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commie

@commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com

i am more than willing to engage on any positive claim you want to make (i probably agree with a lot of them). what i’m not willing to do is tolerate personal attacks and dogpiling.

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commie OP ,

here's a sidechannel attack on your position: every use, even infringing uses, are fair use until adjudicated, because what fair use means is that a court has agreed that your infringing use is allowed. so of course ai training (broadly) is always fair use. but particular instances of ai training may be found to not be fair use, and so we can't be sure that you are always going to be right (for the specific ai models that may come into question legally).

commie OP ,

this will need to be proved in court

this is true of all fair use. this is almost the definition of fair use. Fair use can only exist after a judge has adjudicated it. before it is questionable.

commie OP ,

Selling an AI model (or usage of that model) that allows for producing works that are clearly based upon those copyrighted works and would be considered copyright infringement if a person did the same thing is not fair use

it is.

commie OP ,

If a person creating the same thing as generative AI would be infringing, then it isn’t magically not infringing because it is on the internet or done by a program

no one is arguing otherwise.

commie OP ,

That does mean that the AI also needs to be trained to not create copyright infringing works if the use of the AI is being sold.

no it doesn't.

commie OP ,

if someone pays a company to use their AI to create infringing work, that is on the company and they are just as at fault as if they sold T shirts that infringed on copyright.

wrong.

commie OP ,

If you ask the AI to write poetry in the style of the book’s poems and you publish the AI’s poetry, I suspect it might be considered laundering copyright and infringing.

is the image of a cabin in a snowy landscape copyrighted by Thomas kinkade? fuck no. That's an idea. ideas can't be copyrighted. a style isn't a discreet work. it is an idea. it can't be copyrighted. if I produce something in the style of Keats or Stephen King or Rowling, they can't sue me for copyright unless I make a substantially infringing use of their work. The style isn't sufficient, because the style can't be copyrighted.

commie OP ,

I don't see how selling a model or the use of a model infringes on a specific copyright. whose copyright has been infringed? how can you prove that? take AI out of the question. if you wanted to prove that some other author has infringed the copyright on your novel, how would you do that? if you want to prove that some quote unquote artist has infringed on your copyright, how would you do that? if any of your methods for proving that a person has infringed on your copyright is applicable to an AI, then that's what that is. but if you can't prove it, if the AI just learned about how style works, if an AI just saw your work but never actually copied it, then it's not infringing.

commie OP ,

in the ethical sense, everything is fair use. period.

in the legal sense, everything is fair use until it's proven in court not to be.

commie OP ,

instead of making 4 replies in 3 minutes

each averaging

2.75 words

this is irrelevant to the truth of my claim.

commie OP ,

if anybody gets a copy of it, they have no ethical obligation not to share it, and every ethical justification for sharing it.

commie OP ,

this reads like an appeal to ridicule. if you have an objection to what I said please state it.

commie OP ,

I presented exactly as much justification for my claims as the people to whom I was responding.

commie OP ,

an appeal to ridicule is also called a horse laugh fallacy. it's like writing lol instead of actually explaining what's wrong with the position to which your objecting. this response also reads like an appeal to ridicule. if you can't explain what's wrong with my position, maybe you shouldn't be speaking about my position.

commie OP ,

You think you’re entitled to the fruits of others’ labor.

this isn't what I said. it's a straw man.

commie OP ,

You’ve already done a fine job of explaining exactly what’s wrong with your position

I've only stated my position. I haven't actually provided any justification one way or the other. your suggestion that I have sounds like gas lighting.

commie OP ,

it's not what I said. I'm not relying on Wikipedia: I'm relying on my degree.

commie OP ,

are you saying that selling a book that has the same characters as a recently released book doing the same things but with wording differences is somehow fair use? Like a book called Harry Potter and the Something Rock with the exact same plot points but worded slightly different is fair use?

no. I was saying selling an AI model or access to it that is capable of producing that work is not, itself, copyright infringement.

in fact, do you know what a clean room is? if I provided to a writing team every English language work except those written by JK Rowling and it produced a work exactly like you're describing, The resultant work would not be infringing copyright. it should not be any different for AI where you cannot prove what materials it was provided.

commie OP ,

what do you think argument ad absurdum is?

commie OP ,

no.

commie OP ,

intent does matter for fair use claims, and knowledge matters for bare infringement.

commie OP ,

If you aren't paying them you are being provided a service.

if you ARE paying them, you're being provided a service, too

commie OP ,

They've given you knowledge/ material in their possession free of charge.

this is a very common human activity

commie OP ,

You are taking advantage of that good will by using the content for purposes not intended. That is a moral failing.

only if there were so e sort of agreement about what the acceptable uses are and what is not acceptable.

commie ,

bibi sent me a suitcase full of cash for you. where do you want me to leave it?

commie ,

I want to be friends, so don't tell me what to do.

commie ,

everyone's rights are controlled by politics

commie ,

oh wow, I never even thought about this! probably because it doesn't fucking matter. I can't believe humanity collectively wasted 4million hours on this in 2 days.

edit

hey guess who didn't look at which user made this post before talking shit.

whoops

commie ,

You cite sources and give credit, or you don't publish.

why?

commie ,

Cutting out meat is already making an intense impact

i doubt it.

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