I woke up this morning thinking "I wonder what the 3D printing gun community thinks about stuff.", and I'm going to bed not giving a shit. Fuck these psychos.
In my experience, they tend to side with cops against minorities, but only to that extent. They tend to be the methy, gas-station-robber types who don't get on well with cops.
Not quite. White supremacists also overlap with the whole "rebel" and "rugged individualist" and "prepper" mindsets. Which are fundamentally incompatible with central authority in any way.
I guess you could really split white supremacists into two camps, the authoritarian and anti-authoritarian camps. You'll find a lot of the latter in prison gangs, and a lot of the former among the police. The two don't always get along, is my point. They both hate minorities, but they're otherwise quite different.
They are the cops. Look up just about every far-right protest in the past century and how they're given a police escort to and from the site. How the cops look the other way when there is right wing started violence and there is grave injury or death. How white supremicist cops that kill face unpaid time off way more than jail time.
These authoritarian right wingers are anti-authority to the point they want to exterminate all authority who keep them from violently suppressing anyone who doesn't want to oppress others. And they have to intimidate, cheat, lie, appoint other crooked liars because they'll never win the votes they need from a free electorate. The voting majority thinks they are wrong.
You're wrong, but also combative, clearly don't care about the right answer and are looking for a fight
So, you know
Not worth my time
It's all academic anyway. Making sure you know about the different types of white supremacist is not really important. So if you want to fight, fight someone else about something else.
You saying "broaden your sources of information" is you saying "do your own research" otherwise you would have shared sources that say otherwise.
But you're not here to argue in good faith you're here to paint me as combatitive and bow out of the argument acting like you can take some high road but still not bringing anything constructive to the conversation.
You saying "not worth your time" is you saying "I have no idea and you called me out so now I have to save face". And the fact that you consider someone replying to you in any way a "fight"? Well you're gonna have to work on that with someone professional. You aren't a victim when someone disagrees with you. Toughen up.
Don't downplay white supremacists by saying "well it's only like the meth heads that agree with the cops against minorities" because that is absolutely incorrect. And it makes you sound like you are downplaying white supremecy to not be a big deal since it's "only the meth heads" and meth heads are bad. The problem is that it's not just them but also politicians, police, solidiers, your fellow church-goers, your priests/pastors, etc.
If you are having a rough go of it currently and need someone to talk to, let me know. I'm here, friend.
No, they arent. Theyre unhappy with the current authorities, but they simp hard for the authorities of the 50s and 60s, especially the southern authorities.
I'm saying you don't have the context to understand. I do, but you're not interested in listening, so whatever. It's not a critically important issue. But from these conversations I can see I'm the only one here who actually grew up surrounded by white supremacists. The rest of y'all only have second or third hand info.
But again, it's not a hill worth dying on so whatever.
Not in the traditional sense of the word. Say Joe is a white supremacist. He's white and he's poor. He believes that all whites are better than all minorities. However, Joe is also not in power, because other white people are in power, and Joe doesn't like those other white people (though Joe prefers the powerful white people to any minorities). Joe will work with the powerful white people to keep minorities down, but otherwise his goals and believes are different than those of the powerful white people, and he resents them.
Southern prisons are full of people like Joe. Joe has some power in everyday life over minorities, due to the racist society he lives in and supports. But it's a big stretch to say Joe is in power. Cops, judges, and politicians are in power. Joe steals catalytic converters and sells meth.
White supremacist gangs are generally privileged enough to afford regular guns. Crackdowns on gun possession have overwhelmingly targeted and been selectively enforced against black and other non-white communities and left wing groups, whereas Kyle Rittenhouse shot three people at a BLM rally then walked right past the cops who didn't even intercept him, then he was acquitted. The only BLM protestor to shoot someone was basically assassinated by the feds.
There are plenty of problems with guns in the US and I think there are a few regulations around purchasing them that make sense, but this is virtually a non-issue. Printing guns is so time and resource intensive that unless you are arming a militia in a place where the general population has very limited access to guns, it's not really going to change much.
The one other thing you can do with 3d printing is make full-auto guns and modifications, and those are scary but not really important. Full auto has limited tactical use in squads in pitched warfare. Semi auto will work for 99% of cases, and if the need for full auto is coming up a lot, you're probably in a position to use your gun-to-get-a-gun. We're talking about situations where the law has already broken down, like Myanmar.
Now I can understand why the state would be scared of the tech, but I don't see it helping white supremacists. They already have all the help they need.
and if everyone were rational professionals this world would be a much better and more predictable place.
Unfortunately, as is OBVIOUS, the world is actually run and full of amateur hour irrational shits who just love things like 3d printed auto mods so they can spray a full mag in one dump, they don't care who's behind their target.
And these dumbfucks are enabling them.
And the idiots who shout "but that's censorship!" don't understand how censorship works, don't understand that youtube is a private corporation that's allowed to define it's own rules.
If they want to use a giggle switch and they're irresponsible with it and someone gets hurt, that sucks, but it doesn't have much to do with the threat of white supremacist terrorism that the other person was talking about.
If you're irresponsible and you're shooting without knowing your target and what's beyond it, you're already in breach of a law called reckless endangerment. You might be able to do a bit more damage that way, but ultimately you can empty a 30 rounder or even 3x10 rounders pretty fast with semi-automatic too. Adding another law on top to restrict the type of weapon doesn't really make anyone much safer.
Plus if you're really that concerned, just look up the Yankee Boogle. It is a tiny, easily 3d printable piece of plastic that you can drop into the action of an AR15 and make it full auto illegally in seconds. Run into cops? Chuck it in the bushes and make another tomorrow.
Resticted mag sizes? Mags aren't that hard to make out of sheet metal from a hardware store, and changing mags doesn't take that long. None of this stuff really makes people much safer if they're left inside with the shooter for hours whilst the cops cower behind their cars and stop parents from trying to save their kids.
Trying to make people unaware of this doesn't actually make anyone safer. You can cry about the rights of a multinational corporation to control speech on a platform that should be a public commons, it doesn't change what is effective, and we've all learned from decades of internet history at this point that trying to stamp stuff like this out just doesn't work. It's always going to be there.
Also, youtube isn't going to maintain its monopoly forever. It's enshittifying and peertube is waiting in the wings to pick up the slack. Then it really won't be up to youtube anymore.
Mags aren’t that hard to make out of sheet metal from a hardware store,
bwahahahahaaaa oh my, yes please, homebrew all your mags so I can hear the misfires from here
Also, youtube isn’t going to maintain its monopoly forever. It’s enshittifying and peertube is waiting in the wings to pick up the slack. Then it really won’t be up to youtube anymore.
Maybe then I'll have to stop seeing the constant whining... Trying to make people unaware - lol wtf does that even mean? FORGET YOU SAW ME!
No, not spreading the easy steps on their platform is NOT trying to make people unaware, it's simply a decision not to further propagate illegal bullshit. god though, the linguistic knots you have to tie yourselves into
none of your arguments convince me that youtube should have to carry the shit so we're back to square one. ___
It limits the accessibility of the information, meaning that both terrorists and freedom fighters will be less likely to find it. YouTube suppresses age restricted material, whether they claim to or not.
I think the people who get up in arms over 3d printed guns forget that most people will never develop the skills or even have the prerequisite skills to make one anyways. It isn't like you just plug in the printer, down load a file, and you have a gun. You need to learn alot of other things to actually make something functional. Things like ECM (electro chemical machining) is often necessary and a whole host of other skills.
That seemed random, and it kinda was: uneducated(!) guess on how long it will take the technology to both develop and popularize to the point the average kindergarten massacre* is committed with a 3D printed gun.
Is 30 years long enough for there to be a decent likelihood we’ll be able to print the switch and firearm from that video? Thanks for your responses, I can tell you know your stuff.
* to be clear, being forever upset about Sandy Hook has no bearing on my respect for responsible gun owners, presumably the vast majority
You can already easily manufacture your own firearm with a combination of 3D printers and some metal working tools. Or just buy the barrel pre made and that's 99% the effort.
More importantly, makes it harder to advertise & discourages printed parts & guns, leading to lower availability. I imagine most guns used in crimes were Initially purchased legally. I also imagine over time this will shift.
Well yes, but that doesn't affect people who plan to murder with them of course, the added time for doing it with a "machine gun" specifically is nothing compared to already getting life, the death penalty, shot by cops, or suicide at the end of their spree killing.
Though no, guns are legal to print, the switch is defined as a machine gun by the ATF and that is illegal without the proper licensure. You can print a glock no problem, but you can't sell it or make it full auto.
Most guns used in crimes were indeed initially purchased legally, but then stolen or sold illegally through a process called "straw purchasing." The ATF reports avg "time to crime" (from buying in-store until found at a crime scene) of guns they find is 11 years and the overwhelming majority were straw purchased. Now, it's important to note that this isn't to say that most guns bought have 11yr before a crime happens, rather that most guns involved in crime (which is a fraction of a percent of all guns sold/owned) took 11yr to get there.
Neither the gun nor the switch is 3d printed in that video.
But to answer your question, you can make a firearm from actual trash if you're sufficiently motivated. Look at the different guns Abe's assassin made from a couple of years ago, he even made his own ammunition because of it's lack of availability in Japan. Is the point of gun control as it currently stands to limit access to firearms period or to limit their access to good and more easily available weapons? I would say it is realistically the latter, though crossbows and air rifles are completely legal for people who are barred from owning firearms to obtain and use which sort of invalidates that too.
Not to mention that under US law black powder guns are not legally considered firearms.
While that's technically a loophole, it's left in place to allow poor people in rural areas to supplement their food budget with hunting even if they have a felony conviction.
Which, tbh, many felonies shouldn't be felonies and nonviolent felons should have a path back to rights both ballot and (normal centerfire/rimfire) bullet, imo
Any competent person with $50 and access to a hardware store can build functional firearms. This didn't start with 3D printers.
It is 100% legal in the US to build ones own firearms for personal use. Only a few states have put any additional requirements around it.
Building new full auto guns is already illegal without the proper federal licensure. It was already possible for motivated bad actors to ignore this law if they want, even before 3D printing became a moral panic.
There is already zero point to gun control. Can't stop the signal.
I used to frequent the FOSSCAD IRC ages back as a teen. This started during the post-Liberator panic, there were talks about regulating 3D printers to not allow printing guns, etc. Designed a few things, never actually printed any of it myself, but some others did. Really got me into engineering before I exited the scene, led to actually pursuing an engineering career. Was surprised to see 3D printed gun videos so openly shared, it was pretty underground for ages there.
I used to run the 3D printing community on G+ at around 500k strong, (about 10k weekly active users according to Google's stats) and I ended up actually pissing off a lot of my European users because of this. My viewpoint on it, was as an engineering exercise -- it's an amazing thing. It's not advocating for guns, and guns aren't only used to kill other people. So I stood up for the guys posting about their engineering challenges, and their work making 3D printed parts for a machine with high impact loads and loads of cycling issues.
Unfortunately, it lost me some friends, like Gina Haubage and Tomas Sanladerer -- as they disagreed highly; and wanted to ban anyone posting firearms related 3D printing content.
Absolutely, it's a fabulous engineering challenge, to make it work well on a hobbyist grade 3D printer with ordinary materials. Also a lesson in using the right tool for the right job (some parts are just better off milled or bought OtS)
Projectiles are a part of human nature. We've always thrown spears, rocks, etc -- firearms are just an extension of our better understanding of the world. I know of barely anything else that uses explosive charges that is as widely applicable to the general public. Roofing nail guns? But that's such a niche subject, it's not something people are really worried about trying to make with 3D printing. Believe me, if I had a better engineering challenge for 3D printing, I'd be suggesting it. But nothing quite hits like containing an explosive charge, and utilizing the energy in a way that performs work without destroying itself.