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wheresyoured.at

andrewrgross , to Technology in The Man Who Killed Google Search
@andrewrgross@slrpnk.net avatar

This is a great article.

Mischala ,

He's got a podcast

I'm loving it so far.

rinze ,
@rinze@infosec.pub avatar

I like it a lot, but sometimes I feel he's going to get eaten alive by the character he's created. He should tone it down a notch sometimes.

Nomecks , to Technology in The Man Who Killed Google Search

TL;DR: It was the bean counters

Balinares , to Technology in The Man Who Killed Google Search

Interesting deep dive and very much worth a read. I'd say it probably underestimates the weight of finance-related pressures coming from the CFO's office, though.

shnizmuffin , to Technology in The Man Who Killed Google Search
@shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol avatar

Prabhakar Raghavan is Search Engine syphilis.

theluddite , to Technology in The People Deliberately Killing Facebook
@theluddite@lemmy.ml avatar

I've now read several of these from wheresyoured.at, and I find them to be well-researched, well-written, very dramatic (if a little ranty), but ultimately stopping short of any structural or theoretical insight. It's right and good to document the shady people inside these shady companies ruining things, but they are symptoms. They are people exploiting structural problems, not the root cause of our problems. The site's perspective feels like that of someone who had a good career in tech that started before, say, 2014, and is angry at the people who are taking it too far, killing the party for everyone. I'm not saying that there's anything inherently wrong with that perspective, but it's certainly a very specific one, and one that I don't particularly care for.

Even "the rot economy," which seems to be their big theoretical underpinning, has this problem. It puts at its center the agency of bad actors in venture capital becoming overly-obsessed with growth. I agree with the discussion about the fallout from that, but it's just lacking in a theory beyond "there are some shitty people being shitty."

mark ,
@mark@programming.dev avatar

This is an interesting perspective, and I very much see how people can have it. Totally agree that the internet just isn't like it used to be, arguably for the worst, depending on who you ask.

As much as I hate these big tech platforms, the issue isn't that they're doing what they're doing. After all, capitalistic societies (especially the US) don't just ignore it, they actually encourage this sort of "money above all else" mentally that a lot of these CEOs and shareholders have. So what platforms are doing shouldn't surprise anyone. Maybe some of it should be made illegal, but I'd argue making new laws still won't really address the problem.

The real problem is that we (everyday people) need to take more responsibility over the mental health of ourselves and our children and just stop using this brain-rotting software. We can complain about what they're doing to humanity all we want, but if we continue to use these platforms, we're just making it easier for them to do the bad things they do.

realitista , to Technology in The People Deliberately Killing Facebook

Tl;dr?

baldingpudenda ,

Zuck and his cabal are all in on line go up even if they have to give kids to pedos(they have, and are), get people addicted, and fuck with people's mental well-being.

HAL_9_TRILLION , to Technology in The People Deliberately Killing Facebook

Good for them. The people deliberately killing Facebook, I mean.

Kraiden , to Technology in The People Deliberately Killing Facebook

those running Facebook groups routinely find that their content isn’t even being shown to those who choose to follow them thanks to Meta’s outright abusive approach to social media where the customer is not only wrong, but should ideally have little control over what they see.

inhales deeply
YOU ARE NOT THE CUSTOMER!!! YOU ARE THE PRODUCT!!!!

It astounds me how many people STILL don't understand this

Melt ,

it doesn't make sense, just say they're exploiting customers. Saying "you are product" just make people take it literally and think Facebook is wrapping people up and selling them whole package, organ and brain included, which is nonsense

then_three_more ,

Only if you don't think about it.

First you should stop and think: What is a customer?

A customer is someone that a company makes money from.

Then you think: What money have I given Facebook?

None (or extremely little)

Then you think: But Facebook makes billions. How do they do this?

They have loads of very targeted adverts.

So we who are Facebook's customers?

Advertising companies.

What makes ad space on Facebook valuable?

Their ability to target those ads to the right people based off of the data they have about them and to get you (the product) to see those ads.

Kraiden , (edited )

They should take it literally, because it is meant literally!

They're not exploiting customers, they are exploiting people. Those people are NOT their customers.

Facebook is literally selling people in data form. Everything you post, everyone you interact with, everything you look at across most of the web (not just facebook.com) is all catalogued and used to create a fingerprint that is a digital representation of you, and that is their product! "Essence of /u/Melt for sale here"

Their customers are advertisers.

ETA: Link

olympicyes ,

Facebook is a cookbook! It was there in the name the whole time!!!

harrys_balzac ,

Facebook is made from people!

slickgoat ,

Only if you are insanely literal. You are most definitely the product.

h3mlocke ,
@h3mlocke@lemm.ee avatar

Sounds like you've been having a lot conversations with 7 year olds, weird.

tootoughtoremember ,

Saying "you are product" just make people take it literally and think Facebook is wrapping people up and selling them whole package, organ and brain included, which is nonsense

You're the only person I've ever seen who has taken this expression literally.

Buddahriffic ,

Seems like I've been seeing more and more comments on Lemmy that are dumb takes like the one above. Makes me wonder if Lemmy is on the radar of more of the bad faith posters sowing division but having no idea how to get through to the demographic here.

retrieval4558 ,

Damn metaphors must scare the shit out of you, huh.

And no I don't mean you literally defecate at the thought.

tsonfeir , to Technology in The People Deliberately Killing Facebook
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

Facebook is still around? Wow I left that over a decade ago.

Twinklebreeze , to Technology in The People Deliberately Killing Facebook

Aren't they more successful than ever? Sure anyone with half a brain avoids them, but everyone's Grandma has an account now. Still a net positive.

Gsus4 , (edited )
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

And they are serving lots of ads under the radar and shaping their tastes by intermixing the ads seamlessly with entertainment to bypass our advertisement "antibodies". Sometimes I find some of them saying things and having interests I've never known they had only to find their feed randomly peppered with these interlopers.

GissaMittJobb ,

The article is talking about killing it from a product usefulness-perspective, not a monkey making-perspective.

Typhoonigator ,

Please never fix that typo

GissaMittJobb ,

I'll keep it, cheers

homesweethomeMrL , to Technology in The Man Who Destroyed Google Search

So what if we let a dumbass run google and drive it into the ground? Potentially short term gains!! YES! Let's do that.

z3rOR0ne , to Technology in The Man Who Destroyed Google Search
@z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml avatar

Great article. The author, Ed Zitron, covers this same topic on his podcast, Better Offline. I highly recommend it.

ripcord , (edited )
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

There's even a link to it at the top of the article and it's mentioned in the summary of this post

z3rOR0ne , (edited )
@z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh I missed that, lol. Oh well, it's worth mentioning regardless. Great podcast. Thanks for pointing that out.

credo , (edited ) to Technology in The Man Who Destroyed Google Search

Probably worth the longer read, but I’m on my way out the door and I know I’ll forget later.. I had one of the robots gen up a tldr.

TLDR;

The article discusses the internal challenges and strategic shifts at Google, particularly around the management and prioritization of its search engine functionality versus advertising revenue. It starts with a "code yellow" alert raised due to declining search revenue, a term derived humorously from the color of a tank top worn by a former VP. This crisis led to a focus shift towards maximizing revenue, often at the expense of user experience and search quality.

Ben Gomes, a foundational figure in Google Search, and others expressed concerns about the increasing influence of advertising demands over search integrity. This tension resulted in significant leadership changes, with Prabhakar Raghavan taking over as the head of Google Search. The narrative suggests that Raghavan, who had a controversial tenure at Yahoo, brought a similar growth-focused approach to Google, prioritizing revenue over product quality. This shift is portrayed as part of a broader problem in tech, where managerial focus on growth and profits undermines the quality and utility of technology products.

The author uses these events at Google as a microcosm of larger issues in Silicon Valley, critiquing the pervasive "Rot Economy" mindset that prioritizes financial metrics over genuine innovation and user satisfaction. The story serves as a cautionary tale about the consequences of allowing revenue-driven management to dictate the direction of tech companies, potentially leading to a decline in product quality and innovation.

Edit: I especially like how it kept the detail about the yellow shirt. This is the context we need.

Zoboomafoo ,
@Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net avatar

"I implemented this model at Yahoo!"

"So you're the reason why Yahoo! is a useless search engine and its market share crashed?"

"Yes"

"You're hired!"


This sort of shit makes me want to go into business myself to show everyone how easy it would be to make long-term stable growth by just not squeezing employees and customers for every cent

QuarterSwede ,
@QuarterSwede@lemmy.world avatar

The issue is the mentality of lack of growth = death and low shareholder returns. When you get as big as these giants this is a valid concern and not an easy problem to solve. You have to be highly creative and find new ways to bring revenue in. Search is stuck in a large rut and is why they’re looking at AI to help spur more growth.

Veedem , to Technology in The Man Who Destroyed Google Search
@Veedem@lemmy.world avatar

Read this a week or so ago and it's a fantastic summarization of the core problem. I almost never use Google search anymore. I go between DuckDuckGo and Perplexity.

Odelay42 ,

I've tried to use DDG for a few weeks now, and I find it gets worse the more specific I search.

For general things, it's fine. But if I'm looking for an installation tutorial for a certain kind of plumbing hardware, it struggles to show me anything but brand and retail pages.

Wojwo ,

I started using Kagi. Yeah, I have to pay for it. But we're paying for Google too, kagi is just more honest about how.

Odelay42 ,

Can I use kagi as a default search for my browser?

I'm trying to use Firefox on desktop and mobile more.

xep ,
ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Yep!

I use it on FF mobile and desktop all the time, for the last 6 months or so. It is great.

Wojwo ,

They have a browser plug-in. I use it on Firefox on my desktop and on my Android phone. My uses it on Chrome on both as well.

Bogasse ,
@Bogasse@lemmy.ml avatar

On Firefox I think you have to right click on the address bar while the website is open to register a new search engine?

Chee_Koala ,

You could try a SearXNG someone hosted, it's FOSS and not worse than Google :)

Enkers ,

I started finding DDG's results just as bad as Google's, so I switched to SearXNG and have been pretty happy with it so far.

Its open source so anyone can run an instance if they wish. I feel like this sort of model is much more resistant to enshitification.

Hominine ,
@Hominine@lemmy.world avatar

I run a SearXNG instance myself and while it is a fine aggregator, it's important to note what it is and isn't. For instance, Sear does not have a dedicated search index and leans on third party API calls (to indexes such as the aforementioned Google and DDG listings.) This is my understanding, feel free to correct it.

For my money, I like the anonymity that Sear can afford and that it hides the AI bullshit pouring into the UIs. My son and I were talking over the weekend about how unreliable he is finding the move to AI search.

Edit: A list of public SearXNG instances for anyone that doesn't want to spin up their own.

Enkers ,

Yes you're absolutely right. The problem of aggregators is that if all the aggregated searches go to shit, then so does it. Garbage in, garbage out.

asdfasdfasdf ,

SearXNG is just a meta search engine. It uses Google and DDG under the hood, among others. How is it possible that it's better?

Enkers ,

Because the aggregated weighted result ranking provides a more useful page rank than any individual search engine, and if any search engine tries to (accidentally or otherwise) stuff specific results into the top ranks, it doesn't matter. It'll be deranked because no other engine displays those results highly. In a similar manner, it deranks targeted SEO attempts unless multiple platforms are targeted.

Don't get me wrong, it still has its problems. For example, if the individual search engines all get a bit too samey, then it will as well.

kambusha ,

I've been using Perplexity for 2-3 months now. On 2 occasions, it flat out lied to me. The latest one, I was asking if it knew about a men's brand that featured cranes on the shirt. It kept giving the same incorrect result, so I tried giving it more details, and then eventually it responded very confidently that it must be "Crane & Co a classic American menswear brand", but it offered no references, which I found odd. Then I asked if it just made that up, and it confessed to fabricating a lie...

did you just make that up?

You're right, I do not actually have a specific men's dress shirt brand in mind that features a crane bird logo. I should not have fabricated a brand name and details. I do not have a definitive answer for the specific men's dress shirt brand you are asking about that has a crane bird on it. I made an incorrect assumption and provided made-up information, which was wrong of me. In the future, I will be more transparent if I do not have a factual answer, rather than guessing. Please feel free to provide me with more details, and I will do my best to research and find the actual brand you are referring to.

Veedem ,
@Veedem@lemmy.world avatar

That’s odd. Were you using Pro? I find pro to be less reliable, oddly enough. I always check the citations which is why I like their approach.

Rozz ,

Would it listen if you told it to tell you when it didn't know something specifically to try to keep it from lying?

Rozz ,

Hello me. Unless I really can't find a result I'm looking for or I need a map feature. I don't use google

seaQueue ,
@seaQueue@lemmy.world avatar

Check out You.com too, their search is far better than Google on a lot of the technical topics I've searched for.

Edit: ugh, it was good. Now they're shovelling LLM interaction front and center and the original search functionality is completely buried. If you can find their original search interface it might still be worth a look.

j4yt33 ,

I've been using Startpage and been quite happy with it

daddy32 ,

Well, but that's just Google minus some of the dark patterns.

Albbi , to Technology in The Man Who Destroyed Google Search

Great article. I subscribed to the newsletter after reading it.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

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