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Landsharkgun ,

Stop. Using. Cars.

TypicalHog ,

I swear some people in this thread would call airplane autopilot bad cause it causes SOME death from time to time.

MedicPigBabySaver ,
@MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world avatar

Moron.

letsgo ,

OK.

Question: how do you propose I get to work? It's 15 miles, there are no trains, the buses are far too convoluted and take about 2 hours each way (no I'm not kidding), and "move house" is obviously going to take too long ("hey boss, some rando on the internet said "stop using cars" so do you mind if I take indefinite leave to sell my house and buy a closer one?").

dual_sport_dork ,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Buy a motorcycle. Not technically a car!

letsgo ,

I already have (Yamaha MT10), but presumably that has the same problem that cars do (burning fossil fuels); also it's no good in shit weather (yeah I know that means I need better clothing).

zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

There should be viable mass transit. This is a systemic problem.

letsgo ,

Sure, but the challenge was "Don't use cars", not "Don't use cars where there is viable mass transit in place".

Betide ,

The same people who are upset over self driving cars are the ones who scream at the self checkout that they shouldn't have to scan their own groceries because the store isn't paying them.

32% of all traffic crash fatalities in the United States involve drunk drivers.

I can't wait until the day that this kind of technology is required by law I'm tired of sharing the road with these idiots and I absolutely trust self driving vehicles more than I trust other humans.

MedicPigBabySaver ,
@MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world avatar

Bootlicker Musk butt lover.

kat_angstrom ,

I've never heard of anyone screaming because they had to scan their own groceries at a self-checkout. Is this a common thing?

Fridgeratr ,

No. No idea what they're talking about. If someone really feels that way, there are usually other aisles with people that can scan the groceries.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

people who are upset over self driving cars

If you are talking about Teslas, you can't be upset about something a car doesn't actually do unless you think it's actually capable of doing it.

The only thing I don't like is that Tesla is able to claim it has a "full self driving" mode which is not full self driving. Seems like false advertising to me.

EvolvedTurtle ,

I recently learned that at least half of the drivers where I live thing it's fine to cut me off while we are going 70mph on the highway with no signal

Toes ,
@Toes@ani.social avatar

This is speculation, but were most of them from people who disabled the safety features?

machinin ,

Probably not

AmbiguousProps ,

No, I doubt most people care enough to disable them.

Toes , (edited )
@Toes@ani.social avatar

I heard it's fairly common for people to disarm the feature that requires you to hold the wheel.

Edit: it would be nice if someone explained why I'm being downvoted lol

NotMyOldRedditName ,

Anything remotely supportive of Tesla on lemmy usually results in massive downvotes.

You've angered the hive mind by suggesting people are actively trying to bypass teslas saftey system so they can be idiots thus making it not wholly Teslas fault.

And yes, many people are actively using bypass devices, but not all.

Toes ,
@Toes@ani.social avatar

Yeah that's kinda what I figured. Thanks

NotMyOldRedditName ,

You don't have to disable it to beat the safety system.

They were all pretty much due to inattentiveness, though. Many were drunk drivers.

Many do use defeat devices as well, but not all.

This was all brand new when it first came out and we didn't really have proper regulations for it. Things have gotten more restrictive, but people do still find ways around it and there's no fool proof solution to this as humans are smart and will find ways around things.

root ,

There are some real Elon haters out there. I think they're ugly as sin but I'm happy to see more people driving vehicles with all the crazy safety features, even if they aren't perfect.

You're in control of a massive vehicle capable of killing people and destroying property, you're responsible for it.

machinin , (edited )

You're in control of a massive vehicle capable of killing people and destroying property, you're responsible for it.

If only Elon would say something similar when he re-tweets a video of people having sex while the car is on autopilot. Can you guess what he actually said?

brbposting ,

Moran

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/ac40a320-bdd3-4c39-a4d9-04b5e98a2e93.jpeg

Thorny_Insight ,

I'm quite certain that there will be some humble pie served to the haters in not too distant future. The performance of FSD 12.3.5 is all the proof you need that an actual robotaxi is just around the corner. Disagree with me all you want. All we need to do is wait and see.

However I'm also sure that the cognitive dissonance is going to be so strong for many of these people that even a mountain of evidence is not going to change their mind about it because it's not based in reason in the first place but emotions.

machinin , (edited )

What makes this time any different from the dozens of other times musk had said we're six months away from FSD? When do you think Tesla will take responsibility for accidents that happen while using their software?

If they do that in the next year, I'll gladly eat humble pie. If they can't, will you?

NutWrench ,
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

"self-driving cars" are not going to be a thing within our lifetimes. It's a problem that requires MUCH smarter AIs than we currently have.

Martineski ,

To say that FSD won't be a thing in next ~70-90 years is insane to me. Lol

NarrativeBear ,

Some of us are 30-45 and not 6-16

Martineski ,

He said "within our lifetimes" so it only makes sense that I assumed that he's talking about currently living generations and not himself or a specific generation. :p

bitwolf ,

I just read on LinkedIn a post from a Tesla engineer laid off.

He said "I checked my email while auto piloting to work".

The employees know more than anyone its capabilities and they still take the same stupid risk.

n3m37h ,

Just like fight club, they're imagining them crashing into every transport they come close to

Socsa ,

I guess we should ban autopilot so we can go back to nobody having accidents in cars.

mojofrododojo ,

So we should let musk endanger people needlessly for tesla's profits?

a human driver isn't 100% but you can at least hold the human liable for their mistakes. Is Musk going to be liable for the accidents this causes?

Because that's the human left in the loop, the fool self drive champion.

antlion ,
@antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

These are spanning from the earliest adopters, up until August of last year. Plenty of idiots using a cruise control system and trusting their lives to beta software. Not the same as the current FSD software.

Your own car insurance isn’t based on your driving skill when you had your learners permit. When Tesla takes on the liability and insurance for CyberCab, you’ll know it’s much safer than human drivers.

Hegar ,
@Hegar@kbin.social avatar

Plenty of idiots using a cruise control system and trusting their lives to beta software.

Using it exactly as it was marketed doesn't make you an idiot.

halcyoncmdr ,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

You really want to get into reality versus marketing in this world? Very little marketing actually shows real world products and use cases in a real world environment. Heck, advertising often doesn't even show the actual product at all.

Your McDonald's burger is NEVER going to look like the marketing photo. You don't want to get anywhere near that "ice cream" or "milkshake" from the ad either, mashed potatoes and glue are often used for those advertising replacements.

This doesn't even get into things like disclaimers and product warnings, or people ignoring them.

Thorny_Insight ,

The car prompts you every single time you enable this system to keep your eyes on the road and be prepaired to take over at any moment.

machinin , (edited )

That's the fine print. He's talking about the marketing - the influencer videos, Musk's tweets of those videos, Tesla's own marketing videos, etc.

machinin ,

But Tesla had a video in 2016 saying that people were only in the driver seat for legal reasons. Musk even said it was only an issue with regulators.

Oh, who to believe!

Notice, when talking about new features, Tesla shills love to promote how great it is and how often it saves then from problems (I can't imagine how badly they must drive. We intervened on our grandmother after a couple of close calls). Then, when there is news about these accidents, they are so quick to blame the driver.

Also, all these problems are with the old versions, the new versions clean up everything.

I do agree with OP here about one thing - don't take anything Tesla and Musk say about the cars' capabilities seriously (including how that might impact stock price) until Tesla is willing to take financial responsibility for accidents. Until then, it's all Musk bullshit.

ReveredOxygen ,
@ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

Great. Let me know when Tesla takes on the liability and insurance for CyberCab

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

In March 2023, a North Carolina student was stepping off a school bus when he was struck by a Tesla Model Y traveling at “highway speeds,” according to a federal investigation that published today.

The Tesla driver was using Autopilot, the automaker’s advanced driver-assist feature that Elon Musk insists will eventually lead to fully autonomous cars.

NHTSA was prompted to launch its investigation after several incidents of Tesla drivers crashing into stationary emergency vehicles parked on the side of the road.

Most of these incidents took place after dark, with the software ignoring scene control measures, including warning lights, flares, cones, and an illuminated arrow board.

Tesla issued a voluntary recall late last year in response to the investigation, pushing out an over-the-air software update to add more warnings to Autopilot.

The findings cut against Musk’s insistence that Tesla is an artificial intelligence company that is on the cusp of releasing a fully autonomous vehicle for personal use.

The original article contains 788 words, the summary contains 158 words. Saved 80%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

ForgotAboutDre ,

Cameras and AI aren't a match for radar/lidar. This is the big issue with the approach to autonomy Tesla's take. You've only a guess if there are hazards in the way.

Most algorithms are designed to work and then be statistically tested. To validate that they work. When you develop an algorithm with AI/machine learning, there is only the statistical step. You have to infer whole systems performance purely from that. There isn't a separate process for verification and validation. It just validation alone.

When something is developed with only statistical evidence of it working you can't be reliably sure it works in most scenarios. Except the exact ones you tested for. When you design an algorithm to work you can assume it works in most scenarios if the result are as expected when you validate it. With machine learning, the algorithm is obscured and uncertain (unless it's only used for parameter optimisation).

Machine learning is never used because it's a better approach. It's only used when the engineers don't know how to develop the algorithm. Once you understand this, you understand the hazard it presents. If you don't understand or refuse to understand this. You build machines that drive into children, deliberately. Through ignorance, greed and arrogance Tesla built a machine that deliberately runs over children.

kikutwo ,

This just breaking, cars linked to thousands of crashes and deaths.

NarrativeBear ,

Cars linked to hundreds of crashes, dozens of deaths.

EmperorHenry ,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

and the pedestrian-emergency-break on tesla cars, and many other cars with that feature will malfunction sometimes causing people behind you to rear-end you.

TimeNaan ,

Yeah but that's usually the fault of the driver behind you. They're too close, should've left more distance for emergency braking.

werefreeatlast ,

It's just a dozen! You know how many people COVID took? And everyone wanted COVID! ...it spreads of the air? Where's my fabric non filtering 😷 mask with added holes baby!? So you know...how cool would it be if you're riding a ordinary car and someone else is driving it into a wall or semi, except it's actually not a sentient being but an algorithm? It would be pretty cool right?

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