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account_93 ,

The fuck is wrong with The Verges logo

Socsa ,

Nah, fuck spez. Patent trolls suck, but I hope they all go down together.

jonne ,

Thing is, if a patent applies to Reddit, there's a chance it applies to Lemmy or other boards as well. Unless it's very specific to Reddit alone, this is probably not a good thing.

bitwolf ,

How can they flex a networking parent on a SaaS? Doesn't that fall under some clause that's standard for doing business?

flumph ,
@flumph@programming.dev avatar

I hate patent trolls, but I will say "it couldn't have happened to a nicer company". I hope they both go broke on legal fees.

foggy ,

Genuine question: does Nokia have a bad history with patent trolling?

To me Nokia is just that old cell phone company that never quite made it even though they were iconic.

reddig33 ,

They’ve been bought and sold to the point that all that’s left is their patent portfolio. Their current business strategy appears to be “patent troll”. They’ve been holding industry telecommunications methods hostage instead of negotiating fair use fees.

Google “nokia lawsuit fair use”.

rottingleaf ,

Fuck Stephen Elop. Nokia was amazing.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

How does their current logo "remind" is about their focus on patent licensing and telecom...?

Ephera ,

Seems like they switched to this logo:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Nokia_2023.svg

It does kind of feel like the logo of a consultancy/legal/finance group to me. But I could also imagine this looking decent when embossed onto a phone...

MonkderZweite ,

Some lines were taken already?

Etienne_Dahu ,

They wanted to write Aocia in fake Greek font.

Passerby6497 ,

Their logo is trash, but it's still so much better than the damned "KNI" (KIA) logo I see all around town.

Ephera ,

Wow, I did not know, they changed their logo. Yeah, not a fan...

simplejack ,
@simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

These comments are kind of silly. There are 0 details about the patient claim, but a bunch of people are picking sides based on how they feel about a brand name. Classic Lemmy.

BilboBargains ,

Classic?

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Classic.

pastermil ,

patient claim

So we're talking healthcare business now?

helpImTrappedOnline ,

That 'article' is garbage. The headline is more imformative than the actual article.

Nokia, of course, leaned into, ahem, patent licensing and networking equipment as its business.....

Who puts "ahem, in an informational article?

Also how is "patent licensing" a part their new buisness. They submit patents for whatever they're doing just like everyone else.

piecat ,

Difference is most companies just want to hold onto the patent to prevent competition

sepi ,

LET THEM FIGHT!

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

I can't believe I have to defend reddit for once.

I’m not rushing to pick a side until someone posts the actual patient claim. Both of these parties suck, and I’m not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt.

RobotToaster ,
@RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar

Sad to see Nokia reduced to a patent troll.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

No one posted what the suit is about. I don’t know how we can make that claim right now.

RobotToaster , (edited )
@RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar

Given it's reddit I can't see how it could be about anything other than software patents.

bobslaede ,

Patent trolls are not limited to software.

There is no information available to say who is good or evil here.

RobotToaster ,
@RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar

Software patents are almost exclusively used by trolls, however.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

We absolutely know it’s about patents. That’s the only thing we know.

But we don’t know what the patents are, and what the infringement allegations are. Knowing that will help us determine who is in the right.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

I'm always glad when I see your comments, and that's definitely true for this post.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks. Yours aren’t too shabby either!

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

No false praise, please.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Ok. You’re a fart face.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

That's better.

RampageDon ,

This "article," if you can call it that, might as well have just been a tweet. There is 0 other relevant information like what the patents actually are.

stankmut ,

It basically is a tweet. It's a quick post, which is designed for The Verge writers to write a quick thought or link to a story using a website they control instead of posting it on Elon's website.

RampageDon ,

Right but then why would I bother going to the verge anymore, when they link to a pay walled website? Why not go directly to that website? I am by no means advocating Twitter, but a tweet makes sense because it might reach an audience it normally wouldn't.

MentalEdge , (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Why are we mad about an active tech company protecting their IP?

Patent trolls buy up more patents than any company could ever be able to use in actual products in order to make money sueing everyone under the sun or striking extortionate licensing deals.

Nokia Oyj is the part of Nokia that Microsoft didn't buy, and it is a telecom company that does its own RnD to this day, and is perfectly open to doing reasonable licensing deals. How tf does this make them a patent troll, unless this is over something dumb and frivolous, which we don't know yet?

thantik ,

Nokia is a husk of a former tech company that was gutted by Microsoft for anti competitive reasons and now used as a patent troll arm of Microsoft.

https://slidebean.com/story/microsoft-nokia-acquisition

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

That’s sad.

MentalEdge ,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

And inaccurate. MS never bought Nokia in its entirety, the parts it did acquire languished for a while, with the brand eventually ending up with HMD Global. That is the company that makes Nokia phones today, and they're doing ok.

The company that's relevant in this patent dispute is Nokia Oyj, the main operations of which is telecom RnD and infrastructure, and it has nothing to do with MS aside from being the company that they bought a mobile phone division from.

MentalEdge , (edited )
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

That's not even close to the full story, and partly straight up incorrect.

They sold their mobile branch. The brand of which eventually ended up with HMD global, which now makes Nokia branded phones.

Nokia Oyj is a telecom RnD and infrastructure company, as in the hardware and standards behind wireless communication tech. They never stopped.

They essentially pulled an IBM and exited the consumer market, but they never ceased operation, or sold off their main business.

Microsoft has had absolutely nothing to do with Nokia Oyj since buying their consumer handset branch off them.

JohnEdwa ,
@JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz avatar

And even back when Microsoft bought the mobile phone operations the company making the phones was Microsoft Mobile and Microsoft only leased the brand name from Nokia to use on their mobile phones for 10 years - same as with HMD Global today.

Bezier ,
@Bezier@suppo.fi avatar

That is entirely incorrect. Microsoft doesn't own the company and never did. MS bought the phone division and a license for the name to go with it.

I tried to look up what this notice is actually about, but there's nothing out there yet. So can't say much being a patent troll "arm" either.

Socsa , (edited )

And reddit is a husk of a former tech company who doesn't even have a good excuse for why they've gotten consistently worse over the last decade.

theneverfox ,

They're not really a husk, they're doing all the things they ever did. And a lot more... Which we really wish they hadn't

Reddit is more like a twisted/undead version of a tech company... It's still moving and growing, it just has been taken over by the lust to corrupt the living and drain their sanity

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

We don’t even know what the suit is about, so I don’t know how anyone can pick a side about anything.

MentalEdge ,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

I'll be ready to flip the second it comes out if this suit is BS.

But I'm initially siding with Nokia Oyj here because they have a decent track record of actually doing the legwork on their tech, advancing the science, and sharing that with the industry through sane licensing.

Also the company is one of the success stories of my country, so maybe I'm biased, but then that hasn't stopped me from hating exploitative pieces of shit like Rovio and Supercell.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

I’m just going to wait until I hear the details of the suit. At this point I don’t really understand the point of picking a side when we have almost no information.

MentalEdge ,
@MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz avatar

Fair enough. And I'm absolutely far more interested in convincing people to just not jump to "patent troll" with this little to go on.

And preferably not spreading misinfo like "nokia is just a microsoft puppet" when this is about the part of the company that MS never even acquired.

Socsa ,

The point is that spez is a colossal fucking asshole and Nokia has never wronged me.

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

Both sides suck here but I have to side with Reddit over patent trolls. Nokia, what a disgrace you are these days if you have to resort to patent trolling. You used to be cool. That said, if this hurts Reddit's IPO then I'll be happy anyways.

SchmidtGenetics ,

There’s a difference between patent trolling and protecting their patents.

Provided Nokia just won a case, it’s extremely doubtful they would fall into the “troll” catagory.

Why do you think they’ve become a disgrace?

4am ,

Enforcing a patent is not necessarily patent trolling. Is Nokia’s sole purpose to collect patent for things they have no intention or capability to create and sell? That’s the definition of a patent troll. Nokia doesn’t exist solely to collect patents and make their revenue by suing actual business.

We got people out here mad at shit they don’t even understand…

thantik ,

If you're enforcing a patent that would have been come up with other people in the same field, then the patent is invalid, many of us would consider going after people with an invalid patent -- patent trolling.

Patents are meant for UNIQUE ideas and things that nobody else would have come up with on their own. But increasingly they're being used for obvious ideas that thousands of other people also have around the same time, to lock out competition.

JohnEdwa ,
@JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz avatar

Patents last for 20 years, that's a long time for something unique and groundbreaking to become mundane and seemingly obvious in hindsight, especially when almost everything these days builds on top of something already existing at a break neck pace.

But the problem with the current system is that everybody has to try to patent absolutely everything they come up with because if they don't somebody else might and then sue you for it, and instead of the patent offices actually doing their jobs and dismissing them outright so they would be free to use for everyone, they grant patents on the most simplest or broadest of things.

The silver lining is that plenty of great new things have been made specifically because people have been trying to avoid someone else's patents - "necessity is the mother of all inventions", literally.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Side with Reddit about what? We don’t even know what the lawsuit is about.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

What are the patents?

KingThrillgore OP ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

Good question.

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

Thank you for asking that question. That was the primary reason I was going to read the article. Since it doesn’t explain that, I won’t bother.

casmael ,

Presumably patents relating to the implementation of bad management strategies

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe it’s a patent about painfully slow product development. They’re both pretty great at that.

Artyom ,

Maybe the real patents are the friends we made along the way?

jonne ,

Huge innovation by Stephen Elop.

stankmut ,

It's not mentioned in the filing, so we can only speculate.

...on March 18, 2024, Nokia Technologies sent us a letter indicating they believed that Reddit infringes certain of their patents. We will evaluate their claims.

That's all we've got to go on.

db2 ,

Can't seem to find that anywhere, but there's a totally organic and not at all sus post on Reddit calling Nokia patent trolls.

homesnatch ,

Nokia has a patent on making things out of bricks, and the CEO of Reddit has a brick for a head. Case closed if you ask me.

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