Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

SulaymanF ,

It’s not hallucination, the proper word is Confabulation. Can we as a collective fix this now before we get stuck with the wrong word for the next 30 years?

HawlSera ,

It's just a fucking Chinese Room

androogee ,

Look my wife is gonna dispute that charge.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

And humans aren't?

HawlSera ,

Correct

technocrit ,

TBH I hate the term "hallucination" in this context. It's just more BS anthropomorphizing. More marketing for "AI" (also BS). Can't we just call it like garbage or GIGO or something more accurate? This is nothing new. I know that scientific accuracy is anathema to AI marketing but just saying...

Dasus ,
@Dasus@lemmy.world avatar

Can’t we just call it like garbage or GIGO or something more accurate?

Gibberish?

utopiah ,

scientific accuracy is anathema to AI marketing

Even though I agree in this context “hallucination” is actually the scientific term. It might be poorly chosen but in LLM circles if you use the term hallucination, the vast majority of people, will understand precisely what you mean, namely not an error in programming, or a bad dataset, but rather that the language model worked well, generating sentences that are syntactically correct, that are roughly thematically coherent, and yet are factually incorrect.

So I obviously don't want to support marketing BS, in AI or elsewhere, but here sadly it matches the scientific naming.

PS: FWIW I believed I made a similar critic few months, or maybe even years, ago. IMHO what's more important is arguably questioning the value of LLMs themselves, but then it might not be as evident for many people who are benefiting from the current buzz.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

It's not, actually. Hallucinations are things that effectively "come out of nowhere", information that was not in the training material or the provided context. In this case Google Overview is presenting information that is indeed in the provided context. These aren't hallucinations, the AI is doing what it's being told to do. The problem is that Google isn't doing a good job of providing it with the right information to summarize.

My suspicion is that since Google is using this AI for all search results it's had to cut back the resources it's providing to each individual call, which means it's only being given a small amount of context to work from. Bing Chat does a much better job, but it's drawing from many more search results and is given the opportunity to say a lot more about them.

utopiah ,

FWIW https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.06796

KeenFlame ,

We don't choose. It's decided to be the term for this. Computer bugs aren't bugs. Etc etc. It's just what the scientists called it

SulaymanF ,

It’s actually confabulation. Making up false memories as a result of brain damage.

Disaster ,

I mean.. yeah layoff a whole bunch of people and start treating your employees like replaceable commodities.. then go ahead and arrogantly deploy technology you don't understand and :surprisepikachu: everything breaks.

But management get to do things without personal consequence, as they'll just lay off more workers to cover their absolute incompetence and things will continue to get worse.

Perhaps we should be replacing C-suite dipshits with AI's instead.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

brave got there first (wnd you can turn it off)

biofaust ,

This is what I love about Mike Judge's work.
It turns out to be always the best metaphor/reference/prophecy of the boring dystopia.
Since 1999.

Bahnd ,

Idiocracy is the most unrealistic sci-fi/apocolyptic film ever made. President Comacho finds the most qualified person to help with a crisis, asks them for advice and then doesnt take credit for it. Noone put in a position of power would ever do that.

biofaust ,

He used Not Sure as a smokescreen since the beginning, the whole point is that he never really understood what was going on.
I am quite sure that American presidents are approaching that level of idiocy.

moistclump ,

Tinfoil hat time. Do you think Google intended this to work well? Or are we talking a lot more about Google and LLMs than we would have otherwise?

Death_Equity ,

I defer to hubris in most of these cases.

I am guessing that the people who made the decision to train on Reddit had no idea what type of place Reddit actually was just a short time ago. Maybe they heard of Reddit, maybe they noticed how useful Reddit was in search results, maybe they browsed Reddit and only saw the facade; what they definitely didn't do is be a Redditor for years.

Any Redditor on that team either kept their mouth shut because how funny the end result would be or was ignored.

MargotRobbie ,
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

On the other hand, all these AI errors by Google have made for some great memes recently.

pkmkdz ,

LLM aka a Large Language Memes

gari_9812 ,

Seems like LLM's true value is comedy value

cordlesslamp ,

Today I caught myself unconsciously went to Duckduckgo to make a search (even tho the browser start page is already google).

Thinking back, I've been using duckduckgo more than google, and often because I can't find what I'm looking for on Google but ads and autogenerated fake webpages.

History will prove it once again, there's no such thing as "too big to fail".

tb_ ,
@tb_@lemmy.world avatar

There's no better time to switch your default search engine!

vonbaronhans ,

DDG is just Bing. At least as far as the core search algorithm goes.

Unfortunately, my experience is the opposite. I tried to use DDG for about a month and consistently found myself giving up, Googling instead, and finding a relevant stack overflow page or reddit thread or whatever on the first page of results.

cordlesslamp ,

Yeah sometimes it do be like that, especially if you're searching for some obscure things or localized events the DDG is still worse than GG.

Prox ,

Have you just, I dunno, used Bing?

Gonna be an unpopular opinion, but for me Bing is more useful than DDG. Note that I didn't say, "better"... I know that increase in relevance of results for Bing stems from the fact that they roll all my historical info into what they serve up.

vonbaronhans ,

I used Bing by default for several months just because that's what my work laptop's browser had for default.

I never directly compared those results to DDG, but 9/10 times I would get frustrated by the lack of relevant results and go back to Google, where I'd find something useful on the first page of results.

Prox ,

Interesting! Did your results have that copilot summary thing? I get most of my answers there without having to visit a handful of ad-laden sites myself, though it also cites its references in case I don't trust the summary.

vonbaronhans ,

Not so much, maybe towards the last month of that period defaulting to Bing. I think it was still being constantly rebranded then. It was still pretty new, so I never really trusted it for anything and just went to the sites in the results.

SeattleRain ,

Does anyone have a realistic idea of how this happened? I get Google has been fallen off for awhile but they're still a multi billion dollar company.

BaskinRobbins ,

I can't imagine a ton of the people working there give a shit anymore when it seems like thousands of people are being layed off weekly while the company takes in billions in profit

SeattleRain ,

So like a quit quitting revolt.

trashgirlfriend ,

Worked for a company that had google as a client:

Google sucks, everyone who works there is an idiot who sniffs their ass all day, nothing works, nothing gets fixed, it's all just held together with duct tape.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Easy: worse results with more ads means more searches and thus more ad impressions, therefore profit.

That'll only work for so long, but that seems to be what they're doing.

Vivendi ,
@Vivendi@lemmy.zip avatar

AI doesn't exist. It's a huge model that aggregates existing shit with some filler content to glue it all together. It is not sentient, it's not creative, it's literally a stochastic parrot

So, when the original content is garbage, the output is also garbage. Shit in shit out when you train from fucking Reddit

asdfasdfasdf ,

I mean, isn't garbage in garbage out also true of humans?

ComplexLotus ,

Humans may test garbage knowledge in real life and experience failure. So in that sense no?

asdfasdfasdf ,

Ah, interesting. So is the difference that a true AI would understand how to use the scientific method to test inputs?

trollbearpig ,

I'm probably late, but in this case this is the combinations of 2 things.

  1. The usual capitalistic incentives ruined yet another company. There was a recent article about how Google pushed out the people who builded and maintaned search on favor of MBA growth focused assholes. Like they put the guy that was Yahoo's CEO while Yahoo search was crumbling, in charge of Google search to get him to increase the amount of searches they serve, and ads obviously. People keep suggesting to use DDG, or Kagi, or some other comercial product. And for now, we must because Google is basically useless right now. But just give time to the other companies to fall in the same trap hahaha.
  2. LLMs are not smart, not even close. They are just a parlor trick that has non technical people fooled. There is a lot of evidence to me, but to me the most obvious one is that they don't have anything resembling human short term memory. Like the way they make them look like they are having a conversation is by providing the entire conversation up to that point, including their own previous responses lol, as input/context so the bot autocompletes the conversation. It literally can't remember a single word of what you said on it's own. But sureee, they are just like humans lol.

So what we have here is obvious, we have a company trying to grow like cancer by any means necessary. And now they have a technology that allows them to create enough smoke and mirrors to fool non technical people. Sadly, as part of this they are also destroying the last places of the internet not fully controlled by corporations. Let's hope lemmy survives, but it's just a matter of time before they flood this place too.

afraid_of_zombies ,

including their own previous responses lol, as input/context so the bot autocompletes the conversation. It literally can’t remember a single word of what you said on it’s own.

Chatgpt has had memory from previous conversations for about a month now and it's context window is no longer fixed. Additionally it has the ability to assign sentences to memory on its own. So if it "thinks" what you said is important it saves it.

trollbearpig ,

Can you point me to the paper/article/whatever where this is being discussed please? I'm actually interested on learning about it. Even if I don't like the way they are using the technology, I'm still a programmer at hearth and would love to read about this.

To the point of the conversation, honestly man that was just an example of the many problems I see with this. But you have to understand that people like you keep asking us for proof that LLMs are not smart. But come on man, you are the ones claiming you solved the hard problem of mind, on the first try no less hahaha. You are the ones with the burden of proof here and you have provided nothing of the sort. Do better people or stop trying to confuse us with retoric.

afraid_of_zombies ,

I mean it's just the release notes. Go to their website. I have used the memory feature myself on the app so know it's working and as for the context window it can actually tell you what it is for each session.

But you have to understand that people like you keep asking us for proof that LLMs are not smart.

Where? Where have I asked that? Don't strawman me, I am not your punching bag and won't defend something I didn't say. You can "come on man" all you want but it won't change my answer. I have made zero claims if this thing is smart or asked anyone to weight in on the issue either way.

I pointed out two features it has now, which I don't think anyone can dispute that it does have those features. It has a larger context window and memory that it can update. That is all I said, a very small claim that you can prove for yourself in under five minutes by going to their website.

trollbearpig ,

Oh, you are talking about this https://help.openai.com/en/articles/8590148-memory-faq hahahaha. I'm sorry man, but you are a moron or arguing in bad faith. That's yet another feature where they inject even more shit in the context/input to make it feel like the thing has memory. That's literally yet another example of what I was pointing out, so thanks for confirming my suspicions. Seriously dude, do better if you really want to have a conversation. Your response made me waste my time, and on top of that you insult me hahaha.

dustyData ,

Always remember that having more money doesn't mean someone (or some entity) is more capable or intelligent. It just means they have way more latitude to fuck up, higher potential to hurt more people, and less chance of facing negative consequences when they do.

todd_bonzalez ,

The AI overview has told me so many lies. You thought Facebook made people stupid? Buckle in!

sudo42 ,

"Hey, we just promised you answers. We never promised you correct answers." -- Google Marketing, probably.

Plopp ,

"Besides, the more incorrect answers - the more time users will spend on our site and use our service to get the correct answer = more ads shown = more profit!"

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

Give me your traffic/money! (users/advertisers) 🤑 💰

-Google

img

Nualkris ,

Why does search need to be AI? I've had no problems finding any information I wanted under the former process.

otacon239 ,

Because [buzzword here]!

best_username_ever ,

You obviously haven’t used the web3 nocode blockchain NFT AI enough to have an informed opinion.

kibiz0r ,

Can I super-mega-ultra upvote this?

It's the same playbook as ever. Doubt can only be explained by ignorance, failure can only be explained by under-committing,

The only way to have a "valid" opinion is to have already bought-in and be actively selling other people on it. It's the same mentality as a cult or a pyramid scheme.

leadore ,

I think the idea is that you won't even leave the Google page at all, they want to keep you on their site and serve you their ads instead of sending you to someone else's site and giving someone else that sweet sweet ad revenue.

applepie ,

The logic checks out. Avoid using google where possible.

YouTube is their only must have service imho

Fiivemacs ,

After the UI changes...yeah not even sure about that. Absolutely atrocious

applepie ,

Well they are still fucking us but can't replace the content... Yet

Murdoc ,

But you can access the content without going to their site, with places like Invidious, and apps like NewPipe and Tubular.

applepie ,

I need it on my teevee so I pay.

I still use Foss client o my phone tho

Murdoc ,

Ah yes, tvs. I don't watch enough yt to want to watch it on tv, so I often forget about that. You're right, no easy answers there right now. Certainly there are ways, but all sacrifice some convenience. Hopefully this will change soon.

tabris ,

If you have a way of installing android apps from the web on your TV, Smart Tube Next is very good. Sponsor Block is integrated if you want to use it, but I mostly am just glad it doesn't serve ads.

SuperSpruce ,

Many large creators post on Nebula, and half my YT consumption has been replaced by Nebula

ComplexLotus ,

youtube will also become harvested for AI data. And filled with AI functionality in the future. ergo: Look out for alternatives.

tektite ,

But what about when you start wanting to know about life's mysteries?

Google isn't staffed by geologists; how are they to know what number of rocks you should eat each day?

Google search itself doesn't have a functioning set of human organs; without AI how would they know how much urine to drink for kidney stones?

Without AI it might've taken another century before we got spicy gasoline pasta recipe, and you think that isn't a problem?

gdog05 ,

it might've taken another century before we got spicy gasoline pasta recipe,

The Anarchists Cookbook has had the recipe for napalm for a bit now. But I do get your point.

Agrivar ,

And it works! I followed that recipe in the 80s, to hilariously non-fatal results.

Bogasse ,
@Bogasse@lemmy.ml avatar

I think it's been a long time since digital companies tried to solve actual problems.

gcheliotis ,

It’s become more efficient to get basic info on virtually any topic by just asking an LLM like ChatGPT and that could be a serious threat to Google Search. People might form the habit of asking AIs for everything and then go to Google Search only when they want to dig deeper / find relevant articles etc. So I assume they added their own AI right into Search in an effort to continue being the first (and perhaps only) place one goes to for information.

buddascrayon ,

Like we’ve seen before with AI chatbots, this technology seems to confuse satire with journalism

Unfortunately so does my aunt. And she's allowed to vote.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • technology@lemmy.world
  • random
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines
    •