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kevin ,

We have seen this game 100 times. Opt in for now and then turned on for everyone 6-12 months later. It's just a temporary move to handle the bad PR.

Gormadt ,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

You forgot the best part

Silently turned on via "security" update

Ozonowsky ,
@Ozonowsky@lemmy.world avatar

It's a security update because it adds new security vulnerabilities.

bobs_monkey ,

Same as it ever was

WhoIsRich ,
@WhoIsRich@lemmy.world avatar

Or the other trick of constantly prompting "Turn on / Maybe Later" until people either accidentally accept or just give up to make nagging stop.

DarkDarkHouse ,
@DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

That guy at the club who won’t fuck off

merthyr1831 ,

registry switch that'll mysteriously reset itself. we've had this shit with countless windows configurations at work that our IT guy has to battle with on the regular.

conciselyverbose ,

I've had so many people jump down my throat for listing some of the many obviously fucked things Microsoft did on my PC just over the life of Windows 10. (And not that it should matter, but I even paid for Pro).

I turned all their various advertising and spying "features" off through legitimate settings, group policies, whatever, and the list of things that reverted themselves over time was insane.

ouRKaoS ,

User: Goes through 15 step process to turn off unwanted "feature".

Windows: I turned this on, in case it got turned off accidentally. I'll do this every reboot.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

And not that it should matter, but I even paid for Pro

It should matter though. If MS wants to give away Windows for free, then users should expect compromised privacy. But it's not. They charge hundreds for it.

If Windows made a paid version that was private and secure, and that the user was in control of, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

conciselyverbose ,

If they were giving away Windows for free, their behavior would still be unforgivable.

There is no scenario where any operating system including spyware or ads can ever theoretically be acceptable behavior. Any person who contributes in any way to that happening belongs in a prison cell.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Well that's the only way a "free" product is sustainable.

conciselyverbose ,

Linux is free qnd plenty sustainable.

If you can't support providing something for free via a mechanism that isn't pure and unadulterated evil, then don't do it for free. "We have to be monsters to make money" is not a valid position.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Linux is free qnd plenty sustainable.

It also has a vast array of enormous compromises, which is why no one uses it.

arf ,

I understand you have qualms with Linux, and that's plenty fine, but when the large majority of servers and smartphones around the world run it, you can't say that no one uses it.

conciselyverbose ,

That's not true at all. It has a huge market share, just not in desktops.

But again, that's completely and utterly irrelevant. If being evil is the only way for your business/product to exist, it does not deserve to exist.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Yeah dude, there's nothing they can do to fix this. They have eroded the trust of their users for decades. It will take them decades to get it back, if they actually tried.

Also it took hackers days to find vulnerabilities. Which is a massive security concern.

arf ,

Can anyone give me examples of times Windows has done this in the past? I mean, I feel like this is true, but I legit can't think of anything that matches this.

odelik ,

In the last 6 months:

  • One Drive reinstalled and turned back on on my personal & work computer multiple times.
  • AI Co-pilot added to my machine and enabled "so you can start using it now!" with an obtrusive pinned shortcut on my start bar, to both of the same machines but at different time intervals. Uninstalling is virtually impossible and requires registry mods to 'remove" it. Not even a powers he'll command can remove it.

I don't want, or need, this add-on garbage.

arf ,

Perfect examples, thank you 👌

gnuplusmatt ,

Opt-in does not matter, if I message or email someone who has it on, my personal data has been collected without my knowledge or consent.

This shouldnt have been built in the first place, it's irresponsible

helpImTrappedOnline , (edited )

This raises an excellent point not considered. This goes for all texts as well if the other person uses the "your phone" app. Discord, matrix, signal, telegram etc are all compromised by this existing on a system.

Will my browser's "private mode" be respected or it is going to store every inappropriate thing I search?

Are password managers safe? How about bank security questions? How often are those actaully obfuscated. The last 4 digits of social security numbers are usually unobfuscated, which is also what a lot of intuitions (stupidly) use to verify your ID over the phone. What if I want to look at the PDF of my tax documents?

What if my HR manager has this enabled and starts viewing PDFs containing private information about employees, payroll data, finances and whatever else is sellable on the dark web.

How about govermnet data? Sure maybe the pentagon IT staff will completely block it, but what about local gov committee ABC that's collecting voter information?

That type of data is valuable enough that it will be targeted regardless of what protection MS attempts. Based on the fact they didnt bother encytping the data from the start, my faith is low.

The implications of this are insane.

squirrelwithnut ,

That's true of any malware on your contact's computer or an unsecure server, though. That is not specific or novel to this feature.

(I'm not saying I like this feature, or think it's a good idea. I don't, and it's not)

ober9000 ,

So what you are saying is, is that it's malware. I agree.

circuscritic , (edited )

I maintain one baremetal Windows install that gets fairly regular use. It's on a major OEM business class workstation with a legit Windows 10 pro license.

Recently, I had to wipe and reset and goddamn do they try and trick you into choosing all the worst spyware settings AND even if you successfully duck and weave past them, they'll just cheat and enable them, or reinstall shit like co-pilot during an update.

They just made me sign into that shitty M365 app to install a legit subscription of Office, and on the next reboot, it converted the local user account into an online user account.

Make no mistake, Recall is going to be enabled by hook, or by crook, for the vast majority of Windows 11 users in due time. No matter how many times they disable it, or opt out.

RustyShackleford ,
@RustyShackleford@literature.cafe avatar

Yup. We’re back to the old days where Microsoft didn’t give a damn and enabled things by default.

It’ll take less than a decade before they get sued, yet again. By then, the penalty will be <5% of what they’ve made, but the merry go round will circle back and start all over.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

"we will change nothing but announce it like we did"

A_Very_Big_Fan ,

Why the hell wasn't it opt-in from the beginning?

Stanley_Pain ,
@Stanley_Pain@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I like daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaata

-- Microsoft

random_character_a ,
@random_character_a@lemmy.world avatar

It'll be opt-in, till it isn't.

conciselyverbose ,

For the same reason it used an unprotected DB. Because they don't give a shit about your privacy or security.

fah_Q ,

How about you promise to remove your build in spyware?

bobs_monkey ,

Musnt anger the shareholders

Retro_unlimited ,

Too late Microsoft, I jumped into the Linux pool and the water is fine.

ElvenMithril ,

Exactly. Running fedora desktop and I am thinking why the move does.not do more poeple. The only Microsoft junk I am using is the corporation laptop and that I am sure wont get this function.

Evilcoleslaw ,

I don't even care if it's opt-in. I don't want dormant malware on my PC either.

To be clear. I actually like Windows 11. I don't care about the general telemetry, though I disabled the typing data crap. Most of the things in the last few months about ads in Windows, about blocking apps, etc have been overblown and aren't actually big problems in isolation. Even this is a little overblown right now as it requires an NPU which the vast majority of systems don't have. But, this is just so tone-deaf and an obviously terrible idea that it needs to be put down hard.

Rolando ,

Yeah, they're so focused on screwing me over that I'm worried eventually I'll miss something.

willington ,

I don't want *dormant* malware on my PC either.

"Why not?"

--Micro$oft, probably

illi ,

as it requires an NPU which the vast majority of systems don't have

Don't have at the time. I agree with you but argument that it's not an issue for many people right now will bite the majority eventually

conciselyverbose ,

Most of the things in the last few months about ads in Windows, about blocking apps, etc have been overblown and aren't actually big problems in isolation.

Any telemetry sent without a very clearly informed opt in is malicious. Any ad in an OS is malicious. There is no valid justification for either.

chemicalwonka ,
@chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

opt-in until next update when it will be enabled "magically"

xavier666 ,
@xavier666@lemm.ee avatar

Let me tell exactly what will happen.

  • Step 1 - It's opt-in. Everyone chill
  • Step 2 - It's opt-in but the opt-in button is advertised during startup
  • Step 3 - "opting in in crucial for your safety and comfort" advertised everytime during startup
  • Step 4 - it's opt-out now but it can be turned off in settings
  • Step 5 - it's opt-out but the off button is hidden below 3 layers
  • Step 6 - the opt-out button is gone but can be turned off with a registry edit
  • Step 7 - sorry, it's a core component of W11

We are currently at Step 1

This comment is taken from another lemmy post but I forgot the username. Apologies.

iAvicenna ,
@iAvicenna@lemmy.world avatar

If you don't opt in you will miss essential security updates and you will become a terrorist

iAvicenna ,
@iAvicenna@lemmy.world avatar

I mean even if it is not mandatory but automatically enabled once, odds are %80 of the users won't even bother turning it off so win for windows in any case

yggstyle ,

As a reminder this was the go-to play for Facebook when they were caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Default it off until nobody's looking and change it slightly so it was named 'differently' and on it went again.

Snapz ,

They'll always play right on or just over the line to see when/how people push back. They knew what they were doing, they started at a 9 intentionally so that people push back to and live with a 7

kellenoffdagrid ,
@kellenoffdagrid@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

MS really has always done this, what's the name for this kind of marketing maneuver? Manufactured consent? Manufactured begrudging tolerance?

whataloadofwhat ,

Door in the face

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique

Valmond ,

Like politics, were adding 200% to this inconvenience!

Then rolling back to "only" 50% (the initial target).

thelasttoot ,

I mean... Yeah? That's kind of the point isn't it? Test the waters and figure out just how far they can push it? Find the limit of acceptance and ride that?

NutWrench ,
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

How do you "fix" the security issues of a program that is literally designed to spy on you?

I've just switched to Linux Mint and I'm not ever coming back. That's how I "fixed it."

SomeGuy69 ,

Opt-in but you get an annoying full screen popup every boot, like for the windows11 upgrade. It's only a matter of time, til they sell AI recall features as Win12 and then beg you to upgrade for free, pretty please!

Treczoks ,

Or "(totally unrelated feature) is not available unless you activate AI recall. Click here to activate."

Prandom_returns ,

"Click cancel if you do not want to not activate it"

bokherif ,

It feels like these huge ass companies are just testing people's reactions before they do something these days.

MehBlah , (edited )

There is no way I'm going to use a machine where they can turn on something remotely through a update or some other fashion. I probably won't even have a 11 vm at home now. I'll keep the 10 vm for its minor uses until it can no longer do the few things I use it for but that is it for me. Remove that garbage or lose more of us macroshaft.

BombOmOm , (edited )
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

It boggles the mind this isn't an external download you have to specifically navigate to their website to download and install. The fact it is soon to be on Win 11 systems, just a toggle away, is terrifying. Particularly since lots of people handle your personal data, while data collectors like this are on their machines (and many of those machines will have the collector turned on).

RustyShackleford ,
@RustyShackleford@literature.cafe avatar

I wish, now have a i9-14900KF, so guessing no more Windows 10 anymore. Planning to make a Linux partition, but frustrating the way that Windows tries so adamantly to take boot priority.

vikingtons ,
@vikingtons@lemmy.world avatar

I'd recommend separate physical disks if possible. Set your boot order via uefi

RustyShackleford ,
@RustyShackleford@literature.cafe avatar

Thanks. I’ve personally never altered boot order before, but it can’t be too complicated, right?

vikingtons ,
@vikingtons@lemmy.world avatar

It's not very intuitive but it isn't so bad once you're familiar; you can take a look at this whenever's convenient for you.

When you boot the system, you should briefly see your BIOS splash screen, along with the key combo to get into your BIOS setup menu. Let us know which mainboard vendor you have and we may be able to tell you in advance (For Asus, it's usually F2, for Gigabyte its the Delete key, for MSI it might be F12 etc). I just mash the specified key when prompted until I'm in.

There's usually also a key that you can hit to select a temporary boot device (I.e. I can hit F12 on my gigabyte board to select any OS detected by the BIOS, not just boot into the top entry).

Once you're in, have a look for the 'Boot' section. You should have the capability to define your boot order. These entries can consist of traditional disks connected via SATA/SCSI/m.2, USB drives, network locations etc.

You can arrange this boot order however you like.

I would also recommended temporarily disconnecting any existing drives when installing an OS on your system (e.g.: Windows attempts to store its bootloader on SATA 0 by default, even if the OS isn't destined for that drive).

flappy ,

Is Windows 10 unsupported by the newest processors?

RustyShackleford ,
@RustyShackleford@literature.cafe avatar

I looked it up shortly after posting, surprisingly seems like Windows 10 is supported, but 11 did better in a few of the tests.

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