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2024 is going to be the beginning of the end of us all

No I’m not catastrophising.

The world is slowly lurching towards a fully fascist led America, India, Hungary, Russia, Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Argentina.

Instead people are either ignorant or blaming “wokeism”* for their problems.

I have no clue what to do and this is literally a car crash in slow motion.

I’m despondent because I’m going to be crushed under the boot when the time comes and my morals get in the way of my survival instinct.

Humans are repeating the mistakes of the past. It’s just so anxiety inducing.

*Woke is a useless term promulgated by fascists to dog whistle the things they really want to hate - feminism, socialism, LGBTQIA+, immigration, brown/black people, equality and diversity.

Dackel , (edited )

Maybe we can still win against these fascist assholes

Cowbee ,

We 100% can, fascism grows louder as Socialism gains in strength.

Olhonestjim ,

And fascism eats itself, by it's very nature.

JawesomeStreetStorks ,

I feel you, and with climate change it's not like we can just escape them and go else where their *stupidity * will be the death of us all.

The masses are asses.

tazy ,
@tazy@lemmy.tazy.xyz avatar

Woke is a hijacked term by the facists it literally means to be socially aware of the problems faced by different people in a society

einat2346 ,
@einat2346@lemmy.today avatar

No you see, they're discovering that the world is fucked up. As opposed to us who have always known it's fucked up, that's how we get to enjoy our lives 😀

WTF uncle

cheese_greater ,

Its like ya, I'd rather be AWOKE than ASSleep

AnnaFrankfurter ,

If only this was that simple. A "Democratic country" doesn't just wake up one day vote for a bad guy and become fascist. This has been happening all over the world for last few decades. All the past politician created few policies out of fear, out of ignorance, out of greed, and out of malice that edged us towards this. And now most of the people have accepted this blatant abuse of our freedom, our privacy, our democracy as just part of life. There is nothing that anyone can do to stop this. Because we don't bother reading EULA because we don't demand the companies the governments to do better we just sign away our rights our freedom because we have better things to do.

Cowbee ,

Why do you think this is? What are the root causes?

Carrick1973 ,

Fear. It's that simple. An authoritarian mindset is one predicated on fear. After 9/11, Dick Cheney and George H. W. Bush used fear to drive their policies of restrictive freedoms. They pushed these through so they could amass additional powers and push government money towards their friends. Once these freedoms are gone, they almost never come back. The Republican party has been running on a campaign of fear ever since. Quite honestly, they've used fear as their driving force since the '80s. Back then it was fear of the Communists, and then it was fear of 'big government" and then it was fear of immigrants, or "the gays", or restrictions of the second amendment, or caravans of people coming up from South America. Fear is the only thing that they can run on since they have no actual plans to move our country forward.

Cowbee ,

But why? What's the actual, underlying, root cause? Fear doesn't appear out of nowhere.

littlecolt ,
@littlecolt@lemm.ee avatar

Why do it? Money and power.

Cowbee ,

So we can track that back and see that the real reason is the system that motivates and allows for accumulation of wealth and power, not necessarily fear alone.

littlecolt ,
@littlecolt@lemm.ee avatar

Having power over others is certainly not system-unique.

Cowbee ,

Not unique, certainly, but having a system built on it doesn't seem to be a good idea.

littlecolt ,
@littlecolt@lemm.ee avatar

Stop edging yourself, you want to say capitalism is the problem so bad.

Cowbee ,

It is, I thought that was obvious.

AnnaFrankfurter ,

I think Capitalism is also just part of the problem. China and north Korea are somewhat to not at all capitalistic but still none of the citizens who live there have any freedom.

I don't know what causes countries and their citizens who fought and sacrificed their lives for freedom to give it all up.

I don't know how we can fix this.

flambonkscious ,

It's human insecurity (read: fear).

And maybe greed, too

littlecolt ,
@littlecolt@lemm.ee avatar

It is. It was just funny how you were edging yourself with it.

hydroptic ,

Human stupidity and malice – they're an infinite resource that just keeps on taking. We've gotten this far despite ourselves, not because

cows_are_underrated ,

I have hope for Germany. The past few weeks we had enormous protests(over 3m people protested in total) and multiple petitions against fascists and the AfD(the party that literally want to deportate everyone who isn't "German"(this means even if you have a German passport, but came from another country youre going to get deportated)) had blown up. Their youth organisation is now officially a right wing extremists organisation. I still have hope, that we may save our country before it's to late.

LordGimp ,

I don't have hope for a Germany that vocally supports a fascist, genocidal regime (hint: it rhymes with Smisreal).

FuzzChef ,

No I'm not catastrophising.

2024 is going to be the beginning of the end of us all

Yeah, I don't know about that.

Chakravanti ,

Yeah, he's completely fucking wrong.

  1. The beginning is decades ago.

  2. We're so close to the end it's not a catastrophic enough a description to be close to real.

He's also wrong about survival instinct. There is stupidity which will go insane soon but anyone who fucking gets it knows there is nothing but a true end to all life on this planet. I call 2030. Not that you'll be here to say otherwise. If you are you won't because we'll be that gorramn close and you'll be stupid and go insane or just enjoy your last few minutes because you won't get much more of those.

If it ain't the baked planet, it'll be a virus bio-/tech- whatever but they won't make it past the shortly thereafter former, or closed source AI $ add repeat of the last, or....well...yeah..theres a dozen others bidding on annihilation and no one to counter a thing. They'll all suck the dollar worship and go to work in a guzzling baker machine (automobile in case you're stupid and don't just get it).

Hazmatastic ,

Off topic but

gorram

Found the browncoat

Chakravanti ,

Gorram right. Got all the comics, books (bar the most recent which I intend to acquire soon), and board/card games bar i think one of the dice but not Shiny Dice, I got that too.

lolcatnip ,

Catastrophizing doesn't mean the same thing as acknowledging the severity of a problem.

recarsion ,

Hungary is seriously fucked up at the moment but calling it fascism is a huge stretch. It's not like these fuckers actually believe in anything, they'll just do whatever gets them the votes and the cash. Not that the tendencies aren't worrying (in fact I've left the country because of them), but it's not a full blown dictatorship yet. Source: am Hungarian.

bouh ,

The thing is that Hitler didn't make the gas chamber right away in 1933. It's a process. But wasn't it already fascist in 1933? Was nazi Germany fascist when Hitler was elected? Before that, when the nsdap started to be powerful enough to influence the politics? Or only once the weimar Republic was officially dead? What if he had kept the name of the weimar Republic, would it still not be fascist then?

Take trump: he's not president yet, and he didn't destroy democracy yet. But he already tried a coup. Isn't he a fascist himself? What does he need to do to actually make fascism happen?

recarsion ,

Good point, it's always a tendency and I don't know where the cut off is. Subjectively I'd say Hungary is nowhere near there. Especially since as I see it, our government's tendencies don't come from genuine ideological conviction but selfish interest. If anything it's an oppressive oligarchy, but not fascism. I hope I'm not just coping.

Wikipedia's definition:

Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

In my understanding, only some of these things can be argued to be true about Hungary, and none of them to an extreme extent. Of course I don't know the future and I won't excuse the crimes of my government, again I left the country because of them, but I want to be realistic and fascism isn't a word I would throw around lightly.

GiveMemes ,

Nowhere did I find in the definition of fascism that they the fascists can't only be in it for their own gain.

Fascism (n) -

a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

In fact, I'd argue that fascist leaders are almost exclusively in it for their own gain, but that's just my .02$

lolcatnip ,

The thing about fascism is that it doesn't require true believers at the top. It doesn't matter if the leaders care only about their own personal wealth and power if they're willing to promote fascist ideals to their followers.

bouh ,

The natural social hierarchy is racism in other words. And Hungary is leader in Europe to promote anti-immigration laws.

Hungary is also punished by Europe because it doesn't respect many human rights, especially regarding media, police, and separation of state powers. I don't know the details, so maybe you have more about it?

The problem with fascism is that it is a conservative slippery slope. It starts with mild racism or protectionism or isolationism, add authority, which slowly becomes nationalism and then suppression of opposition. Starts conservative laws to remove rights from groups of people (minorities, women,strangers...).

It's a boiling frog problem. You can only be sure when a coup happen, but sometimes you don't even need a coup. Hitler was elected. Purges are a definite proof, but they are often hidden.

trendpickle ,

Hi,
Why do you think India is a fascist country? I believe its the most democratic country ever. However looking forward to your perspective.

BananaTrifleViolin ,

Modi is seemingly dismantling Indian democracy under the auspices of hindu nationalism and populism.

Riderzz ,

Wtf do you think middle eastern countries are doing then?

lolcatnip ,

What does that have to do with India?

Riderzz ,

Nothing. I'm pointing out the similarities not just india and middle east, Asian countries but literally every other developing country. This isn't just 1 or 2.

BluesF ,

The UK won't be far behind. Our left leaning party is likely to get in at the next election, but the overton window has shifted faaaar in the past 10-15 years and today's labour may just be yesterday's Tories. Who's to say what tomorrow's Tories will be...

blackn1ght ,

The only hope is that Labour are enacting a strategy of just getting elected first. Once they're in they can start moving to the left a bit more.

HowManyNimons ,

From listening to people in the know, there is still hope that Labour are in a phase of "underpromising" so that they can't be accused of irresponsibility. When government stops actively making things worse with its every decision, the economy may start to recover, at which point the government's economic levers might start to be worth pulling. Right now we just have to stop lurching, and start making friends with Europe again.

raph55 ,

You can add France in your list.

Our next leader will probably be a fascist, and the root cause is (to some degrees) our current government.

bouh ,

Current government in France is already fascist.

Powerpoint ,

And Canada. Pierre Poilievre and the current crop of Conservatives support fascists.

EmperorHenry ,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

We're been living in an oligarchy since the mid 1970s, we've had a surveillance state since 2001 and the US government has been allowed to indefinitely detain people since whatever the year was when Obama signed the NDAA into law.

Our democracy was stolen long ago.

TheObviousSolution ,

People are powerless and the cash flow is working against the ones aware of it.

BigBrainBrett2517 ,

Dayyyym that's a good quote, friend. Props and ups to you.

mellowheat ,

Yeah, fascism is growing, which is not good. Another thing that is not good is that the growing counterforce to fascism seems to be almost the exact same as it was in early 1900s, i.e. somewhat radical (practically fascistic) leftism.

Why try the same remedy again when it failed the last time?

Rozauhtuno , (edited )
@Rozauhtuno@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Fellas, is it fa to be antifa?

I don't know how is it like in your internet bubble, but in the real world tankies are not the majority in antifa spaces.

mellowheat ,

I'm glad to hear that. Being on Lemmy skews my view of the situation as well, I guess.

And no, I don't think Antifa is fascistic. Counterproductive sometimes perhaps, but not fascist.

whereisk ,

Go on, tell us how many elections away to obtaining absolute and permanent power the authoritarian left is - in a way that its troops will be roaming the streets rounding up undesirables.

mellowheat ,

About as far as the authoritarian right is, I'm guessing.

xor ,

yeah ok, with your <1 day old account...

mellowheat , (edited )

Yeah, I can see how that doesn't make my comments more trustworthy. Sorry about that. I delete my account once in a while to get a vacation from Lemmy. Then come back when I get the urge to challenge my worldview.

This place is perfect for that.

xor ,

you mean: troll other people's worldviews?

some people don't find baseless arguments entertaining... but there are "debate x" subs if you really want that...

mellowheat ,

you mean: troll other people’s worldviews?

No, I don't.

Cowbee ,

Radical leftism is a good thing, and isn't fascist, nor is it anywhere close to power. When was the last time the US had a leftist president? When was the last time it had a fascist president? Case closed.

Stop treating the left like a boogeyman, this is Enlightened Centrist nonsense.

atthecoast ,

You can start by addressing the concerns of the (growing, albeit not yet majority of) people. Things like voicing concerns on automation, cost of living and immigration can’t be ignored and called “fascist” or “racist” to make them go away. You can’t shame people with real worries into quieting down.

Governments, at least here in the Netherlands, have worked on globalist ideas while ignoring their populace, this is now coming back to bite them.

mrmanager ,
@mrmanager@lemmy.today avatar

Sweden is pretty much destroyed by globalists already.

SparrowRanjitScaur ,

What's wrong with globalism?

smooth_tea ,

Everything is becoming decentralized because it offers a fairer, more level playing field. Except in governance, where things move towards a consolidation of power under the guise of unity and progress with the net result being that the voice of the person becomes a distant cry.

Cowbee ,

Having a larger base horizontally doesn't imply a higher vertical peak.

lolcatnip ,

I can hear that dog whistle from the other side of the planet.

SparrowRanjitScaur ,

What's wrong with automation?

bizzle ,
@bizzle@lemmy.world avatar

I'm a union auto worker and let me tell you, I'm more scared of automation taking my job with no social safety net than I am of industrial accidents.

smooth_tea ,

And what's the alternative? Stopping progress and keeping menial jobs on life support just to pay people a wage is ludicrous. Automation has been replacing jobs since watermills and oxen, it is a form of liberation. The current rate will probably cause a lot of upheaval yes, but it's a necessary evil.

Powerpoint ,

You missed the part of a social safety net. Many countries that have one have it barely functioning thanks to decades upon decades of cuts and then you have the USA which is practically third world.

smooth_tea ,

I did not. That's what I alluded to in my last sentence. But I believe the bigger picture is more important and that automation is a step towards getting out of consumerism, exponential growth and job creation just to keep the bar moving, which all ties in to why we're in this situation in the first place. It allows us to reevaluate what's important in life.

bizzle ,
@bizzle@lemmy.world avatar

Great so you're going to feed my kids and pay my mortgage then? What a tone deaf, braindead, out of touch response.

lolcatnip ,

Disruption is a necessary evil. Letting the cost fall on the people whose jobs are eliminated is a choice our leaders make.

Int_not_found ,

Wants that the concerns of people are taken seriously, but uses alt right dogwhistles like 'immigration is a problem' & 'globalist are destroying this country'.
Both are absolut non-problems of the common folk, but are used in line with real problems, like rising cost of living.

You, sir, are a clown.

Vrtrx ,

Yeah thats a problem I frequently see. People arguing that we should solve "the problems" and then naming things that fascists made up and actually aren't real problems. How does one solve a problem that doesn't exist but people have been made to think it exists by lying fascists? Telling them that what the fascists say is a lie won't help either cause they are not willing to accept other opinions

cows_are_underrated ,

And that's what's called populism

bouh ,

It's not concerns, it's fear. The problems are not automation or immigration. The problem is empoverishment.

People fear about automation and immigration because they're sold the idea that they must work or die, but there isn't work for everyone. The liberals love this idea because it enslaves people to their work. Fascists love these ideas because it gives them an enemy to fight for a culture war.

And here you have an alliance of fascists and liberals. Exactly like in the 30s.

interdimensionalmeme ,

I urge you to touch grass

mellowheat ,

This. Being engorged in a bubble can skew one's world view pretty badly.

For instance, if you're only in Lemmy, you might indeed start to think that the world is going to a nazi hell again and the only way to fix that is a communist revolution, comrades. Or if you're in Twitter, you might start to think that the woke mobsters are ruining the west, or whatever.

If you're on tiktok or youtube, you'll get the bubble you taught those things to be.

The center is probably still holding, and normal people in normal life are being normal.

xor ,

or what if, now hear me out, what if: some people look beyond their bubble, are highly skeptical of the media, and research stories from multiple angles???
it it conceivable that someone could possibly be aware of the filter bubble effect, and they try to pop it?
we are definitely descending into fascism...
while many people are fighting it, we are getting scarily closer on many fronts...
...
this should be terrifying because if they do get fully into power, first thing they'll do is round up people like us

Powerpoint ,

You just have to step outside of your bubble to look at the world stepping into fascism. Putting your head in the sand or throwing your hands in the air isn't going to help.

lolcatnip ,

What makes you so confident you're not the one in a bubble?

mellowheat ,

I'm confident that I am in a bubble and that I'm not fully aware what kind of a bubble it is.

lolcatnip ,

Well, that's more than I was expecting. Might I suggest you look around for signs that fascism (or at the very least, authoritarianism) is on the rise in many democratic countries? Some countries to look at are the US, Germany, Italy, Hungary, Turkey, India, and Israel.

mellowheat , (edited )

Sure, some of those are obvious, like Turkey and Hungary. They've been on that path for several decades now. Some people in Turkey tried to fix the situation with a failed coup, which made things even worse of course.

I have to note that sometimes the pendulum still swings the other way. For instance, just a year ago, we (Finland) had the most left liberal government we've ever had before swinging to the current one -- which in turn is the most rightist government we've had in 50+ years. Poland just turned back from a rather conservative path that they had followed for quite long to a more liberal one.

India, Italy and Germany I don't know that much about. Germany also is currently on a rather liberal government, but the next one will probably be more conservative. The recent change seems to stem from Russia's war in Ukraine, that made everyone more conservative and militaristic out of fear. When the war ends (it should at some point, somehow), I believe/hope the fear can dissipate. Depends a lot on how it ends and if the risk of Russian invasion lingers.

Israel's government is pretty unpopular in Israel. They might very well vote a very different kind in the next elections, unless Netanjahu can somehow pull a win in Gaza.

Then there's the population crisis, coming from the boomer generation. People are old. That makes the political and economic situations worse, which in turn makes everything worse. In history, the left has usually been able to capitalize on such misery, but for some reason I don't quite understand the populist right has been snatching the sentiment.

And then there's Russia, possibly the most fascistic country on this side of the planet, directly funding and supporting the rise of fascism in Europe. There's a possible silver lining here too if Russia loses its war: a weakened Russia could mean weakened fascism everywhere.

interdimensionalmeme ,

By seeing the sun shine and the birds tweet, real actual tweeting. Not sniffing Elon Musk's farts.

lolcatnip ,

By pretending nothing exists beyond your immediate surroundings, in other words.

I don't know wtf you think Elon Musk has to do with anything.

lolcatnip ,

I urge you to quit responding with insulting cliches to people with legitimate concerns. You'd have been saying the same shit to Germans in 1938 who were worried about fascism.

interdimensionalmeme ,

It's precisely the people hypnotized by social movements that lost their anchors and drifted into LaLa-land that became the Nazi, not the grass touchers who maintained contact with reality.

If you're insulted by the idea of touching grass, which means going outside, talking to real normal people in real life and taking stock of the world as it actually is rather than as you see it through your doom-rectangle.

Then, all I can see is that you need to leave behind Xwitter and touch actual, factual grass.

lolcatnip ,

Unlike you, I chose to be aware of things outside of my immediate surroundings.

And I never used Twitter.

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