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trollbearpig

@trollbearpig@lemmy.world

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Do you think people would be okay with 'Recall' if Apple did it?

With the recent WWDC apple made some bold claims about privacy when it comes to so called Apple Intelligence. This makes me wonder if they did something to what Microsoft did with Recall feature, would people be less concerned and to an extend praise their effort?...

trollbearpig ,

And Apple has earned any trust? Jesus christ people, like less than 2 months ago they were caught restoring "deleted" photos from iCloud to user devices hahahahaha. Of course fans were excusing them talking about disk sectors like that has anything to do with cloud storage being available accidentally hahahaha.

But yeah, Apple cult followers will find a way to justify surrendering even more freedom to Apple with this BS for sure. And they will be paying top dollar for the pleasure hahahaha.

trollbearpig , (edited )

To be fair, the conversations I have seen usually start with people complaining about whatever the latest Windows shitfuckery is. Some well intendend, but clearly naive, linux user suggests to just switch to linux. After all, the OPs usually complain in a linux community, what else do they expect?

Then they, or sometimes a different user than the first one, say something like "but switching to linux is work and I have to learn a new thing" like a dumbass. After that it's almost impossible, IMO, to have a constructive conversation. Other people from the community get so mad that the conversation becomes a religious argument hahaha. After all, how do you help people that want to fix their problems while at the same time they refuse to change or learn anything? And on top of that they get so self rigtheous when people dare to suggest literally anything. The only solution they want is for Microsoft to magically stop being Microsoft and fix Windows hahaha, I hope they get comfortable while they wait hahaha.

Honestly I don't even try. Yes, Microsoft is the one fucking people over. But people are proud of their lack of knowledge when it comes to computers and refuse to even learn the little bit that will actually fix their problems. And that's on people, not on Microsoft. I just let them enjoy Windows, they deserve it.

trollbearpig , (edited )

I get that. But then I don't go to car forums to complain about my car and then get mad when they suggest my car is shit and I need to change it hahahaha. My point is, these people only want to complain instead of fixing things, and it's very annoying. Don't get me wrong, they can complain as much as they want as far as I care. But I wish they would complain somewhere else, it's just noise if they are not willing to do anything.

trollbearpig ,

I love how people like you sometimes stumble into weird truths hahaha. Like yeah, the stupid medical system you guys have in the US sucks even for people with money (luckily I'm from a latin american country that's not yet a pro/anti US dictatorship, but soon ...). Like it's that ridiculous, even people with money in the US end up fucking themselves medically, that's the freedom you get from that stupid healthcare system hahahaha. And people like you have stockholm syndrom.

Sadly this is infecting my country too, famous and rich people now have pennywise white teeth lol. For now I don't feel too bad for them, fuck these pricks wasting money in this shit while people go hungry here. But I do feel a bit sad for them.

trollbearpig , (edited )

Sorry, but he is obviously proud of that. Look at his response https://lemm.ee/comment/12363119. He is clearly so much smarter than the rest of us, so he doesn't realize the dumb shit he is saying hahahaha.

trollbearpig , (edited )

Hahahahahaha, nice one. But I suspect people will actually trust you more with your titanium teeth lol.

trollbearpig ,

I'm sorry if you meant something else dude. But read your comment and your reply and see what you actually said dude. You sound like you are saying that rich people are so smart and well protected from their bad decision by your healthcare system, so they are not whitening their teeth? Hell, even if you were right about this you don't provide any evidence or arguments for anything you said, you were just rude and condescending to everyone.

Again, I'm sorry if you meant something else. But people missinterpreting here is on you man.

trollbearpig ,

Look man. This comment is actually very different to your initial comment, and honestly it sounds very reasonable to me.

But can you explain to me what you were trying to say in the original comment please? Again, to me it reads like you are saying "rich and famous people are not whitening their teeths in the USA" which is factually incorrect. And to top it off, it looks like you are saying "it's impossible for rich people to get bad healthcare in the US because they have money", which is non sense as shown by this example of teeth whitening. And the more I read this comment, plus your very rude response ("are you okay?" Seriously dude, that's no way to have a conversation even if you were right), the more it looks like this is what you are saying. And that's what I was answering to.

I'm not saying, and I never said, that you think the healthcare system in the US is good. But the more I re read your comments, the less I understand what you were trying to say if it's not what I "quoted" above.

trollbearpig , (edited )

Or maybe you could actually read the comment you are replying to instead of being so confrontational? They are literally making the same point you are making, except somehow you sound dismissive, like we just need to take it.

In case you missed it they were literally saying that the fact that the real cost of running software (like the AI recall bullshit) is externalized to consumers makes companies don't give a shit about fixing this. Like literally the same you are saying. And this means that we all, as a society, are just wasting a fuck ton of resources. But capitalism is so eficient hahaha.

But come on man, you really think that the only option is for us to run corporate machines in our homes? I don't know if I should feel sorry about your lack of imagination, or if you are trying to strawman us here. I'm going to assume lack of imagination, don't assume malice and all that.

For example, that's what simple legislation could do. For example, lets say I buy an cellphone/computer, then buy an app/program for that device, and the device has the required specifications to run the software. The company that sold me that software should be obligated by law to give me a version of the software that runs in my machine forever. This is not a lot to ask for, this is literally how software worked before the internet.

But now, behind the cover of security and convenience, this is all out of the window. Each new windows/macos/ios/android/adobe/fucking anything update asks for more and more hardware and little to no meaningful new functionality. So we need to keep upgrading and upgrading, and spending and spending.

But this is not a given, we can do better with very little sacrifices.

trollbearpig , (edited )

Hahahahahahahahahaha. Just like crypto obsesion gave us cheap crypto chips in all personal computers? Get real dude, this is just a way for them to steal even more data from people. Nothing good will come from this. Quite the oposite, we will see yet another price increase in hardware because all AI dumbasses will hoard them yet again. Don't forget these are the same morons that were pushing for cryptos and nfcs hahaha. These are people who believe in magic free money, too bad they sometimes get it because our society is built by retards. I really can't stand people looking for a possitive in this dissaster ...

trollbearpig , (edited )

Nah dude. TPMs have always been about implementing DRMs. These companies hate that they can't control our PCs, they want to be sure we can only run their approved apps. Like it works in iOS and (to a lesser degree for now) in Android. And even there they are pushing hard for even more restrictive DRM.

For example, some years ago I worked with a SaaS that implemented and sold some security products. One of our customers was a big retailer (for specialized products, not going into more details to avoid doxxing) that was having a problem with scalpers buying all their inventory as soon as they released it. So they were trying to put a show for regulators about stopping scalpers because their customers were complaining. We suggested that the only real solution was to have some real life verification of purchases. But in the end they went with the awful attestation APIs offered by Apple and Google to "fix" this. And in case you are not familiar, these APIs are just TPM based DRMs. So now, if you have a rooted/jailbroken phone you can't even buy with this retailer anymore.

Note that this company wasn't trying to fuck customers directly, they were just lazy and incentivised to not really fix the problem (a sale is a sale, even if to a scalper). But even then the end result is that their customers got their digital freedom rights restricted. It's just a terrible technology IMO, the incentives from companies are all terrible. And that's before we start considering the real intentions of awful companies like Microsoft, Apple and Google. IMO they are actually pushing for techno feudalism, but that's my conspiracy theory hahaha.

So no, I doubt they were thinking about security with this recall bullshit. As other people have explained in their comments it doesn't really protect much in practice. Plus this whole AI push has just been a stupid scramble from these companies to grab a big piece of the stupid AI pie from other companies hahaha, there is no long term plan here, don't lie to yourself and us.

trollbearpig ,

I looove how the people at Google are so dumb that they forgot that anything resembling real intelligence in ChatGPT is just cheap labor in Africa (Kenya if I remember correctly) picking good training data. So OpenAI, using an army of smart humans and lots of data built a computer program that sometimes looks smart hahaha.

But the dumbasses in Google really drank the cool aid hahaha. They really believed that LLMs are magically smart so they feed it reddit garbage unfiltered hahahaha. Just from a PR perspective it must be a nigthmare for them, I really can't understand what they were thinking here hahaha, is so pathetically dumb. Just goes to show that money can't buy intelligence I guess.

trollbearpig ,

I'm sorry to be rude, but do you have anything to contribute here? I mean, I'm probably wrong in several points, that's what happens when you are as opinionated as I am hahaha. But your comment is useless man, do better.

trollbearpig ,

I'm probably late, but in this case this is the combinations of 2 things.

  1. The usual capitalistic incentives ruined yet another company. There was a recent article about how Google pushed out the people who builded and maintaned search on favor of MBA growth focused assholes. Like they put the guy that was Yahoo's CEO while Yahoo search was crumbling, in charge of Google search to get him to increase the amount of searches they serve, and ads obviously. People keep suggesting to use DDG, or Kagi, or some other comercial product. And for now, we must because Google is basically useless right now. But just give time to the other companies to fall in the same trap hahaha.
  2. LLMs are not smart, not even close. They are just a parlor trick that has non technical people fooled. There is a lot of evidence to me, but to me the most obvious one is that they don't have anything resembling human short term memory. Like the way they make them look like they are having a conversation is by providing the entire conversation up to that point, including their own previous responses lol, as input/context so the bot autocompletes the conversation. It literally can't remember a single word of what you said on it's own. But sureee, they are just like humans lol.

So what we have here is obvious, we have a company trying to grow like cancer by any means necessary. And now they have a technology that allows them to create enough smoke and mirrors to fool non technical people. Sadly, as part of this they are also destroying the last places of the internet not fully controlled by corporations. Let's hope lemmy survives, but it's just a matter of time before they flood this place too.

trollbearpig ,

Can you point me to the paper/article/whatever where this is being discussed please? I'm actually interested on learning about it. Even if I don't like the way they are using the technology, I'm still a programmer at hearth and would love to read about this.

To the point of the conversation, honestly man that was just an example of the many problems I see with this. But you have to understand that people like you keep asking us for proof that LLMs are not smart. But come on man, you are the ones claiming you solved the hard problem of mind, on the first try no less hahaha. You are the ones with the burden of proof here and you have provided nothing of the sort. Do better people or stop trying to confuse us with retoric.

trollbearpig ,

Oh, you are talking about this https://help.openai.com/en/articles/8590148-memory-faq hahahaha. I'm sorry man, but you are a moron or arguing in bad faith. That's yet another feature where they inject even more shit in the context/input to make it feel like the thing has memory. That's literally yet another example of what I was pointing out, so thanks for confirming my suspicions. Seriously dude, do better if you really want to have a conversation. Your response made me waste my time, and on top of that you insult me hahaha.

trollbearpig , (edited )

Hahaha, I don't know why people are so shocked. I'm sure we will see anything useful with AIs anytime soon, just like with crypto hahaha.

In the mean time, it's obvious these companies are using AIs as an excuse to bypass laws and regulations, and people are cheering them ...They are bypassing copyright laws (in a direct attack to open source) with their autocomplete bots, but we should not worry, it's not copyright infrigment because the LLMs are smart (right), so that makes it ok ... They are using this to steal the work of real artists through image generation bots, but people love this for some reason. And they are using this to bypass the few privacy laws in place now, like Facebook/Meta could ever have another incentive.

Maybe I'm extremist, but if the only useful thing we are getting from this is mediocre code autocomplete that works sometimes, I think the price we are paying is way too high. Too bad I'm in the minority here.

trollbearpig ,

Only Google, Microsoft and Meta are playing the field anyway. The investment in energy alone you need to get these kinds of results is absurd. The only economically viable alternative is open source IMO, and I doubt that's going to happen if these companies have any say in the matter. Funnily enough, this also fixes the training data problem, it can be created by consent like any open source collaboration. But instead we need to allow rampant copyright infrigment hahahaha.

And about the games, I guess we will see if we ever see any of them, like in the real world. To me games are about playing, not about almost human NPCs anyway. But for tastes colors and all that, I'm the first to admit I have weird tastes lol.

trollbearpig ,

Nah dude, you need to build an opinion of your own lol. No chart is doing that for you.

trollbearpig ,

Oh, ups. Sorry lol.

trollbearpig ,

I don't know man. I mean, if you assume that the people that were doing the art, music, code, etc, that's being stolen were not going to get paid anyway then yeah. If they were doing shit just for love they may continue, and with new toys lol.

But I don't think that's a good assumption. Even if not a lot, sone people do get paid for this kind of work. And now they will not get paid anymore. And maybe that's leveling the playing field. Or maybe that's telling people with talent to stop doing what they do well. Probably both. But at the end of the day we are going to see less art made by people and more done by "AI", much more done by "AI".

And that's the biggest problem IMO, for most people art is social and part of the reward is the recognition we get from other people when we do good art. But with AI that's gone, on the internet at least. The sea or superficially good but mediocre shit we are already seeing is going to kill a lot of indie art.

And then there is hallucinations which seem unsolvable ... and the environmental damage ... and the labor practices abuses ... and their monopolization of the technology ... and their missleading marketing ... I honestly just see so much damage and almost no benefit, yet ... maybe some day it all will pay off, I don't see it

trollbearpig ,

Man, I hate this semantics arguments hahaha. I mean yeah, if we define AI as anything remotely intelligent done by a computer sure, then it's AI. But then so is an if in code. I think the part you are missing is that terms like AI have a definition in the collective mind, specially for non tech people. And companies using them are using them on purpose to confuse people (just like Tesla's self driving funnily enough hahaha).

These companies are now trying to say to the rest of society "no, it's not us that are lying. Is you people who are dumb and don' understand the difference between AI and AGI". But they don't get to define what words mean to the rest of us just to suit their marketing campagins. Plus clearly they are doing this to imply that their dumb AIs will someday become AGIs, which is nonsense.

I know you are not pushing these ideas, at least not in the comment I'm replying. But you are helping these corporations push their agenda, even if by accident, everytime you fall into these semantic games hahaha. I mean, ask yourself. What did the person you answered to gained by being told that? Do they understand "AIs" better or anything like that? Because with all due respect, to me you are just being nitpicky to dismiss valid critisisms to this technology.

trollbearpig ,

Sorry, but no man. Or rather, what evidence do you have that LLMs are anything like a human brain? Just because we call them neural networks doesn't mean they are networks of neurons ... You are faling to the same fallacy as the people who argue that nazis were socialists, or if someone claimed that north korea was a democratic country.

Perceptrons are not neurons. Activation functions are not the same as the action potential of real neurons. LLMs don't have anything resembling neuroplasticity. And it shows, the only way to have a conversation with LLMs is to provide them the full conversation as context because the things don't have anything resembling memory.

As I said in another comment, you can always say "you can't prove LLMs don't think". And sure, I can't prove a negative. But come on man, you are the ones making wild claims like "LLMs are just like brains", you are the ones that need to provide proof of such wild claims. And the fact that this is complex technology is not an argument.

trollbearpig ,

Nah man, they don't freeze the model because they think we will ruin it with our racism hahaha, that's just their PR bullshit. They freeze them because they don't know how to make the thing learn in real time like a human. We only know how to use backpropagatuon to train them. And this is expected, we haven't solved the hard problem of the mind no matter what these companies say.

Don't get me wrong, backpropagation is an amazing algorithm and the results for autocomplete are honestly better than I expected (though remeber that a lot of this is just underpaid workers in africa that pick good training data). But our current understanding of how human learns points to neuroplasticity as the main mechanism. And then here come all these AI grifters/companies saying that somehow backpropagation produces the same results. And I haven't seen a single decent argument for this.

trollbearpig ,

Man, can you people stop with this BS. One thing is if the photos where recovered from the local storage using some "forensics" to retrieve files from the free sectors in the hard drive. But that's not what is going on here. These photos are comming back from iCloud after apple pinky sweared they had deleted them. The conclusion here is that apple is keeping your photos (and most likely all your data) in their cloud even after you explicitly tell them to delete them.

I can't believe people with "tech literacy" are just repeating apple's excuse like gosspel and then lecturing other people ...

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