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Knowledge Based Rules

Outer Wilds changed my life then Tunic changed it again

Edit: Game Recommendations by the people in the comments:

And some game recommendations by me to add on to the post:

  • Taiji
    • A 2D puzzle game where you slowly unravel how to solve each different element of the puzzles, eventually culminating in a massive puzzle gauntlet. Basically identical in concept and execution to The Witness, but still very much its own unique and fun game.
  • The Golden Idol
    • A puzzle game where each level you must examine a scene to figure out exactly what happened, eventually piecing together the full story over several levels. Don't let the art style put you off, it's an incredibly well done game. Most similar to Return of the Obra Dinn in concept.
  • Stories: The Path of Destinies
    • an action RPG with a branching choice-driven storyline, but not every story has a happy ending... You'll piece together the true story over multiple playthroughs and eventually find the one true path. It wasn't a particularly life-changing game but it was still a lot of fun and worth checking out if it sounds interesting!
androogee ,

Actively trying to lobotomize myself so I can play Obra Dinn for the first time again

jojo ,
@jojo@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

"Huh so apparently she got killed by a falling ship mast? Alrighty."

<- clueless

Smorty ,

Outer wilds is soooo good, so thank you for reminding me that tunic exists, I'll get that one now.

Ashen44 OP ,

do it do it do it do it do it it's so good

Smorty ,

I just got it and wow it's real interesting. I got that one big golden thingy to spew out magical lines and stuff, and I got my sword, currently seeking that shield.

Ashen44 OP ,

Good luck, and remember: always read the manual!

Sibbo ,
@Sibbo@sopuli.xyz avatar

Disco Elysium!

Ashen44 OP ,

There is a framed picture of Kim Kitsuragi in my parent's house, maybe I should actually play it...

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

Eh really?!

Now I want one.

Jumuta ,
@Jumuta@sh.itjust.works avatar

holy shit wawa

McFarius ,

Kingdom Come: Deliverance fits this bill, I think. I haven't played any of the games listed yet, so I can't compare.

Eagle0600 , (edited )
@Eagle0600@yiffit.net avatar

Not particularly. Also, Tunic really shouldn't be on the list.

Games like Tunic or Kingdom Come, you get better at the game as you learn more. With total knowledge of the game comes mastery of the gameplay.

The rest of the games on this list, there's effectively no gameplay once you know everything about the game. With total knowledge of the game comes an end to the gameplay, because knowledge literally is progression in the game. None of those more so than Outer Wilds, in which a casual replay would literally let you skip to the end of the game with no tricks, because the entire game has no progression mechanics at all. Once you know how to finish the game, you can just do it.

edit:
I stand slightly corrected about Tunic.

Ashen44 OP ,

Tunic absolutely does have tons of knowledge based progression. You can skip through massive chunks of the game simply because you have knowledge the game withheld from you. As you collect manual pages throughout the game you learn new mechanics that have always been there from the start, you simply didn't know how to access them. A big example of this is accessing the hub, which is a massive game changing discovery halfway through the game that you can access in the first 60 seconds.

Eagle0600 ,
@Eagle0600@yiffit.net avatar

Lots of knowledge-based progression, sure, but not "render the gameplay redundant" levels of knowledge-based progression. Still, I retract my statement that it shouldn't be on the list.

testfactor ,

I'll mention Fez since I think people forgot about it in the wake of all the Phil Phish drama.

Excellent game that I think fits this bill.

ObstreperousCanadian ,
@ObstreperousCanadian@lemmy.ca avatar

I still think about the Heart Cube puzzle with the observatory and red stars in that game sometimes.

Drinvictus ,

Check out chants of senaar

naevaTheRat ,
@naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

heavens vault is superior in terms of translation more accurately representing the puzzle. although the game is horrible to play and the MC is just so fucking mean

Ashen44 OP ,

yeah I definitely enjoyed the translation gameplay in heaven's vault more, but otherwise chants of senaar way outclasses it for the reasons you mentioned.

naevaTheRat ,
@naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I'm so mixed on heaven's vault. I think my steam review calls it the worst game I unquestionably recommend.

Like the moments of jaw dropping insight, when suddenly something clicks and a new interpretation comes to light. you go through the timeline updating, reinterpreting, and recontextualising. Coming out the other side with a revolutionised understanding of the world's history mwah. Or revisiting old sites and having a chuckle at how wrong you were.

Yet between that is completely pointless vehicle sections, arthritic walking frame point and click navigation, dialogue choices presented as "yes" that are acted out as "Well I know you are practically working yourself to the bone to give me a better life but have you considered that you're a shitstain and I hate you? well I'll consider it" that make the character horrible to play.

shneancy ,

don't forget the UI being just bad and deeply confusing (at least to me)

naevaTheRat ,
@naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I can't remember it being bad? what was your issue?

shneancy ,

honestly I don't remember, I played it for less than 2h and refunded it years ago. The only thing that comes to me is the timeline screen which was just? dafuq is this and why should I care? It looked important but nothing was explained

shneancy ,

I straight up could not get past the gameplay and character flaws, I decided I was flipping done even in time to get a refund.

Such a shame as I'm a massive archeology nerd

naevaTheRat ,
@naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Honestly just smoke a joint so you're in less of a hurry and do it. It's really quite good.

The character is at least not written awfully, like she's a reasonable take on a young person beaten down and mean through lifetime injustice. I think it's made worse by having you participate in dialogue choices but forcing you to be a giant arsehole.

Like I fucking hate almost all of the game that isn't the linguistics. The art can be nice I guess. Even so I think everyone should play it, it's really that good. I have a binder full of notes and translation attempts etc. Few puzzles grip me so.

shneancy ,

if I got high for it it'd be even worse. I mainly struggled with jagged movement, no time to answer properly, and the UI being shitwank. That'd give me a headache and frustrate me even more when high

Fridgeratr ,

It's on the picture already. Cool game tho

Drinvictus ,

Lol I totally did not see that. Thanks for pointing it out. I only saw the stuff on the left for some reason

Adori ,
@Adori@lemmy.world avatar

What's so good a out outer wilds? What's so appealing?

iheartneopets ,

I would buy it and give it a shot. You should know before the refund window if it's something you're interested in or not

Rai ,

Me, spending two hours slowly exploring and reading everything before launch: “oh no”

Ashen44 OP ,

Outer Wilds is a game you can beat in 20 minutes, but you spend 15 hours figuring out how to actually do that. Along the way you unravel a lovely story of curiosity and discovery and loss, while trying to solve one of the greatest mysteries in the universe. It's a beautiful game and a true once-in-a-lifetime experience in the most literal sense, since you can only experience it once. Like the other person said, if this sounds appealing to you, give it a try! You will absolutely know whether the game is for you well within the refund period.

shneancy ,

chanting: play it play it play it play it

Every person I've seen online talk about it wishes to be you, everybody wants to experience it for the first time again. To unravel the mystery once again, to have the pieces fall into place and understand it for the first time again. As the other person said - you can complete the game in 15 minutes, but it'll take you 15h+ to understand how to do that. It's a wonderful little piece of art which nobody will tell you anything about - because they don't dare to ruin your experience of playing it for the first time.

It's about space, it's about curiosity, it's about discovery, and learning, and that's about how much I'm willing to say about it.

You just have to take our word for it. It's the type of game that comes once a decade and stays in peoples' hearts forever.

MrGerrit ,

Tunic was incredible, what they did with the manual was just, great.

Ashen44 OP ,

It was so unique! I found myself getting extremely excited whenever I would see that glowing page because it was always a treat to see what new knowledge they would give me next!

verenor ,

Probably not for everyone here but 'I was a Teenage Exocolonist' is one of the best games in that category I ever played. You feel the developer's love in every character and storyline and being able to have so many different outcomes really made it feel special.

Ashen44 OP ,

I have it on my wishlist but I've put off buying it because I thought it was just a visual novel. I'll have to check it out now!

sharkfucker420 ,
@sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

Tunic mentioned

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/55468283-ef6f-4176-b561-3a74b1699cdc.png

Goodman ,

Noita, but you just suffer along instead of growing

burgers ,

the amount that I got better at noita is higher than for any other game and/or bachelor's degree

Uncouth ,
@Uncouth@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Didn't think while reading and got 'I want to fuck(ing) fellas' and I concur

Ashen44 OP ,

yeah that too

Glaive0 ,

For those looking for more. Fez is a delight and a classic in the genre. The very last puzzle is more interesting from a community lore standpoint than actually being a decent puzzle, though. So be kind to yourself on that one.

Ashen44 OP ,

I played it and bounced off long before I got medicated, I should really go back to it now that I have acquired the ability to think!

Glaive0 ,

My brain went in reverse once I got treatment, I’d get hooked for hours on these sorts of puzzles and now it’s a bit harder to fall that deep into something. I did all of fez in a weekend and it’s not entirely a weekend game.

Ashen44 OP ,

That's very interesting! My experience with treatment has mostly been that all the games I thought sounded really cool but weren't very fun turned out to actually be extremely fun, I was just utterly incapable of immersing myself in anything before treatment. Granted my issue was severe ADHD and I have no idea what yours is.

Glaive0 ,

Same. Though I’m new to treatment, so maybe there’s still hope! I’ve been trying to play through FFVII (original) lately, but before and after treatment, it’s still a lit to dedicate time to. Other games on my list feel more daunting too, and that builds a rusty-game feedback loop if I’ve already started the game as it’s more daunting the farther I get from them. Might still need some adjustment to dosage or type.

Ashen44 OP ,

It's definitely something that takes trial and error, and I know for some people the medication doesn't work very well at all unfortunately. I know you didn't ask an internet stranger for their armchair psychiatry but one thing I can recommend is that you don't let medication be your only treatment! Routines and exercise have both been extremely effective for me personally at mitigating the effects of ADHD. I know those are both almost impossible to get into precisely BECAUSE of ADHD, but if you can, try and use the medicine as a springboard to help you! I'd recommend talking to a professional about various non-pharmaceutical things you can do to supplement your medication. Good luck and try not to let anything kill your love for games!

Glaive0 ,

Thanks! I’m definitely interested in not letting meds be the only tool. I’ve heard countless times that lifestyle changes are much more effective at changing things.

I’m in the phase where I was hoping the spring board would be more noticeable. Right now, I have a marginally better ability to work at work under certain conditions at the cost of focus for the rest of the day (when I’d have an opportunity to work on my own routines-health). It’s also possible that it’s being really effective at just keeping me from drowning in some normal but overwhelming life changes. But it’s still early days. It’s definitely encouraging to hear that others get benefits from a wholistic approach to facing ADHD. Thanks!

Suppoze ,
@Suppoze@beehaw.org avatar

The Witness also falls into this category I think. I love these games as well

Ashen44 OP ,

The worst thing I did to myself was watching a playthrough of The Witness on youtube instead of playing it myself. It's right up my alley and it's such a beautiful and clever game that I would have loved to experience myself. Good news though, if you love The Witness check out Taiji on steam! It's extremely similar in concept and gameplay, just in 2D instead!

Suppoze , (edited )
@Suppoze@beehaw.org avatar

Yeah, you're going to lose some wow factor when you realize a trick or game mechanic required for the puzzles, but I think it's still worth it (if you love puzzles anyway)

Thanks for the recommendation for Taiji, it really is very similar, looks like something I'd love to play :) I put it on my wishlist!

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