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schwim ,
@schwim@lemm.ee avatar

Windows for gaming, Linux for everything else. With the way I use it, I don't see the desktop, much less notice any changes between updates.

calvinklein97 ,

By now you can use Linux for gaming too. Compatibility layers like Wine or Proton came a long way thanks to the steam deck.

schwim ,
@schwim@lemm.ee avatar

I have tried. For the games I like to play, this is not the case, sadly. Windows provides a vastly superior gaming experience in my case.

calvinklein97 ,

No doubt windows is still better (or more seemless) overall in regards of gaming especially since Linux kinda emulates (but not really) a windows environment which requires some fiddling here and there and there are still some issues with some Anti Cheat powered games. But still you technically can game on Linux 😄

schwim ,
@schwim@lemm.ee avatar

Unfortunately, our lives don't perform at the technical level but the practical. Gaming performance for the games I like are abysmal on linux. I appreciate linux for what it excels at but I would never suggest it to someone that wanted to game.

AliasAKA ,

What games do you play in particular that is abysmal on Linux?

michel ,
@michel@friend.ketterle.ch avatar

@schwim
As far I read on internet and benchnatks, If you have a working , the average performance between Windows and (proton) is equal. That means also, there cases where a Windows Games performs beter on a Linux with proton.
I assume the cause is also that some gamedeveloper enhance a game for steam deck also.
I propose to retest your case again.

@calvinklein97

DdCno1 ,

Good news hidden in the article:

Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.

@OP: People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux. If you're going through this much trouble, you've already tried Linux several times and left disillusioned every time. Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.

arf ,

Anyone could just as easily say:

Windows does not compete with macOS as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that macOS - for all its faults - has.

Windows isn't compatible with Final Cut Pro, has a lackluster implementation of Adobe Photoshop comparatively, and has no support for common cli shells such as bash or zsh (without creating an emulated subsystem ala Cygwin or WSL). Setting up a Windows desktop for my day-to-day tasks is a huge pain as opposed to macOS or a Linux-based desktop OS.

HerzogVonWiesel ,

You are right about some points, though what the original comment meant by compatibility is probably industry software.

MajorHavoc ,

People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux

Yeah. Not just to avoid a quick file rename.

Although, I started out as someone who modified Windows that deeply, and I ended up on Linux.

One of my reasons for switching was when my favorite Windows mod stopped working, and there was no recourse.

This sounds like it goes beyond that and the Windows team is actively pushing modders out?

I think this will have an effect, and we will get more migrations.

quantumcog OP ,

Yep, Microsoft is also blocking some github scripts for disabling telemetry,etc. They are just making it worse for themselves

Kelly ,

What do you mean?

Are these scripts being distributed via github or disabling telemetry on github?

quantumcog OP ,

I mean PowerShell scripts used to disable telemetry services on Windows.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

That's why you block the telemetry at the router level as a big fat fuck you.

vodka ,

I switched when a Windows update for the third time in a month forcibly changed the default pdf and html file association to edge.

That was like 5 years ago, and I've never looked back.

rottingleaf ,

Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will.

Surely it doesn't, the former is a good system, the latter is monopolistic shit supported by people with duckling syndrome and those who know no better.

EDIT:

does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.

I hope you don't mean those google-fu masters by "power users", but otherwise this wouldn't make any sense.

wizardbeard ,
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

There's a wide gulf between googlers and power users, and between power users and the "truly skilled". I'm a Systems "Engineer" with nearly a decade experience in Tech Support, SysAdmin work, building custom system integrations/interop layers, and building custom automations.

Got no problem doing deep troubleshooting, compiling from source, finding issues in open source code bases, fixing them, submitting pull requests, etc.

Doesn't mean I want to have to do all that regularly when I have other shit to get done.

scaramobo ,

Absolutely my experience too. Every once in a while I give Linux a chance on my personal desktop, only to find it working great.. until it doesn't for whatever reason and I'm left losing minutes to hours figuring out what and how it broke, browsing forums etc etc; usually to great frustration.

I simply cannot afford that kind of nonsense for my work devices. I regularly do and have used macOS for work for the best part of the last two decades and have never, not once, found the system broken or in a state that I needed to fix things after updates. That OS just works. Always.
Of course you'll find weird stuff happening in the Apple user forums as well, but in my personal experience Mac OS is rock solid out of the box whereas Linux can be rock solid if you want to invest a lot of time in it. And for work, I cannot.

rottingleaf ,

I don't invest a lot of time into Linux. At home or at work.

Windows at work is such PITA that even colleagues who are not very well with Linux prefer it for anything new.

Kusimulkku ,

People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux. If you’re going through this much trouble, you’ve already tried Linux several times and left disillusioned every time. Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.

Well that's a take

wizardbeard ,
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I mean, go off about it not competing, that's some BS. But Linux doesn't offer the compatibility and ease of use that Windows has on a day to day basis. There's not really any argument to be made there.

Frustrating antipatterns, poor design decisions, poorly communicated reasons for functionality loss with updates (what this article is about), and settings requiring hoop jumping to touch aren't unique to Windows and magically never present with Linux.

Linux is amazing, neccessary, and I sincerely hope it continues to grow as a valid competitor eventually taking over, but it's still really rough in a lot of areas as a power user.

There are a handful of very user friendly distros for people who just need to do basic stuff on their computer and have it just work. Web browsing, document editing, even playing games that are just semi-popular (instead of only the most popular) all tend to work to a reasonable degree of "it just works" now.

There's also an amazing amount of customizability and power placed in the hands of the user if they're willing to dig into the guts of it. Run your own customized kernel with the specific patches you want, re-code part of a driver to meet your needs. Build an entire distro from source code up, piece by piece, exactly to your wishes. Compatability layers between different desktop environments. Mess with your drivers. It's all open to mess with.

But what often gets left behind are people in the middle. I need a lot more than just basic functionality, and I have no fear about compiling stuff from code or making pull requests. I have the skills to make Linux work. What I don't have is the time in my life to be digging in the guts regularly to get shit working on my computer, which is still far too often a requirement with Linux. Just look at discussions in the Linux communities here to see how absurd it can be to get a RDP or VNC client working, depending on your particular setup and graphics card.

It's like the difference between getting a Honda Civic and working on a project car. You might need to change a tire, brake pads, change the oil on the Civic. You don't need to mess with engine valve timings.

I really enjoy tinkering with Linux when I have the time, but most of my life I need my shit to just reliably work so I can get my shit done. I prefer my computer to be a tool far more than a project, and Linux is still too much of a project for a lot of people.

Evkob ,
@Evkob@lemmy.ca avatar

I would describe myself as firmly "in the middle", and I honestly don't disagree with your points overall. However, I think Windows isn't really "easier to use" than most Linux distros, it's just what most people are used to.

That doesn't take away from your argument, as being familiar with an OS will make it easier to use and that's completely valid, but someone who's used Linux all their life would similarly face struggles using Windows. User inertia is a huge factor contributing to Windows' marketshare.

hornedfiend ,

This comment is simply wrong. Linux doesn't compete with Windows desktop because it's already ahead of it.

Flaky ,
@Flaky@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

I think a lot of people have a few killer apps that just don't work on Linux even with WINE. Hell, I've heard that VR is not worth it on Linux. There are edge cases like that, that need to be sorted some way. Hopefully whatever Valve is doing wrt their supposed standalone VR headset helps there.

Kedly ,

I think this is the real answer for those that have the knowledge on how to switch but dont. Windows steadily eroding the ability to customize its user experience is actually a driving factor in why a lot of us are getting over our familiarity bias and laziness to switch to Linux

Kedly ,

Dude, the fact I like I can customize windows is EXACTLY why I'm switching to linux now that Microsoft wants a piece of that apple pie

jenny_ball ,
@jenny_ball@lemmy.world avatar

yup

SkyeStarfall ,

Power users are the exact people who would get the most benefit out of Linux, though. Speaking as one of them who got sick and tired of Windows' bullshit. I'd argue Linux already very much competes with Windows, and has many advantages sourced from it being an open and not profit driven operating system.

Finally do I have an operating system that actually tries to work with me to get what I want, rather than tries to obstruct me every part of the way because "it knows best" or whatever windows tries to do.

experbia ,
@experbia@lemmy.world avatar

People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux

I did. I was a heavy Windows customizer and deeply understand it as an operating system and target for application development. I left because, at some point, I realized the OS I (one way or another) paid for was treating me like a product instead of a user, and I resent that. I don't like the feeling of slowly losing grip on the OS as it slides into becoming adtech tooling for marketing interests instead of the thing that runs programs for me. Despite my entrenched Windows knowledge, none of my primary personal computers run it anymore, including my gaming PC. Adaptation is a lot easier than most people expect, in my opinion.

ronflex ,

I can see why they'd do it. Windows is a corporate product and MSFT wants everyone's experience to be tailored to exactly how they think is best. Gives some Apple vibes.

I think at this point MSFT knows the average user is just gonna keep using Windows so they don't really care about tailoring to individuals. I expect to see a lot more of this.

taanegl ,

The thing about Windows, or the thing that is going away, was that it has the possibility of being modified and customised, which made it more freedom respecting than macOS.

From the windows registry, group policies, PE functionality, Windows was the commercial platform for tinkerers, businesses and professionals. It's basically what made Windows awesome.

Now, with ads in the menu, Microsoft being horny for apple's app store vendor lock-in since Windows 8 and depriving the user of any kind of control, we finally see Microsoft emerge as one of the most evil companies to ever exist.

Why? Read their history, because even with the good things they did with Windows, there's a thousand bad, and you should never play devil's advocate for them. They, nor Apple, deserves it.

Also: use Linux or BSD, pls.

rodneylives ,

Why is Microsoft even deciding what programs I can run on my computer in the first place? They're not malware, they shouldn't be doing this at all.

BradleyUffner ,

It's the Windows Defender component. Blocking things that interfere with your computer is literally what it was designed and intended to do.

MonkderDritte ,

So thee tools need to patch MS Defender now?

original_reader ,

Aaand another reason to stay with 10.

lnxtx ,
@lnxtx@feddit.nl avatar

Only 1 year and 6 months
left (14 Oct 2025).

far_university1990 ,

I give until 2027 for win 10 pc that cannot upgrade to become large botnet

TheGrandNagus ,

Windows 10 is filled with shit decisions too. And it won't be supported much longer anyway. If you want to keep using Windows, but not 11, it's going to be advisable that you use it offline only.

original_reader , (edited )

You're right on all counts.

And I am not happy about about any of this.

Of yeah, and then there is this: Microsoft's draconian Windows 11 restrictions will send an estimated 240 million PCs to the landfill when Windows 10 hits end of life in 2025

northendtrooper ,

Hope FTC does something before this deadline hits.

cooopsspace ,

Amazing how Windows die-hards will go to literally any lengths not to switch to Linux.

amelia ,

The moment Adobe Creative Cloud works on Linux, I'll switch. Until then I'll have to stick with Windows.

kadu ,
@kadu@lemmy.world avatar

They're not exactly "being blocked" but rather the legacy ability to tell explorer.exe to load the older style Taskbar, which those apps load then modify, is going away. I'm not defending this nor do I like it, but it would be like saying some Linux distro is BLOCKING customization because some legacy app dependent on Xorg will not work after they switch to Wayland.

BombOmOm ,
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

They’re not exactly “being blocked”

Simply renaming the executable works to re-enable Start All Back. They are being intentionally blocked by Microsoft.

Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.

kadu , (edited )
@kadu@lemmy.world avatar

Not if you're using the preview build, where the entire functionality is removed. The warning is just a preemptive preparation for beta users. The bottom of the article indirectly mentions this.

But sure, downvote me.

ChunkMcHorkle , (edited )
@ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    kadu ,
    @kadu@lemmy.world avatar

    The article is actually incomplete. Some insider builds already lack the old taskbar, it can't be invoked and if an application relies on it you simply get a crash.

    This is not new behavior from Windows. When legacy features are going to be removed, they do stagger updates when users have known software conflicts installed, they also might throw warnings. This is exactly what we are seeing now.

    Though the fact this small article is just reporting on Reddit information rather than testing insider builds is not my fault nor my concern.

    ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

    They are, to the best of Microsoft security professionals' abilities

    Just kidding, the devs are probably using ExplorerPatcher themselves and are sabotaging this asshole move

    A_Random_Idiot ,
    @A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world avatar

    sounds like a 21st century version of quack3.exe.

    Scrollone ,

    Reference: https://techreport.com/review/how-atis-drivers-optimize-quake-iii/

    kirbowo808 ,
    @kirbowo808@kbin.social avatar

    The fact that windows is now becoming Apple 2.0 is kinda crazy ngl lol, thought shouldn’t be surprising cuz every tech company is now doing enshittification at this point.

    ptz ,
    @ptz@dubvee.org avatar

    One tech company said "Hey, I can see the bottom!" and every other tech company replied "Race you there!"

    TheGrandNagus ,

    And yet they're not even becoming apple in the areas where apple does well - UX consistency, battery optimisations, a reasonably well-curated app store, etc

    strawberry ,
    @strawberry@kbin.run avatar

    who the hell needs an app store on PC?

    joyjoy ,

    Linux does a centralized, curated software repository with support for updates and it's loved.

    Windows does a centralized, curated software repository with support for updates and people question why it's needed.

    BombOmOm ,
    @BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

    That's because the windows one came a decade+ too late, has a bunch of restrictions (particularly at launch when you couldn't even put desktop apps in it), and generally doesn't fit with the ecosystem. One of the reason Linux package managers are loved is it is a one-stop-shop for all app and OS updates. The Microsoft Store doesn't do that, nor can you add third party repositories to it (like you can in Linux) in order to attempt to make it a one-stop-shop.

    A big hint here is it's called the Microsoft Store. It doesn't perform the same function or achieve the same goals as a Linux package manager. And that is on purpose.

    joyjoy ,

    At least they made a good choice with winget.

    liquidparasyte ,

    ♥️ winget my beloved ♥️

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    I mean, there's lots of things in OSes that you don't need but are very useful to have. I love having access to Paint when I use Windows, but it's certainly not a hard OS requirement.

    I imagine you're reeling at the idea of an app store on PC primarily because you know the Microsoft store to be absolute dog shit, and you'd be right, because it's a steaming turd. It's full of crap, fraudulent paid copies of open source software, outdated software because the dev hasn't bothered to update the WinStore listing, etc.

    If you look over at the Linux world and installing apps is generally as simple as: open the software centre, search for software, press the install button, you're done. Updates will be done either manually or automatically through the software centre, for all of your apps.

    Now, contrast that with what people actually do on Windows (because they sure as fuck aren't using the MS store): open your web browser (hey btw we noticed you're not using Edge, do you want to switch???), search for the software, make sure to click the link to the correct website (which isn't always obvious if you don't know the developer name), navigate to the download page, select Windows [version] x86_64, open your downloads folder, run the installer with admin permissions, go through an installer, delete the installer file, delete the shortcut it added to your desktop. Updates will be handled by an updater service for each individual app and most love to start running immediately after booting your machine.

    A better app store is absolutely something Microsoft should be looking into

    strawberry ,
    @strawberry@kbin.run avatar

    that's true. on Linux, I used the software center or whatever. Microsoft store tho? never

    captain_aggravated ,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Thing is, I think Microsoft has a vested interest/legal responsibility to their shareholders to make sure the Windows Store is as constipated as possible.

    They can't have Firefox or Chrome in there, they have to push their browser, Edge, because their shareholders will sue them if they facilitate installing someone else's spyware instead of their own. They don't put old versions of Solitaire or FreeCell in there, because the new ones run ads. Third parties are either as evil as Microsoft, or they won't touch their store with a barge pole.

    So what's in the Microsoft store? Office, Minecraft Bedrock Edition, and a bunch of worthless crap you've never heard of.

    Lantern ,

    They’re not becoming Apple 2.0, Apple is becoming Microsoft 2.0. If you look into the history of Microsoft and Windows, you’ll see that they’ve always been this way, but have received more pushback in the past. Microsoft is the OG tech giant empire.

    Dagnet ,

    I can't use win11 without explorerpatcher, if it stops working I won't know what to do

    ChaoticNeutralCzech , 
     ---------------------------------
/ Got a problem with your PC?     \
\ Want to make that NaN problems? /
 ---------------------------------
   \
    \
        .--.
       |o_o |
       |:_/ |
      //   \ \
     (|     | )
    /'\_   _/`\
    \___)=(___/
    Hiro8811 ,
    @Hiro8811@lemmy.world avatar

    What? You tell me that Windows won't be customisable any.... Sorry can't do it with a straight face. Fuck you Microsoft! Linux ftw

    red_pigeon ,

    A wasted opportunity to natively support these features and make the user base happy.

    TurboHarbinger ,

    Hey OP, may I ask if this is actually news and not an sensanionalized post with an opinion in it.

    One more reason to switch to Linux

    Isn't this fucking propaganda?

    FunkPhenomenon ,

    or just rollback to win10. it's still got a few more years - then transition to linux which will be even more stable by then (hopefully)

    StaticFalconar ,

    I've been hearing that since windows 7

    BombOmOm ,
    @BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

    And it continues to be true. Linux continues to get easier and easier to switch to. For gamers as an example, just look at how much focus Valve and engine creators have put into native Linux support.

    henfredemars ,

    I shyly installed Linux in dual boot months ago because I want a boring PC just does what I tell it to do. With Proton I was pleased to find that gaming is pretty easy. I actually haven’t had a reason to boot into Windows since.

    ILikeBoobies ,

    Better to get that year of Linux under your belt where you have the dual boot fallback

    Gormadt ,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Currently my plan is having a Windows VM on my NAS that I can just dial into on my network for the stuff I still need Windows for.

    Though I haven't done it yet, it's the goal.

    southsamurai ,
    @southsamurai@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Shit, if you go with one of the more popular distros, stability is just fine. My mint install on my laptop has never needed any attention or time since install. Same on my main desktop pc, the little box hooked up to the TV, my dad's ancient desktop, and my "junk" box that's just there for general use by the household, and gets whatever parts come off of the others after an upgrade.

    I still run Windows 7 on my media pc, because musicbee, but it dual boots and I've had more hassle out of windows than mint on it. And yes, since it always gets asked, the win7 box is air gapped.

    Seriously, stability is a non issue now. It wasn't a real issue back when I first said "fuck Microsoft" and set up that dual boot on my media box that used to be a gaming box. The only stability issue I ran into there was after an upgrade, and I'm fairly certain I screwed that up because it's never happened again.

    All of that is on mint. Yeah, basic as hell, but that's the point.

    Gormadt ,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Mint is fuckin awesome

    It's the distro I primarily use for my Linux systems

    I've only had it crash once and that was on a system that was on and logged in for 2 months straight running a 2 video feeds (1 camera for each of my filament 3D printers) via OBS.

    10/10 Would recommend

    QuandaleDingle ,

    Wow, now I'm really glad I switched to Linux. Windows? Never again.

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