple devices to your apple device is purposely made clunky. Bastardising PWAs has led to them being clunky af.

Using MacOS and having to memorise some wild keyboard shortcuts is clunky. Not being able to minimise a program by clicking the icon in the dock feels clunky. MacOS flipping out when you want to tile one window but not another feels clunky. Apple's workspace view and app menu view not being integrated together (a la Gnome Activities view) feels clunky. The whole app installation process (outside of the Mac store) is super clunky.

Apple is extremely visually consistent. But they absolutely have UX clunkiness, just as the others do. It's fine though, most people don't care. I'm pretty anal about these things.

hemmes ,
@hemmes@lemmy.world avatar

I mean this is all subjective of course, but something like installing apps on macOS is extremely easy. Like Windows, apps can install themselves in about three or so different ways (not including managed devices), but most macOS apps you download are simply dragged into the applications folder - that's it. To uninstall, you drag the app to the trash bin and empty the trash.

TheGrandNagus ,

To me that sounds clunky as fuck.

dustyData ,

I compel you to try to snap to tile a single windows to a side of the desktop in a macOS fresh install.

spoiler

You can't because, to do that thing that every single desktop environment can do out of the box, you need to install a third party app on macOS. This and many other QoL features that are bog standard on Windows and Linux today are not present on macOS.

Now, I want you to tell me out of the top of your head, what does pressing the green button achieves on the window for Safari? Do you think it will do the same on the settings window? What will it do for the App Store? Do you think it will do the same thing on all three or three different things? Which one do you expect?

Final challenge, make the window for the calculator stay on top of all other windows.

hemmes ,
@hemmes@lemmy.world avatar

So why fuck Apple? You're using an Android device, Apple has updated their software in a way that doesn't compel you to want to try an Apple device, end of story why all the vitriol?

I could see, maybe, if you were already an Apple user and wanted them to make a change that you want on your device. But having so much hate for a device you have no intention of using anyway?

rbits ,

This change impacts every mobile user, not just iPhone users. iPhones are a good portion of the userbase of most apps/websites. For PWAs to gain mass adoption, it needs to be available for the majority of users. This change means that will not be the case in the EU.

PWAs have just been doomed by Apple, and unless Apple reverts this change, they will now never be successful in the EU. And probably not even outside of the EU since non-european products still have european users.

hemmes ,
@hemmes@lemmy.world avatar

I don't think that's why this guy is mad

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

Motorola

hemmes ,
@hemmes@lemmy.world avatar

My man!

ninekeysdown ,
@ninekeysdown@lemmy.world avatar

I got it and it made me laugh

Mango ,

Sideways.

realitista , (edited )

How will this affect the Lemmy client Voyager? Is it considered a web app? My understanding was that it was.

rikudou OP ,

As far as I know, it is a web app, meaning it could no longer be installed and will only work as a bookmark that opens your default browser.

Silic0n_Alph4 ,

No? It’s in the App Store! https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/voyager-for-lemmy/id6451429762 This PWA charge will only affect websites that you pin to your Home Screen.

realitista ,

Ah didn't know it was in the App Store now. Good. Thanks.

paschko_mato , (edited )

been there since the Reddit Exodus or shortly after

Edit: ok I looked into my app history, installed Mlem on 22.07.23 and Voyager on 17.09.23, felt like a week in my memory.. But Voyager is not new in the iOS Appstore and IMHO was one of the best Lemmy Apps for iOS since launch.

PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

It definitely wasn’t there during the exodus. IIRC, there were also some features missing from it when it hit the App Store too, so the web app was still the better choice.

cloudless ,
@cloudless@feddit.uk avatar

Official announcement from Voyager:

Using an iPhone in the EU? Please install the Voyager native app. Apple is killing support for PWAs

MrSpArkle ,

It is, they have an official app store app as well though. However I find mlem to be a smoother experience, particularly scrolling, and it tends to keep its position when being backgrounded better than memmy and voyager.

yildolw ,

This is probably motivated by the EU decision that since no uses iMessage in the EU, Apple is not legally a "gatekeeper". Perhaps no one (i.e. fewer than 40 million people) uses web apps in the EU, therefore they are gambling that they are allowed to legally gatekeep in that market

rikudou OP ,

I don't think so, they're just trying to make the experience worse and then say "it's the EU that made us do it".

smileyhead ,

Or like others speculate, to not allow third party browsers to do PWAs.

eagles_fan ,

Another reason to keep hating apple. Fascists corporate america

Eggyhead , (edited )

Welp, this might be kbin for me. It’s the only circumstance I’ve really found a PWA necessary, although I’ve considered making PWAs of some online shops I frequent.

I suspect Apple is eliminating PWAs from safari in the EU just because they don’t want to be forced to allow 3rd party browsers to do the same. Let’s go ahead and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I’ve actually got a U.S. apple account on an iPhone bought in Japan, and living in the EU temporarily. It’ll be interesting to see how this is going to play out for me.

Marthirial ,

That shit brand created a cult for dimwits thinking they are better and smarter than everybody else by becoming platform slaves, and thus be exploited, as their only benefit of their deficiencies and dependency is consumism.

Tautvydaxx ,

In real life ive never met anyone who thinks owning one brand of things makes you better than anyone else. If you have friends that think that way, maybe dont be friends with them, thats toxic. If it realy annoys you, block them so you dont see them online, lower the negativity impact on your mind. If you dont want to support a brand that has a product you want, buy it used so they dont get any money.

dustyData ,

I guess you haven't met the San Francisco twats that were driving around in Teslas while wearing Vision Pros. Just because you haven't met one doesn't mean they don't exist.

Link ,

Does this affect the UK as well as they aren’t in the European Union anymore?

rikudou OP ,

Most likely not, UK does not use EU laws anymore.

nyakojiru ,
@nyakojiru@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Holy shit if this is true it will be a game changer for me . Will be start looking android devices. Such a retrograde movement!

rikudou OP ,

Well, definitely sounds like something they'd do. EU might force them not to, though. Only time will tell how it turns out. But definitely recommend the move to Android!

jose1324 ,

It is true

sagrotan ,
@sagrotan@lemmy.world avatar

Whoever buys apple shit will learn eventually. Or just go extinct.

DirigibleProtein ,

A lot of kerfuffle over not much. If you’re going to release a web app instead of a proper app, then I’m quite happy to have a bookmark to the web page instead of a bullshit fake app wrapping the same bookmark. Don’t clutter my phone with that garbage.

QuandaleDingle ,

And you're right for feeling that way, but having more choices is always better, not less. Apple doesn't care for how you use their software if it isn't the way they want it.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Most PWAs are trash, but there are some nice ones out there that feel a lot better when you ditch the browser chrome. Voyager for Lemmy is a good one. It feels native.

abhibeckert ,

Most native apps are trash too.

Nomad ,

Progressive web apps do much more than just wrap a bookmark....

rikudou OP ,

Well, I'm definitely not paying Apple $99 a year to be on their shit store, so I've opted for PWA. It's made as an app from the scratch, not really much different from a native app.

abhibeckert ,

It's more than that - for example in Safari after seven days with a bookmark, all data the website stores on device is deleted.

With a PWA saved to your home screen, your data is kept until you delete the icon from your home screen.

Also, PWAs don't have a browser toolbar.

Fuzzypyro ,

As a sysadmin and self-hoster this decision will absolutely make me drop Apple 150%. A clean and well implemented pwa was a big reason I have stuck with my iPhone 12 despite buying a pixel 7. I know there are options on Android but they all have issues either in ux or in ui that makes it very obvious I’m using a pwa.

Pantherina ,

Aah, the security again...

Fuck this company

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Apple is officially axing support for progressive web apps for iPhone users located in the European Union.

While web apps have been broken for EU users in every iOS 17.4 beta so far, Apple has now confirmed that this is a feature, not a bug.

In an update to its developer website spotted by 9to5Mac, Apple says it’s removing homescreen apps for users in the EU because bringing them into compliance with the Digital Markets Act (DMA) would involve “an entirely new integration architecture” that’s “not practical” to build on top of the other changes it’s been forced to make.

In its post, Apple argues that web apps are built “directly on WebKit” — the engine used by Safari — allowing web apps to “align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS.” With the change to iOS 17.4, websites added to the homescreen now act only as bookmarks that open a new tab in your browser, rather than (potentially) standalone services capable of doing things like sending notifications and showing badges, a feature Apple just added to web apps last year.

Progressive web apps on iOS are also capable of storing data separately from your browser instance, which comes in handy if there’s a site you want quick access to and don’t want to keep signing in.

“Still, we regret any impact this change — that was made as part of the work to comply with the DMA — may have on developers of Home Screen web apps and our users.” Apple cites “very low user adoption” of homescreen apps as another reason for the lack of support.

The original article contains 399 words, the summary contains 272 words. Saved 32%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

RiQuY ,

TL;DR: Fuck Apple.

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