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Knowledge Based Rules

Outer Wilds changed my life then Tunic changed it again

Edit: Game Recommendations by the people in the comments:

And some game recommendations by me to add on to the post:

  • Taiji
    • A 2D puzzle game where you slowly unravel how to solve each different element of the puzzles, eventually culminating in a massive puzzle gauntlet. Basically identical in concept and execution to The Witness, but still very much its own unique and fun game.
  • The Golden Idol
    • A puzzle game where each level you must examine a scene to figure out exactly what happened, eventually piecing together the full story over several levels. Don't let the art style put you off, it's an incredibly well done game. Most similar to Return of the Obra Dinn in concept.
  • Stories: The Path of Destinies
    • an action RPG with a branching choice-driven storyline, but not every story has a happy ending... You'll piece together the true story over multiple playthroughs and eventually find the one true path. It wasn't a particularly life-changing game but it was still a lot of fun and worth checking out if it sounds interesting!
DrCake ,

I’m interested in these types of games but fear that as I don’t have a a lot of time to play and don’t have regular times to play, I’d get half way through and just forget what’s going on.

Suburbanl3g3nd ,

Use a notepad. I find jotting notes down as a go helps a ton

tfw_no_toiletpaper ,

Even funnier if you return to the game like one or two years later and remember absolutely nothing.

rbits ,

Yeah. Had that problem with Chants of Senaar and Return of the Obra Dinn. Keeping notes definitely helps though.

Adori ,
@Adori@lemmy.world avatar

What's so good a out outer wilds? What's so appealing?

iheartneopets ,

I would buy it and give it a shot. You should know before the refund window if it's something you're interested in or not

Rai ,

Me, spending two hours slowly exploring and reading everything before launch: “oh no”

Ashen44 OP ,

Outer Wilds is a game you can beat in 20 minutes, but you spend 15 hours figuring out how to actually do that. Along the way you unravel a lovely story of curiosity and discovery and loss, while trying to solve one of the greatest mysteries in the universe. It's a beautiful game and a true once-in-a-lifetime experience in the most literal sense, since you can only experience it once. Like the other person said, if this sounds appealing to you, give it a try! You will absolutely know whether the game is for you well within the refund period.

shneancy ,

chanting: play it play it play it play it

Every person I've seen online talk about it wishes to be you, everybody wants to experience it for the first time again. To unravel the mystery once again, to have the pieces fall into place and understand it for the first time again. As the other person said - you can complete the game in 15 minutes, but it'll take you 15h+ to understand how to do that. It's a wonderful little piece of art which nobody will tell you anything about - because they don't dare to ruin your experience of playing it for the first time.

It's about space, it's about curiosity, it's about discovery, and learning, and that's about how much I'm willing to say about it.

You just have to take our word for it. It's the type of game that comes once a decade and stays in peoples' hearts forever.

Rai ,

I hear you’re taking reccos. May I suggest The Forgotten City? It’s not quite the same, but has a very similar “learn wtf is happening* as you go” mechanic. Also it’s one of my favorites.

Ashen44 OP ,

Another comment recommended that as well, I'll add that to the list! I always love a good "wtf is going on" type mystery.

Xttweaponttx ,

YYEEAAAAAAHHHH outer wilds!!! FUCK that game just absolutely slaps, top tier experience.

Drinvictus ,

Check out chants of senaar

naevaTheRat ,
@naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

heavens vault is superior in terms of translation more accurately representing the puzzle. although the game is horrible to play and the MC is just so fucking mean

Ashen44 OP ,

yeah I definitely enjoyed the translation gameplay in heaven's vault more, but otherwise chants of senaar way outclasses it for the reasons you mentioned.

naevaTheRat ,
@naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I'm so mixed on heaven's vault. I think my steam review calls it the worst game I unquestionably recommend.

Like the moments of jaw dropping insight, when suddenly something clicks and a new interpretation comes to light. you go through the timeline updating, reinterpreting, and recontextualising. Coming out the other side with a revolutionised understanding of the world's history mwah. Or revisiting old sites and having a chuckle at how wrong you were.

Yet between that is completely pointless vehicle sections, arthritic walking frame point and click navigation, dialogue choices presented as "yes" that are acted out as "Well I know you are practically working yourself to the bone to give me a better life but have you considered that you're a shitstain and I hate you? well I'll consider it" that make the character horrible to play.

shneancy ,

don't forget the UI being just bad and deeply confusing (at least to me)

naevaTheRat ,
@naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I can't remember it being bad? what was your issue?

shneancy ,

honestly I don't remember, I played it for less than 2h and refunded it years ago. The only thing that comes to me is the timeline screen which was just? dafuq is this and why should I care? It looked important but nothing was explained

shneancy ,

I straight up could not get past the gameplay and character flaws, I decided I was flipping done even in time to get a refund.

Such a shame as I'm a massive archeology nerd

naevaTheRat ,
@naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Honestly just smoke a joint so you're in less of a hurry and do it. It's really quite good.

The character is at least not written awfully, like she's a reasonable take on a young person beaten down and mean through lifetime injustice. I think it's made worse by having you participate in dialogue choices but forcing you to be a giant arsehole.

Like I fucking hate almost all of the game that isn't the linguistics. The art can be nice I guess. Even so I think everyone should play it, it's really that good. I have a binder full of notes and translation attempts etc. Few puzzles grip me so.

shneancy ,

if I got high for it it'd be even worse. I mainly struggled with jagged movement, no time to answer properly, and the UI being shitwank. That'd give me a headache and frustrate me even more when high

Fridgeratr ,

It's on the picture already. Cool game tho

Drinvictus ,

Lol I totally did not see that. Thanks for pointing it out. I only saw the stuff on the left for some reason

McFarius ,

Kingdom Come: Deliverance fits this bill, I think. I haven't played any of the games listed yet, so I can't compare.

Eagle0600 , (edited )
@Eagle0600@yiffit.net avatar

Not particularly. Also, Tunic really shouldn't be on the list.

Games like Tunic or Kingdom Come, you get better at the game as you learn more. With total knowledge of the game comes mastery of the gameplay.

The rest of the games on this list, there's effectively no gameplay once you know everything about the game. With total knowledge of the game comes an end to the gameplay, because knowledge literally is progression in the game. None of those more so than Outer Wilds, in which a casual replay would literally let you skip to the end of the game with no tricks, because the entire game has no progression mechanics at all. Once you know how to finish the game, you can just do it.

edit:
I stand slightly corrected about Tunic.

Ashen44 OP ,

Tunic absolutely does have tons of knowledge based progression. You can skip through massive chunks of the game simply because you have knowledge the game withheld from you. As you collect manual pages throughout the game you learn new mechanics that have always been there from the start, you simply didn't know how to access them. A big example of this is accessing the hub, which is a massive game changing discovery halfway through the game that you can access in the first 60 seconds.

Eagle0600 ,
@Eagle0600@yiffit.net avatar

Lots of knowledge-based progression, sure, but not "render the gameplay redundant" levels of knowledge-based progression. Still, I retract my statement that it shouldn't be on the list.

Thcdenton ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/7b24f1a4-0e8b-487a-8da4-ccfef836f769.webm

terrifyingtuba ,

The Forgotten City is good

tills13 ,

Try Deathloop. It's actually a lot of fun once you get into it. Though the game will outright TELL you progression information every so often which can be annoying.

Ashen44 OP ,

I did try it and what I played was really fun but once I left the first zone, after 5 minutes the entire game would slow to an unplayable crawl :(

tills13 ,

Bit of a shill statement but Xbox + game pass is serious value if you can afford it.

Ashen44 OP ,

I have used gamepass, though if you mean on an actual Xbox unfortunately I am too poor for that option :(

naevaTheRat ,
@naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

There's an interesting game that's kinda similar called minit or something 60 second* time limit to play a zelda game but you keep some progress iirc.

It's an itch thing.

That skyrim mod turned game umm forgotten city? might also count. Good shit.

Ashen44 OP ,

Oh Minit! That was such a well done little game. It really lived up to its name in terms of length but that made sure it never let itself get stale. I'll have to check out The Forgotten City! I wrote it off because the other big Skyrim mod that's its own game, Enderal, just didn't mesh with me, but several people have recommended it now so I guess I'll have to give it a shot!

verenor ,

Probably not for everyone here but 'I was a Teenage Exocolonist' is one of the best games in that category I ever played. You feel the developer's love in every character and storyline and being able to have so many different outcomes really made it feel special.

Ashen44 OP ,

I have it on my wishlist but I've put off buying it because I thought it was just a visual novel. I'll have to check it out now!

euphoric_cat ,
@euphoric_cat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

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    Rozauhtuno ,
    @Rozauhtuno@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Obra Dinn and Outer Wilds are about unveiling a mistery.

    Heaven's Vault is about deciphering an ancient lost language.

    Ashen44 OP ,

    These are games where a major portion of the gameplay involves learning about the game. In Heaven's Vault and Chants of Sennaar this manifests as learning languages. In Return of the Obra Dinn this is figuring out what happened on the ship. In Tunic and The Outer Wilds this is based around knowledge checks, or mechanics that are present from the start of the game but you only learn how to exploit them much later.

    Piemanding ,

    There's also Roguelikes where most of the progression is just getting better at the game and knowledge on things to do.

    Ultraviolet ,

    You know how metroidvanias gate progression by having, for example, a jump you can't make without an upgrade, or a poison area you can't survive passing through without a way to be immune to poison, and so on? That, but instead of it being an upgrade your character gets, it's knowledge. You find a clue somewhere in the game that allows you to solve a puzzle elsewhere. You were always able to take the actions needed to solve it, you just had to learn that you could.

    tkk13909 ,
    @tkk13909@sopuli.xyz avatar

    I love Celeste for this exact reason!

    Potatos_are_not_friends ,

    Is Celeste really knowledge-based? I thought it was muscle memory.

    I only played it for like 15 minutes before realizing I don't have good reflexes.

    tkk13909 ,
    @tkk13909@sopuli.xyz avatar

    There is a lot of muscle memory but what I'm saying is that you have access to every movement method from the start of the game.

    Eagle0600 ,
    @Eagle0600@yiffit.net avatar

    That's not really what this meme is talking about.

    Almost all games are about mastery in some way, in which you use knowledge to progress, or to make progression easier, but the games listed have knowledge as progression itself, which is different. Imagine if simply knowing how to perform the right jump let you skip straight from the first chapter to the final climb up the mountain, and furthermore that the game expects you to do precisely that, and that's the kind of thing this meme is about.

    SimplyTadpole ,
    @SimplyTadpole@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Hm, if so, then does Hypnospace Outlaw also count? That game has a lot of secrets and special programs that let you find hidden/unique stuff, and it's used to find crucial things in the final chapter, but most of them are already available right from the beginning if you know where to look, and the game is designed in a way where finding those early on is intentional for second-time players (either because it helps skip some chapters, or gives you useful upgrades sooner than you'd normally find them).

    Eagle0600 ,
    @Eagle0600@yiffit.net avatar

    I have never played Hypnospace Outlaw, but it sounds like a solid maybe.

    dexa_scantron ,
    @dexa_scantron@lemmy.world avatar

    Lingo too! Gosh I wish I could forget Lingo and play through it again.

    Ashen44 OP ,

    I experienced Lingo through my friend discord streaming their playthrough of it. It's an awesome game but my goodness did we have to have a thesaurus open for some of the puzzles! I definitely would recommend anyone reading this check it out though, it's incredibly unique! I'd say the closest game in terms of vibes is Antichamber, but with word puzzles.

    Suppoze ,
    @Suppoze@beehaw.org avatar

    The Witness also falls into this category I think. I love these games as well

    Ashen44 OP ,

    The worst thing I did to myself was watching a playthrough of The Witness on youtube instead of playing it myself. It's right up my alley and it's such a beautiful and clever game that I would have loved to experience myself. Good news though, if you love The Witness check out Taiji on steam! It's extremely similar in concept and gameplay, just in 2D instead!

    Suppoze , (edited )
    @Suppoze@beehaw.org avatar

    Yeah, you're going to lose some wow factor when you realize a trick or game mechanic required for the puzzles, but I think it's still worth it (if you love puzzles anyway)

    Thanks for the recommendation for Taiji, it really is very similar, looks like something I'd love to play :) I put it on my wishlist!

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