Do you think people would be okay with 'Recall' if Apple did it?

Eol , 20 days ago

I'm sure we wouldn't stop hearing about how it was the right decision even if we weren't having a conversation about it.

deweydecibel , 20 days ago (edited 12 days ago)

Do I trust them? Sure, I guess, when it comes to privacy from other entities.

Do I trust that I will have privacy from Apple? Hell no. What does "local" even mean on an iCloud connected iOS device anymore? Because there's nothing on that phone Apple can't access remotely if they want to, and if any of the AI cache is backed up on iCloud, that's not local anymore.

Do I trust them with the data they're absolutely gathering? No, but I don't trust anyone with it. But I also think that data would be relatively safer with Apple than their competitors.

If Apple announced Recall? Apple wouldn't announce Recall, that's the whole point. Apple wouldn't be so brazen and stupid to push a tool that is so obviously invasive and so poorly implemented. Apple earned its trust by not making those mistakes.

But if they did decide to say fuck it and implement something like Recall, of course people would trust them. That's what trust means: consumers take them at their word. But if it's as bad as Microsoft's Recall, Apple would burn all that trust when people found out.

People don't believe Microsoft because they have long since burned any trust and good will for most of their consumers. They have proven time and time again they don't give a shit about users' wants or needs, and users have felt that. So when they announce Recall, they have no earned trust. No one believes their assurances. There's no good faith to cushion this. And it turns out everyone was right not to grant them that trust.

Does that mean I'd ever use an Apple device? Hell no. I value my privacy, but I value it on my terms, not Apple's, and I will never use a device that creates privacy through taking power from the user.

RestrictedAccount , 20 days ago

So you use Android? Or Huawei?

Surely not.

luckyeddy , 20 days ago

Probably an Android phone that has been degoogled or installed with another OS, is my guess.

Scubus , 20 days ago

Bruh what even is this comment? Huawei makes sense, but what's your deal with android? The whole point of android is that it's customizable, if you want privacy there are more than enough options.

TheAnonymouseJoker , 20 days ago

Can you elaborate on how Huawei makes sense? Or did you fall for US government propaganda? Have they provided any hard evidence in 5-6 years?

AVincentInSpace , 20 days ago (edited 20 days ago)

I use GrapheneOS. What's it to you?

Almost like mobile operating systems that are open source so I can check for myself that they're not spying on me exist or something.

Quique , 19 days ago

This is always an interesting statement “i can check for my self” i know for sure that most users never checked a single line of code in the open source projects. Maybe you do but 95% do not and make this statement.

pumpkinseedoil , 19 days ago

The 95% who don't trust the 5% who do. If there is a backdoor in open source projects it gets known very quickly.

Apart from that, open source projects usually are not for profit, they have no reason to add random unneeded data collection features for example.

hemmes , 20 days ago

creates privacy through taking power from the user.

What do you mean by that?

abfarid , 20 days ago

I'm pretty sure they mean how Apple won't let you install 3rd party apps and stuff, under the guise of pRiVAcY.

ZeroHora , 20 days ago

Do I trust them? Sure, I guess, when it comes to privacy from other entities.

Do they not send everything directly to ChatGPT? Like, that logic is not broken with that for the Apple users?

abfarid , 20 days ago

They don't, actually. Most of AI stuff is processed on device, few go to their private infrastructure, and only certain Siri requests go to ChatGPT, if you give explicit permission.

Rai , 20 days ago

That’s cool, at least. I’ve never used Siri and never will, but maybe I’ll mess around with their AI if it’s fully on-device.

abfarid , 20 days ago

Based on their claims Siri also works primarily on-device. It wasn't entirely clear if you can manually prevent the usage of their AI infrastructure, but they definitely implied it. So if that's true, there's no real reason to avoid just Siri while still using other AI stuff, cause they are one and the same. And since it runs locally, they can't even store the voice clips.

Rai , 20 days ago

I do also trust that Siri is all on-device! Otherwise it would work as well as its competitors hahaha. I just hate voice commands, and will never use them. I want to use my hands for operating devices.

abfarid , 20 days ago

I'm pretty sure it wasn't on-device before. At least not all the time. But I have some good news for you, they added the ability to type your requests to Siri 😆
And to be fair, some certain things are definitely faster by voice than doing manually, like setting a timer and stuff. It's just daunting when the assistant misunderstands you or takes ages to respond. If they fixed all that, it could actually be useful.

steal_your_face , 20 days ago

Apple now has encrypted iCloud backups so they can’t see what you backup to them. GrapheneOS is obviously better but for an off the shelf OS apple ain’t bad.

Salzkrebs , 19 days ago

They have full control over your device. It's the same for Whatsapps encryption, where Facebook can still access everything on your decrypted client.

steal_your_face , 19 days ago

Pretty sure it’s not the same at all but keep saying things brother

Salzkrebs , 19 days ago

So you manage your own encryption keys for cloud files? Thats pretty much the only way and even then you have to trust Apple because it's closed source.

Natanael , 19 days ago

Not fully encrypted unless you enable lockdown mode (and losing various features)

disguy_ovahea , 20 days ago (edited 20 days ago)

Yes. Their privacy policy is very clear. They’ve put so much effort into providing privacy features, well before every other developer in the industry, that they’ve built their customer base on it. The class action suit that they would face for compromising that policy would be massive, and they would hemorrhage customers. They have strong financial reason to maintain their word. If you ask for your GDPR compliant abstract from Apple, it’ll only include your name, phone number, and billing address.

From a security standpoint, the privacy features are top notch. They use 256-bit AES encryption for iCloud, iMessage, FaceTime, Apple Wallet, Find My iPhone, HomeKit, FileVault, Secure Enclave, and now Apple Intelligence. Apple operating systems use a UNIX kernel design, keeping the application layer independent of the operating system layer, allowing full sandbox control and requiring user authorization for any API access.

Plus, nerds love to try and find chinks in the armor. In the event of the inevitable vulnerability, Apple is always quick to release a patch.

Edit: You asked a question about Apple products outside of an Apple instance. Look for the ones with all the downvotes to get a real answer from Apple customers. PC/Android users love to condescendingly reply to and downvote Apple supporting comments. I think it makes them feel superior. Lol

helenslunch , 20 days ago

The class action suit that they would face for compromising that policy would be massive

Haha nah it wouldn't.

and they would hemorrhage customers

I mean all of their competitors give zero fucks about privacy soooo no.

disguy_ovahea , 20 days ago

You clearly don’t know many Apple users.

unknowing8343 , 20 days ago

Hi! I know many Apple users, and 100% of them bought it because "bro, it's Apple". It's basically the "im not poor" message that the Apple logo gives. They don't care about anything else aside that it's Apple and it plays CandyCrush.

disguy_ovahea , 20 days ago (edited 20 days ago)

Sounds like you know a bunch of rich kids with iPhones. Recall is a Windows feature. I assume OP was asking about Mac users. The majority of Mac users are creators, who care very much about the privacy of their work.

unknowing8343 , 20 days ago

Believe me, poor kids will save for an iPhone too. But yes, the Mac audience is a bit more professional, although I still know of a couple of dumbasses using Mac because of the aesthetics at Starbucks.

helenslunch , 20 days ago

Everyone I know is an Apple user, unfortunately

InternetCitizen2 , 20 days ago

Recall in principal is a cool idea. It is also one that M$ has not earned the trust for. I think Apple would be better received. I'm not sure I would like Apple's recall, but they have done more to foster trust than M$.

unknowing8343 , 20 days ago

I am curious why you'd think that is a good idea. I find it absolutely useless, as anything that I'd like stored... We can already easily store. But recording EVERYTHING that happens in my computer??? What kind of data hoarding obsession is this?

That is a small vulnerability away of being the biggest mistake of your life, IMO.

InternetCitizen2 , 20 days ago

Same reason file manager has a recents. It helps you return to previous work. Asking it if it remembers which paper had which conclusion or graph would make being a grad students easier. Perhaps it reminds you about some deliverable you promised in an email is due is three days. I see it as a good tool to organize productivity with. Like I said no one has earned the trust this software would require.

unknowing8343 , 20 days ago

Yes! "Recents" works fine and doesn't even need to record everything you've done and consume AI resources!

For asking about papers and so... You can do that with an AI crawler on your files!! No need to store a screenshot of everything you've ever done!

The deliverable thing, again, it can be done by directly looking up your files.

But no, somehow they went full spy instead. Companies will love to put this feature in their employee's computers.

Wanna fire someone? Let's see if they used their computer once for an unrelated-to-work task...

Now if someone gains access to your computer they'll get everything that you didn't think you even had! So great!!

InternetCitizen2 , 19 days ago

Yeah but recent only considers local files and you can't ask it which one said this or that if you don't remember. Its a good tool to keep track of a lot of things. As a student I would like that.

unknowing8343 , 19 days ago

Once you find out we've had fuzzy finders for 40 years your mind is going to be blown.

I am not saying AI is not useful. It will be an amazing use case to sprinkle some AI into fuzzyfinders, but don't let it have everything that has ever been played on screen... Passwords, private windows, one-time messages... You must be very young if you don't see the problems with that.

There is a reason why we have password protected folders and files, or how we keep some stuff locked online, or how we use private browser windows. And you want to feed all that to an AI.

InternetCitizen2 , 19 days ago (edited 19 days ago)

I know about the fuzzy finders and regular expressions. The Q was why I think it is helpful and I answered that. You're just hitting me with some dogma. You could also just know where your stuff is at and not need search tools either. Recall is a neat idea, but I don't have confidence in M$ execution or privacy.

trollbearpig , 20 days ago

And Apple has earned any trust? Jesus christ people, like less than 2 months ago they were caught restoring "deleted" photos from iCloud to user devices hahahahaha. Of course fans were excusing them talking about disk sectors like that has anything to do with cloud storage being available accidentally hahahaha.

But yeah, Apple cult followers will find a way to justify surrendering even more freedom to Apple with this BS for sure. And they will be paying top dollar for the pleasure hahahaha.

Ilandar , 20 days ago

"People" would be, yes. Apple is continuously praised by its rabid fans for engaging in anti-consumer practices disguised as "courage" or "security". There will always be a very vocal group who believe it is the greatest, most humane and ethical company on the planet. Whether the same people who criticised Microsoft would be criticising Apple is another question.

space_of_eights , 20 days ago

Do you trust apple with their claims?

No. I inherently distrust trillion dolllar tech companies in poorly regulated economies. They are able to get away with a lot of crap and they know it. That's how the Cult of Apple works. I would not be surprised when they violate their own privacy policy knowingly and structurally.

possiblylinux127 , 20 days ago

Apple fans would

Lexam , 20 days ago

I would love this this feature to be implemented in IOS. This could be used for several applications like pushing more people to Linux.

cmgvd3lw OP , 20 days ago

You had us in the first half, NGL

TheBigBrother , 20 days ago

Apple fanboys would.. other people I don't think so..

Brickardo , 20 days ago

It's closed source, so no way in hell

possiblylinux127 , 19 days ago

Apple fans will argue it is somehow better

then_three_more , 20 days ago

Apple fans and people that fall for their slick marketing would

haui_lemmy , 20 days ago

That brings me to a recent discovery:

I got a text via matrix, my notifications dont show content, yet the „places“ app suggested a route to an address given in the message.

I checked and had no appointment or other text which the app could have read it from.

This suggests to me two things: apple is reading our screens already, our governments do as well.

Can someone confirm or deny?

TheFriar , 20 days ago (edited 20 days ago)

Apple has been trying to be the next advertising giant. They’ve been growing their advertising revenue and plan on doubling it this year. They went from $4b ad revenue to $7.5 2022/2023. And if you remember correctly, that was right when you started seeing all their “apple cares about your privacy!” ads and got into it with Facebook. They’re not out here to protect our privacy. They’re trying to take the advertising revenue from the other ad giants and corner that market for themselves.

Think about it. They have gotten people locked into their OS/ecosystem. They basically hold the advertising golden ticket. They’re not here to make your digital life more private. They’re here to get your data for themselves, locking out the competition. They aim to bring more people into the gate and shut it behind them while extracting all of our advertising milk with their more advanced data udder sucking machine. The pasture looks nice, but when those gates close, the skies darken and the farmer corners you with that look in his eye.

I don’t know where that metaphor came from. But that’s how I see it in my head. The moo cow with the pretty eyelashes and the shiny bell around her neck is pulled into a false sense of security by the smiling farmer at the gate, but that shit turns dark real quick when she’s locked in.

Niiru , 20 days ago

Can't neither but it's sooo easy to achieve with telemetry.

Your friend searched for the place. Your friend send you (any) message. Anyone and their mother know you are affiliated with your friend. Said place is now connected with you.

That's why telemetry doesn't need to read your screen

abfarid , 20 days ago (edited 20 days ago)

It's weird to assume that OS doesn't "read" the notification content, because how else would it categorize them by priority, and provide smart replies and stuff.

haui_lemmy , 20 days ago

Thanks for offering your opinion. I find it weird to assume the worst at all times yet here we are.

My point is that it makes zero sense to use encryption on iOS devices at all if they read your stuff anyway, no?

abfarid , 20 days ago

Not really, it can make sense. By "reading" your messages/notifications they could just perform semantic search/categorization, or now, run a local LLM. It doesn't necessarily mean they send that data to servers or make people actually read it.
Encryption just means the data stored on your device is not saved in plaintext. So if somebody gets their hands on your phone, they won't be able to hot-wire the memory chip and directly read all the data.

haui_lemmy , 20 days ago

We have a misunderstanding here. I know that encryption as a whole will do that. But using anything else than imessage for example or whatsapp makes no sense if they can read it anyway. No point in using matrix, threema, signal and whatever. I need to get rid of this phone.

abfarid , 20 days ago

If it's the encrypted transfer protocols that you're talking about, then it's just for the transfer of data. It was never meant to make things secure on the endpoints. Encrypting your whatsapps, signals and so on just ensures the ISPs and mobile operators can't read your messages. Also prevents an occasional MITM attack. Once the data reaches your device it's not encrypted anymore, as you can read it and copy it.

haui_lemmy , 19 days ago

I know. You do get that the normal person does not think their phone manufacturer listens in on the stuff they have on their phone, yes? That is what I‘m talking about.

abfarid , 19 days ago

I don't follow. No I don't think that most people think that Apple and Samsung are spying on them. But a lot of people are concerned about NSA and the likes having access through the cellular service. Which is what the encryption is for.

cmgvd3lw OP , 20 days ago

That's the whole reason why I disabled the notifications for Lemmy app.

possiblylinux127 , 19 days ago

Its like Apple runs the notification servers or something

eveninghere , 20 days ago

I don't think Apple is planning that. For now they're trying the approach to expose metadata like email headers to their AI, but that such data has been already accessible to the search functionality anyway.

It's very different from Recall, which dumps screen capture of webpages and passwords into a database file that's only protected by access rights.

Max_P , 20 days ago

I would trust them more than Microsoft because at least they would actually store it encrypted safely and not just basic ACLs that are easy to bypass.

Even with a root shell on macOS you can't bypass certain things like access to the camera for example. You'd have to work way harder to access recall data, not in a way that malware can trivially access.

I still wouldn't use it though, because I think the whole thing is dumb and I don't need my computer to spy on me so I can remember what I did yesterday. I have browser/shell history for that.

programmer_belch , 20 days ago

Not your keys, not safe encryption. As simple as that