Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

hperrin ,

Please let this come to the US. Safari (WebKit) is so far behind.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

In what ways?

hperrin ,

Mostly in everything that has to do with PWAs. It’s gotten better since they introduced Web Push last year, but there’s still a lot of things it doesn’t support, like Web Bluetooth, AV1 (except for devices with hardware decoders like the 15th gen Pro iPhones), and things like mobile sensor inputs.

But also in how bad its rendering engine is. Things that work on every other platform render super weird in WebKit.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

Thanks. Do you have an example of the super weird rendering? Also are none of what you’re saying here togglable in the WebKit Feature Flags to mess around with bleeding edge features?

TrickDacy ,

Every time I want to use a new feature of web browsers, if support stops me from doing so, it's always safari to blame.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

What was that last or current feature you’re missing out on and what’s the use case?

TrickDacy ,

I really can't remember an example off the top of my head. Over the last 5 years it's probably been an issue more than 20 times.

sleep_deprived ,

Besides rendering bugs that may or may not be Safari's fault, I wanted to get uBlock Origin on an iPhone but it's not available, IIRC because the content blocking API is more restrictive than what uBlock is designed for.

hperrin ,

I’m telling you my experience as a web developer for the last 20+ years. If you want specific examples, you could look online. I’ll tell you my SVG icons sometimes don’t work in mobile Safari and I have no idea why. They work 100% of the time in every other platform. I also have to do weird things to get the safe viewport measurements to work in my PWA, again, only in mobile Safari.

I’ll tell you what, you try asking customers to go toggle a feature flag and tell me how that works out.

Safari is almost always the last browser to adopt a standard, often times years after it’s been standardized. And don’t tell me it’s because they take their time to get it right, because their rollout of Web Push was atrocious.

the_nightman ,

Sounds like a skill issue xD

hperrin ,

Skill doesn’t matter at all if Safari doesn’t support the API.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

OK you’re speaking from a completely different point of view then. I was more curious about what I would be missing out on using Safari right now. Definitely not thinking about how a project I paid somebody to create is going to render.

hperrin ,

You’re missing out on the things people can’t create because Safari is holding the industry back. Just because it’s not a user facing problem doesn’t mean you’re not affected as a user.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

I hear you and understand where you’re coming from now. It just doesn’t help me visualize anything.

wahming ,

For example, my D&D group uses Virtual Table Top software to play. The software can't run on Safari. (don't ask me why, I'm just a user)

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

Interesting. What’s the software?

wahming ,

Foundry vtt

TrickDacy ,

If safari was a great browser, I don't think apple would fear competition to the point of fully banning it wherever possible

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

I haven’t had problems. I would just like to be educated on what I’m missing out on.

TrickDacy ,

Well web developers are the ones typically suffering since are the ones papering over the mess that is safari

ramjambamalam ,

Functioning ad block, background video playback, to name two extensions that are very useful on mobile.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

I have both of those capabilities right now and I have for a very, very long time.

ramjambamalam ,

Ah, I didn't know that was possible. I don't think it was last time I used iPhone circa 2019 or so.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

When I left android, I was jailbreaking on iOS, so generally had all of those features, but funny enough probably about right when you left extensions, VPN ad blockers, etc. came out. Officially and polished.

the_nightman ,

Safari is a great browser, especially in terms of performance and energy efficiency. Aside from adblockers what exactly does chrome/ff do better?

jukibom ,

Debugging (without a MacBook). Webgl 2. WebXR. Local storage not being completely gimped. I'm glad I don't work in that industry anymore, Safari was the bane of my existence...

Good web standards are a threat to the app store (particularly anything to do with ARKit) - not like 3rd party browsers are likely to change that much with the majority of users sticking to defaults, but it might apply some pressure

TrickDacy ,

Every other browser except IE has supported web standards more quickly and more fully. Safari is trash.

assembly ,

If I could just use my desktop Firefox Plugins I would be happy.

GombeenSysadmin ,

Ublock Origin, I Still Don’t Care About Cookies, and SponsorBlock make the web far more pleasant on my desktop than on my phone.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

Which ones are you needing? For Adblock I block using VPN, similar to setting up a pihole. I’ve found replacements for most of what I do use elsewhere. Some working even better then the desktop counterparts.

assembly ,

I have a pihole at home so it’s really when I am out and about but I’ll check out VPN offerings. The last time I used a vpn it really hit my battery hard but maybe it’s better now. Other than that it’s just the plugins to get rid of the cookie screens and additional YouTube ads.

Fades ,

Same that’s what I want out of this as well

gravitas_deficiency ,

Oh my god just let me use my fucking Firefox plugins, Apple. 😑

realitista ,
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

I wonder if this move will change that, at least in the EU?

robber ,

The fact chromium based browser are going to be allowed as well makes me nervous.

echodot ,

True, but if we're have to have a monopoly of browsers, I'd prefer that the monopoly browsers were actually based on a good engine, rather than one based on an engine that falls over if you look at it.

That is a reason that no one on Mac uses Safari

Petter1 ,

Lol, WTF!

soulfirethewolf ,

Isn't this what everyone wanted though? The freedom to choose browsers? Or are we going to start mandating Gecko because that's what everyone here believes to be the most ethical?

robber ,

From an idealistical point of view, sure freedom of choice is the way to go.

What makes me nervous is that Safari has been the only big player left besides chrome in regard to usage share on mobile. So while from an idealistical point of view the ban of other engines was certainly a bad thing, it still helped to prevent google from extending its monopoly.

herrwoland ,
@herrwoland@lemmy.world avatar

Apple is kicked and shoved into doing something slightly less restrictive (in EU) (because only EU has common sense and is not corrupt, apparently)

sir_reginald ,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

nah, they are just slightly less corrupt. And they like to mess with American megacorps too.

barsoap ,

The antitrust office is actually about the oldest part of the EU, with roots back in the ECSC: They saw the need to get rid of internal collusion to actually entwine the national coal and steel industries. Think of it as a bigger bully saying "We're the cartel bosses around here".

freeman ,

And they like to mess with American megacorps too.

Messing with megacrops is a feature, especially foreign ones.

sir_reginald ,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

Messing with megacrops is a feature

I completely agree. I do not care if they are foreign or not, tho

gianni ,

I'm all for this change, but hopefully it means Mozilla will put some more energy into Gecko to make it competitive with WebKit in speed and multimedia capability (P3 colors, HDR images, JPEG-XL, etc)

steal_your_face ,
@steal_your_face@lemmy.ml avatar

I got so excited for the headline until I saw the parentheses 😭

micka190 ,

Same. Overall, I'm happy with my iPhone, but not having an actual browser with an actual ad blocker (uBlock Origins) is really painful. I've had to live with ProtonVPN's ad blocking, but that only prevents sites from loading, it doesn't hide the actual ad links...

narc0tic_bird ,
@narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

AdGuard is a solid ad blocker for Safari. Not quite uBlock Origin level, but close.

micka190 ,

Maybe, but Safari has a dogshit UI and I much prefer Firefox over it. I despise the fact that they don't let other browsers use their extensions, though (even though they're forced to reskin Safari). I'd install AdGuard on Firefox if I could.

narc0tic_bird ,
@narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

I actually find the bottom bar pretty great.

But you can actually switch between two layouts in the Settings app. Maybe you like the other option better?

echodot ,

Firefox has a bottom bar as well

narc0tic_bird ,
@narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

Yeah, was just asking whether the commenter was aware there was a setting for this as it's in the Settings app, not in Safari itself.

I still prefer Safari's version though, swiping between tabs is pretty great.

Petter1 ,

I use 1Blocker for which I bought the lifetime license on my iOS Safari, as well as adGuard DNS blocking running on my OpnSense at home (WireGuard automatically connects my phone to my home network via VPN as soon as I leave my WiFi)

jvrava9 ,
@jvrava9@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Orion browser

rottingleaf ,

Well, there are separate cooler Japanese versions of some things. Why not this? Only then why Apple at all.

ladicius , (edited )

What has the EU ever done for us?

Aatube ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Is this supposed to be sarcastic or something?

Balinares ,

Considering it's a reference to Monty Python's Life of Brian, I'm gonna go with yes.

SMillerNL ,

Probably more directly referencing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA

scratchee ,

Ok, apart from human rights, workers rights, rebalancing funds to poorer regions, free trade, free movement, a voice at the table, straight bananas, peace in Europe, and endless examples of consumer rights, what has the EU done for us?!

MaggiWuerze ,

The Aqueduct?

BigDanishGuy ,

What about the straightening of cucumbers? And regulating the amount of cinnamon in baked goods? And the GDPR? And trying to take away the red sprinkles on my liquorice pipes?

artic ,

What the reasons behind the amount of cinnamonin baked stuff?

barsoap ,

The limit is not on cinnamon but coumarin. Which means that if you want to put a lot of cinnamon in stuff you have to use the good stuff (Ceylon), not the cheap knockoff (Cassia), where a single teaspoon of powder can exceed the maximum recommended daily dose of coumarin (for flyweights or just generally small people). If you're in the supermarket and it doesn't say which type of cinnamon it is, it's bound to be Cassia. When buying straight bark (not powder): Cassia will be thick, rolled pieces, while Ceylon is thin pieces rolled up into each other.

In practice it was mostly a seasonal issue, e.g. Zimtsterne contain ludicrous amounts of cinnamon and you try telling a kid it can only have one.

And while I'm at it, the cucumber saga: Like with many such things it was the industry who asked for a EU regulation as previously there were differing national standards and they couldn't readily agree on a uniform one. Long story short if growers grow cucumbers straight (not hard) and to a certain size (also not hard), then a certain amount will fit into a standard box, which will have an approximately uniform weight, and a certain amount of those boxes fit onto a standard euro pallet of which a certain amount fit onto a standard lorry bed. Thus, "I'd like to buy a lorry load of cucumbers" is something that makes sense, supermarkets know how many cucumbers they're going to get and they can sell them by piece, not by weight, and everything works out.

Fades ,

What a rollercoaster, I was so excited until the last bit :(

BaardFigur ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    GekkoState ,

    Tech sites have said that Mozilla probably has their native version already done so it's ready day 1.

    But these new rules by apple might put a damper on them actually offering it. Mozilla is a non profit, and apple is going to require a $0.50 tax on every app "for each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold".

    I just don't see how how Mozilla could carry that cost considering they are at over 100 million installs on Android alone.

    iknowitwheniseeit ,

    I guess this change would work in conjunction with requirements to support sideloading in the EU too.

    kayazere ,

    Non-profits are exempt from this install tax.

    moon ,

    It's amazing how much of the bare minimum they're doing.

    Dariusmiles2123 ,

    I was happy already with Firefox on my work iPhone but I’ll be happier now that I can just delete Safari

    slaacaa ,

    Wow, amazing news (as an EU citizen). Will definitely check out the “proper” Ff once it’s out

    BigDanishGuy ,

    So Firefox gets to run extensions now? Cool! I've missed using my iPad for youtube

    YurkshireLad ,

    Damn you, allow this everywhere else too, you pedantic buggers!!

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • technology@lemmy.world
  • random
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines
    •