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Reminder: The DMV uses photos for facial recognition

This is half a decade old news, but I only found this out myself after it accidentally came up in conversation at the DMV. The worker would not have informed me if it hadn't come into conversation. Every DMV photo in the United States is being used for AI facial recognition, and nobody has talked about it for years. This is especially concerning given that citizens are recently being required to update their ID to a "Real ID," which means more people than ever before are giving away the rights to their own face.

The biggest problem with privacy issues is that people talk about it for a while, but more often than not nothing ever happens to fix the problem, it simply gets forgotten. For example, in the next few years Copilot will simply become a part of people's lives, and people will slowly stop talking about the privacy implications. What can we even do to fight the privacy practices of giants?

Bryanbat ,

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pineapplelover ,

I kind of mentally prepared for it when I got my ID. Not only that but they also fingerprint your right thumb.

PraiseTheSoup ,

Just renewed my ID on Friday and I went for the Real ID. No fingerprinting. So it must differ by state.

pineapplelover ,

Interesting. I'm in California

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

What can we even do to fight the privacy practices of giants?

Not much unless you're a billionaire or a politician.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

I don't think Billionaires even get an exception. It actually might be worse for them in some ways.

krolden ,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

What? They can just buy a private island

odigo2020 ,

Or lobby so their private planes are untrackable.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

I meant that they hold the resources and the influence necessary to change society.

pineapplelover ,

Donate to eff, aclu, and other privacy organizations.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

I mean it's not nothing but it's close

pineapplelover ,

It's better than not doing anything.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

I'm not sure it is. Feels like a waste of money. People don't care. Politicians don't care. In fact they greatly benefit from the erosion of privacy.

pineapplelover ,

ACLU has done a lot of good. For instance, their lawyers have fought to not give up Signal users' information in court cases.

https://signal.org/bigbrother/

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

ACLU has done a lot of good

I don't doubt it, but at the end of the day it's a drop in the bucket vs. the wide variety of increasingly exploitative platforms that people continue to use.

The government doesn't even need surveillance, they just demand it from corporations with data that users knowingly and willingly volunteer to them, to the extent that you can't even participate in society without subjecting yourself to those same invasive and exploitative platforms.

their lawyers have fought to not give up Signal users' information

What information? How can they give information they don't have?

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

They're literally lobbiests and have a track record of forcing the government to make great changes for the people

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

They're literally lobbiests

Huh?

have a track record of forcing the government to make great changes

And yet here we are...constantly sliding downhill, regardless...

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

The EFF and ACLU employ a number of people, and some of those people exist to lobby the government to not make dumb laws.

Politicians don't understand technology, so they need lobbiests to explain to them how legislation could be bad for people from a technical perspective

When you fund the EFF, you get lobbiests on your behalf going to legislators to fix broken legislation. And lobbyists going to legislators to write good legislation to protect our rights.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

I'm very aware of all of this, and none of it contradicts my statement.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

I was answering your question: Huh?

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Please tell me something I don't already know.

fiercekitten ,

Or you’re willing to immolate a billionaire or a politician, as long as it’s a sincerely held religious belief.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

You're going to set them on fire?

fiercekitten , (edited )

Abso-fucking-lutely. I mean, no, not me personally.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Ok well I wouldn't really recommend saying as much on the internet...

fiercekitten ,

Good point, let me fix that.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Nailed it.

veniasilente ,

How about a guillotine? Those don't seem to require a religious belief, only a modicum of trust in the well-studied force of gravity.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Vote pirate party

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

yarr

weariedfae ,

Jokes on them, they made me take off my glasses that hide aspects of my wonky face but I wear glasses 100% of the time out in the world. You'll never catch me, copper!

(I know. I just like to think it can't figure out crooked nose vs glasses. )

krolden ,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

Paint your face in weird shapes and colors and tell them its a tattoo.

Steamymoomilk ,
@Steamymoomilk@sh.itjust.works avatar

Qr code to rickroll tattoo

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Better yet, just get a tattoo of weird shapes on your face
Give yourself a third eye and a sideways mouth.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Perhaps henna

rc_buggy ,

nobody has talked about it for years

March 2024: https://www.9news.com/article/news/investigations/police-use-colorado-dmv-facial-recognition-program/73-0c2d862c-a33c-4598-bc0a-e0d1a8ee287f

There are rumblings here in CO about curtailing law enforcement's use of this database. I personally would like to have subpoena protection of the database, so at least it has to go before a judge before the cops just rifle through everyone's pictures.

This is especially concerning given that citizens are recently being required to update their ID to a “Real ID,” which means more people than ever before are giving away the rights to their own face.

lol, no. Real ID is just a set of requirements the federal govt. has implemented to make sure state IDs are held to the same standard as passports re: data integrity and information presented. That's all. Not mark of the beast, not something nefarious to track you more than your old state-issued DL did in the past. As far as "recently"? Nope, states have had 20 years.

doom_and_gloom , (edited )
@doom_and_gloom@lemmy.ml avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    AtariDump ,

    http://archive.today/P0SSe

    tarix29 ,

    They also contract a company that trains facial recognition AI on social media. I think the Real ID is the least if most people's worries

    davel ,
    @davel@lemmy.ml avatar

    This is especially concerning given that citizens […]

    Not everyone with a US driver’s license is a US citizen.

    Charger8232 OP ,

    Correct, however this issue primary affects US citizens, given that driver's licenses aren't the only ID the DMV takes pictures for (e.g. the aforementioned Real ID)

    scytale ,

    Non-citizens also use driver’s licenses and state IDs with Real ID. It’s standard regardless of citizenship.

    PrincessLeiasCat ,

    9/11 enabled so much of this to be fast-tracked. Thanks, Patriot Act.

    zelifcam ,
    @zelifcam@lemmy.world avatar

    George W. Bush signs the Patriot Act - 2001

    Broken ,

    Have you read Means of Control (Byron Tau)?
    He tracks the evolution of all of this and how we got to where we are today. Yes, 9/11 fast-tracked it but there's so much more to it. Highly recommended.

    PrincessLeiasCat ,

    Thanks for the rec, I have not read it. It sounds like something I would enjoy, so I’ll check it out!

    _______ ,

    Every DMV photo in the United States is being used for AI facial recognition

    I'm glad I don't have a US driving license then.

    in the next few years Copilot will simply become a part of people’s lives

    Only those who don't care about privacy and use Windows.

    FaceDeer ,
    @FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

    Only those who don't care about privacy and use Windows.

    So most people, then.

    huginn ,

    Do you have a passport?

    BaroqueInMind ,

    Yeah, that dumbass doesn't realize the EU has been using passport photos to allow Interpol to build a database since back in 2010.

    huginn ,

    Not just Europe either. 172 countries use NFC passports, all of which have your full biometric info (including a high res headshot) encoded onto the chip.

    If you've ever had a passport your face is known to the government of your country and searchable in a database.

    krolden ,
    @krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

    I see no issue with the government using photo ID pictures this way, just as long as they aren't using third parties to handle the technical aspect of it or allowing any of the data to be handled by any third parties (eg private corps). They would be stupid to ignore that large amount of known good data they could train their facial rec models on. Yes it sounds big and evil but that's the world we live in as long as this technology exists and you want to participate in society, I guess.

    They're collecting the data already, it's being used this way already by everyone else, so why not?

    Charger8232 OP , (edited )

    Many people's threat models, like my own, are against mass surveillance. This falls under that category, even if it's being handled responsibly. The issue is people have no way to opt out, and there is a lack of transparency about the use of facial recognition.

    krolden , (edited )
    @krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

    You can be against it all you want but that doesn't mean it's going to matter IRL. The state of the world is that anyone with a large amount of data like this is using it to build models so they can profit and/or enforce. Even if they say they're not doing it, they're still doing it. Or someone with access to that data is doing it.

    Crying about the feds/DMV doing facial rec training is low hanging fruit. Obviously they're going to be doing it along with every other government on the planet with the resources to do it. TBH there's nothing inherently malicious about it, since them having the data they're using is part of you having citizenship/identification in that country. The real malicious ones are the corporations contracted by said government to do the exact same thing except they're doing their own data collection through huge networks of privately owned security cameras.

    The only way to avoid this is to go live in the woods and never come out. Any show of transparency or opting out of any of this would just be theater for you. It's being done, has been done, and will be done without your consent or knowledge.

    natecox ,
    @natecox@programming.dev avatar

    This attitude is what lets the government and big tech get away with so much bullshit.

    “Well it’s happening already so crying about it isn’t going to change anything because you know that protest has never ever been effective even once ever and I kinda like the taste of boot anyways so what’s the big deal?”

    krolden ,
    @krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yes, blame me for the sorry state of the world. It's all my fault and the fault of people like me.

    I wish.

    natecox ,
    @natecox@programming.dev avatar

    I’m not blaming you for the state of the world, I’m blaming you for taking your fatalist nonsense and using it to try to bring down others with you.

    krolden ,
    @krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

    I'm not trying to bring anyone down I'm just trying to show them their efforts will most likely be futile in the end

    Pilgrim ,

    "I'm not trying to bring anyone down, I'm just trying to bring them down"

    krolden ,
    @krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

    If the truth brings you down, thats on you.

    Charger8232 OP ,

    Just because mass surveillance is already happening doesn't mean we should accept it as our only option. While it's true that governments and corporations are collecting data on us, there is still merit in pushing back against these practices. The point of privacy is not to hide everything and live in the woods, the point of privacy is to have control over what data you share, when you share it, and with whom you share it with. The problem isn't facial recognition itself, the problem is living in the woods shouldn't be the only way to avoid it. We should be able to opt out. What may seem fine to you is not always fine with others. That's why threat models exist, after all.

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