I agree. But by allowing them to be in public spaces we're giving some squeak to an otherwise unnoticed wheel. Maybe then it actually gets the grease it needs.
Also... would you want to live in a tent in the park? Do you think they want that? Nobody wants to live their life that way. These are people without anywhere to go. Should they sleep in dumpsters just so we don't have to look at them?
Seriously public housing and universal basic income should make sure that I do not have to see some improvised shelters on public squares. This should not happen.
I hope that's just bad phrasing. You are not the victim. The problem is not that you have to see the improvised shelters. The unhoused people in that photo are the victims - of economic injustice, of discrimination, of the myriad social failures of our society and government. Their problem is lack of shelter. They solve it with improvised shelters in public spaces.
I want to emphasize this because it's a way of thinking that's very hard to maintain in a society so prejudiced against homeless people. Tent cities and improvised shelters and unhoused people sleeping on the streets are not problems. They are solutions, used by the unhoused, to the problem of lack of shelter.
Those solutions are suboptimal, obviously, and cause other problems, including your own negative emotional reaction to seeing them.
But if government and society see tent cities and improvised shelters as problems to be eliminated, instead of bad solutions to the deeper problem of housing inequity, government and society will implement "solutions" that merely relocate or eliminate the shelters to remove them from sight, and leave the unhoused even worse off than before.
Why do you think public housing and universal basic income would not solve the actual underlieing problem of forced homlessness. I have no problem with people camping and large tent cities are perfectly fine, but there needs to be facilities around, which provide some basic services like toilets, waste removal and so forth. So I rather have nomads living in places with some infrastructure to help them out, rather then some random street. However I suspect a lot of people would rather live in proper public housing then in a tent like that.
You don't need to be an empathetic holistic person to get behind free housing for the homeIess. If you're a truly selfish and purely economically oriented person, then you have to admit giving the homless free homes is economically the best solution for all involved. Alternatives include the taxpayer eating the cost of all the damage they do seeking shelter and survival, or paying a ton of money to police to violently deal with them.
If you prefer those to giving them housing, you're choosing options that are more cruel and more costly -- I don't understand how that makes sense and yet plenty of people seem to choose that.
Because many people perceive homelessness as a proxy for moral failings (such as drug abuse) worthy of punishment.
Of course this is rarely the full picture or even true at all, but we need to get people to understand that this is not a problem that can be solved by punishing people.
It’s not the sheltering that most people object to, it’s the open drug use, violence, theft, and sanitation issues.
If we as a society would just help these people get some stability, starting with housing, the vast majority of these folks would get their lives back together. We pay more to deal with the other problems homelessness creates, all in the name of not giving someone a “handout”. It’s nonsensical and shameful.
i dont mind letting people use public areas as a place to stay for the night. but its not just a place to stay for them. its a place to do drugs, shit and piss all over the place, steal from and harrass and assault everyone around them, and let their trash pile up and attract pests. its a huge problem where i am and these people are fucking terrifying to be around. like, i dont want to be inhumane to anyone but where do we draw the line?
, i dont want to be inhumane to anyone but where do we draw the line?
Imo we draw the line when someone who wants to be housed is threatened with being houseless and provide them with housing. Providing housing first is also the best way to deal with all the issues connected to being houseless like drug use, trauma from violence, mental health issues, etc
Imo the line has been crossed long ago and gets crossed every day and its important to keep in mind when trying to find solutions that are more like band aids on a broken system.
they are alive, so they need to shit and piss. they consume things, so they will create trash. if they are addicted to drugs, they need a place to do them. if we don't provide for people public restrooms, public trash receptacles, and places to do drugs safely, they will do them in public where you can see them. nothing about any of these behaviors are unique to unhoused people, you just don't see housed folks getting high and shitting in the street because they because have a far more comfortable, safe place to do their private business. you don't see housed people's trash because they have a bin to put it in that takes all the trash to the dump. how are they supposed to do anything different when they have nowhere else to go?
this whole antipathy towards people on the street makes me so fucking angry. they can't go anywhere else. they have to keep all of their belongings out on the sidewalk, they have to shit on the fucking street, they have no other options but to live every moment of their lives in a public place, and we pass judgement on them when it doesn't look pretty. these are human beings you're talking about, not pests, not monsters, they're people that you're watching live in abject poverty, and all you can muster up is fear and disgust. its disgraceful.
"We make the community by defending it: Calling police on people that don’t have a house is a violent act to those seeking shelter in the community they belong to."
Youtuber i seen with a trend of stealth camping in urban locations, had a video of camping overnight in the middle of a roundabout with a lot of shrubbery. And it had kind of a survival horror feel with cops patrolling around, and i remembered...this guy existing in a public space at night shouldnt be this terrifying or feel so taboo.
I disagree... public space is our space. No one's need is greater than anyone else's. The homeless need help, the pubic space that we use to get to the store, play with our children, buff highway noise is not the place to get that. Now, I'm not saying financially penalizing or jailing them are the only alternatives but safe camping/RV spots with access to access social services, Wi-Fi, gather for ac/heater, etc seems like a better approach.
I'd rather we just give them housing and a support network to prevent homelessness in the first place. Until then, homeless people have a right to access third spaces for as long as they don't have a living space.
If someone sets up a spot to sleep and keep their stuff close to your house, try talking to them like a person. I live in the City, so there are plenty of people I see all the time. Sometimes they ask for help, sometimes we just talk. I help when I can, but I also say no when I can’t. I stand outside and talk to some of the struggling people close to me for a while sometimes. They’re just people
See, this is part of the issue. Too many people recognize the problems, but as soon as any solutions to those problems inconvenience them, any empathy for those problems then goes right out the window....
I remember this guy in my city set up fake signs for the opening of a new homeless shelter in one of the wealthier and more liberal neighbourhoods in the city, where the "provide for the homeless!" Crowd tend to live.
The neighborhood was up in arms at the idea of the shelter getting set up in THEIR neighborhood. There's a video about it around somewhere.
I don't mind the homeless through no fault of their own camping on my street. But I've seen plenty of drugged out mofos camping in front of or near my work I wouldn't want anywhere near my house or those of my neighbors who have kids. I'm talking about the mofos who take apart cars and bikes and whatever else and then just leave everything when they move on. The mofos with piles of garbage that attract rats bigger than cats.
i doubt many people want to be addicts but they succumb to it all the same. regardless it doesnt excuse living like described above and i dont blame people for not wanting to be near described above.
or... i dont want someones kid to get a bbp from a dirty needle or whatever because they played in garbage left behind. im describing things ive seen with my own eyes. shelters do have their own problems as well. being homeless isnt easy. there are homeless people who dont leave vehicles stripped, needles everywhere, mounds of garbage, and burnt rvs behind. i dont mind those people being around, and i believe some are.
im empathetic to the plight of the homeless, however that doesnt give them free reign over the rest of society. id love to see the nation, as a whole, because cities like new york san fran la seattle ect cant fix it on their own. id love to see expanded mental health coverage and better treatment for inpatient care. id love to see better access and more rehabilitation facilities. also id love to see the people who desperately need those services to take up the offer when and where its available which largely doesnt happen.
The soil under my house is about two inches nitrogen-free gravel with a solid hunk of clay underneath, so I'm thinking I'll make roof tiles and trade those for food. Especially because I kill every green thing I touch.
Excellent advice. I'd suggest the first year or two sow tillage radishes (daikons) thick. Their giant roots break up the hard clay soil and then you let them rot in place to add organics and nutrients deep in the soil.
But test the soil first. Get an idea of what heavy metals or other contaminants are there. Some soils can be remediated and made safe for crops, some are so polluted they're better used for flowers and trees and native plants and wildlife.
Same with the whole "social experiment" thing they accuse everyone of.
In fact, their childhoods were the biggest social experiment ever. Suburbs, nuclear families with mothers who needed uppers to do everything expected of them, easy access to free and cheap education and loans, etc. They act like it's the way things always were, and that it's the only way things should ever be.
It was all a fluke of the post war economy. Not normal, not sustainable, and trying to appease their fantasy is killing the world.
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