Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

With iOS 17.4, Apple is making a number of huge changes to the way its mobile operating system works in order to comply with new regulations in the EU.

One of them is an important product shift: for the first time, Apple is going to allow alternative browser engines to run on iOS — but only for users in the EU.

Apple is clearly only doing this because it is required to by the EU’s new Digital Markets Act (DMA), which stipulates, among other things, that users should be allowed to uninstall preinstalled apps — including web browsers — that “steer them to the products and services of the gatekeeper.” In this case, iOS is the gatekeeper, and WebKit and Safari are Apple’s products and services.

Even in its release announcing the new features, Apple makes clear that it’s mad about them: “This change is a result of the DMA’s requirements, and means that EU users will be confronted with a list of default browsers before they have the opportunity to understand the options available to them,” the company says.

Apple argues (without any particular merit or evidence) that these other engines are a security and performance risk and that only WebKit is truly optimized and safe for iPhone users.

But in the EU, we’re likely to see these revamped browsers in the App Store as soon as iOS 17.4 drops in March: Google, for one, has been working on a non-WebKit version of Chrome for at least a year.

The original article contains 596 words, the summary contains 248 words. Saved 58%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

ladicius , (edited )

What has the EU ever done for us?

Aatube ,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Is this supposed to be sarcastic or something?

Balinares ,

Considering it's a reference to Monty Python's Life of Brian, I'm gonna go with yes.

SMillerNL ,

Probably more directly referencing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA

scratchee ,

Ok, apart from human rights, workers rights, rebalancing funds to poorer regions, free trade, free movement, a voice at the table, straight bananas, peace in Europe, and endless examples of consumer rights, what has the EU done for us?!

MaggiWuerze ,

The Aqueduct?

BigDanishGuy ,

What about the straightening of cucumbers? And regulating the amount of cinnamon in baked goods? And the GDPR? And trying to take away the red sprinkles on my liquorice pipes?

artic ,

What the reasons behind the amount of cinnamonin baked stuff?

barsoap ,

The limit is not on cinnamon but coumarin. Which means that if you want to put a lot of cinnamon in stuff you have to use the good stuff (Ceylon), not the cheap knockoff (Cassia), where a single teaspoon of powder can exceed the maximum recommended daily dose of coumarin (for flyweights or just generally small people). If you're in the supermarket and it doesn't say which type of cinnamon it is, it's bound to be Cassia. When buying straight bark (not powder): Cassia will be thick, rolled pieces, while Ceylon is thin pieces rolled up into each other.

In practice it was mostly a seasonal issue, e.g. Zimtsterne contain ludicrous amounts of cinnamon and you try telling a kid it can only have one.

And while I'm at it, the cucumber saga: Like with many such things it was the industry who asked for a EU regulation as previously there were differing national standards and they couldn't readily agree on a uniform one. Long story short if growers grow cucumbers straight (not hard) and to a certain size (also not hard), then a certain amount will fit into a standard box, which will have an approximately uniform weight, and a certain amount of those boxes fit onto a standard euro pallet of which a certain amount fit onto a standard lorry bed. Thus, "I'd like to buy a lorry load of cucumbers" is something that makes sense, supermarkets know how many cucumbers they're going to get and they can sell them by piece, not by weight, and everything works out.

EarMaster ,

That way Firefox has to submit a different app for Europe, splitting its userbase and making it more complicated for developers. They are pulling every trick they can...

_edge ,

True, but Firefox has a loyal fanbase.

fkn ,

I remember the day Firefox came out... It will always hold a special place in my heart.

cloudless ,
@cloudless@feddit.uk avatar

I remember Phoenix.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

If this was worldwide it would be the same amount QA work. The new rendering engine is the only thing worth paying attention to.

Almost no one is going to spend time QAing non-European Firefox. Outside of Europe it is basically just a glorified Safari WebView.

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

I think it will be an interesting experiment to see the impact of allowing other rendering engines. If the sky doesn’t fall, Apple doesn’t have a lot to argue with.

sir_reginald ,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

Safari will still have more than 90% of the market share in iOS. Most Apple users don't care or are fully unaware of this.

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

True. But that’s irrelevant to my curiosity.

AProfessional ,

Google will shove Chrome ads everywhere and get some users.

Octopus1348 ,
@Octopus1348@lemy.lol avatar

Most iPhone users use Chrome even tough it's just Safari but from Google. Google will just update the EU version to use Chromium and the in users will notice nothing.

fifisaac ,

Most iPhone users definitely don't use chrome

lurch ,

Crapple at it again

danc4498 ,

I’m crossing my fingers that there’s a way around this in non EU regions. Maybe there’ll be a simple exploit.

EarMaster ,

Have you considered moving to an EU member state? 😉

MarioBarisa ,
@MarioBarisa@lemmy.ml avatar

The only way Apple can make good changes is if the EU forces them to make good changes.

Norgur ,

Apple can be so laughably pathetic at times

TrickDacy ,

Other than creating the M1/M2 CPUs, when in the last 20 years haven't they been? Fuck apple.

sir_reginald ,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

those CPUs just happen to have a huge marketing budget behind and a very loyal fanbase. They aren't anything revolutionary. Sure, more battery life. In terms of daily usage, the difference with a high end AMD or Intel CPU is unnoticeable other than having a shiny apple on the back of your laptop.

TrickDacy ,

Well I went from an Intel to m1 (work) MacBook and the difference was quite stark. Even at times feels as fast as my home desktop, which is beefy.

pycorax ,

Those AMD and Intel chips drew a lot more power though. That said, AMD's Z1 Extreme looks very promising and shows that AMD can compete in the same ballpark or even surpass. It's just a matter of waiting for laptops to adopt it.

HeavyRaptor ,

I moved from the last Intel i9 15' mbp to a 14" m1 pro machine for work and the difference is stark. The m1 pro is significantly faster in both everyday tasks and code compile than the (now older) i9. It is also completely silent where the Intel machine will turn the fans on constantly even for light tasks. The m1 also has more than double or triple the battery life, allowing me to easily finish an entire day without plugging in, where the Intel one will doe within 2-4 hours depending on workload. I don't even really have to think about it. Overall the m1 is a significantly better machine. Intel is just starting to catch up with their core ultra cpus but I haven't used those yet personally.

Apple are assholes but the m1 chips turned out great.

MrSpArkle ,

Lol

BigDaddySlim ,
@BigDaddySlim@lemmy.world avatar

I've got a 13" M1 MBP about 2 years ago and I wanted to test it's power after I set it up. I loaded up Final Cut Pro, got to work editing a 15ish minute 1440p video with a lot of elements to it. The render time was about 3 minutes, which is on par or faster than my 5950x/3090 K|ngp|n desktop, and the fans didn't even turn on. It's not over hype. M2, sure I can agree since it was marginal uplift over M1. I'm not even an Apple fanboy, but that M1 chip is damn good for an off the shelf workstation.

flames5123 ,

I liked when they wrote a letter to the federal government telling them to fuck off with their backdoor request.

sfxrlz ,

Yet they preemptively pass on data from Chinese users over to the government to save „business interests“

Empricorn ,

Business over customer privacy: capitalism breeds enshittification. These companies are not our friends...

Jesus_666 ,

The unibody MBPs were solid for the most part. From 2008 to 2012 Apple actually made really good, decently priced, upgradeable, virtually indestructible Unix workstations; I'll give them that.

Too bad they then made the Retina generation of MBPs, which dropped most of what made the unibodies great and turned them from Unix workhorses to overpriced prosumer devices. And that's where they lived ever since.

Empricorn ,

A 4-year period, 14 years ago...? That's actually pathetic.

Jesus_666 ,

The preceding ones (iBooks, MacBooks, and aluminum MBPs) were okay for their time as well but not at the same level as the unibodies. Still, it's been a long time since Apple hardware was worth getting excited about.

Mind you, this is purely from a computer perspective. I never cared about their phones so I don't know how their quality holds up. I do acknowledge that they're unbeatable in terms of duration of support, though.

emptiestplace ,

They absolutely unfucked it with the 16" M1 though

Jesus_666 ,

Not in my opinion. The ports are barely adequate and I think neither RAM nor storage are user-upgradeable. The silicon is nice, yes, and they got rid of the touch bar. But I still think it's forcing too many tradeoffs to be worth it. (And, as usual, their base storage is tiny and their SSD upgrades are way overpriced. Hence the lack of internal slots is a real pain.)

echodot ,

Except it's also not upgradable so you're still screwed when inevitably you find that the six megabytes of RAM they've given you aren't enough

YurkshireLad ,

Damn you, allow this everywhere else too, you pedantic buggers!!

hperrin ,

Please let this come to the US. Safari (WebKit) is so far behind.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

In what ways?

hperrin ,

Mostly in everything that has to do with PWAs. It’s gotten better since they introduced Web Push last year, but there’s still a lot of things it doesn’t support, like Web Bluetooth, AV1 (except for devices with hardware decoders like the 15th gen Pro iPhones), and things like mobile sensor inputs.

But also in how bad its rendering engine is. Things that work on every other platform render super weird in WebKit.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

Thanks. Do you have an example of the super weird rendering? Also are none of what you’re saying here togglable in the WebKit Feature Flags to mess around with bleeding edge features?

TrickDacy ,

Every time I want to use a new feature of web browsers, if support stops me from doing so, it's always safari to blame.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

What was that last or current feature you’re missing out on and what’s the use case?

TrickDacy ,

I really can't remember an example off the top of my head. Over the last 5 years it's probably been an issue more than 20 times.

sleep_deprived ,

Besides rendering bugs that may or may not be Safari's fault, I wanted to get uBlock Origin on an iPhone but it's not available, IIRC because the content blocking API is more restrictive than what uBlock is designed for.

hperrin ,

I’m telling you my experience as a web developer for the last 20+ years. If you want specific examples, you could look online. I’ll tell you my SVG icons sometimes don’t work in mobile Safari and I have no idea why. They work 100% of the time in every other platform. I also have to do weird things to get the safe viewport measurements to work in my PWA, again, only in mobile Safari.

I’ll tell you what, you try asking customers to go toggle a feature flag and tell me how that works out.

Safari is almost always the last browser to adopt a standard, often times years after it’s been standardized. And don’t tell me it’s because they take their time to get it right, because their rollout of Web Push was atrocious.

the_nightman ,

Sounds like a skill issue xD

hperrin ,

Skill doesn’t matter at all if Safari doesn’t support the API.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

OK you’re speaking from a completely different point of view then. I was more curious about what I would be missing out on using Safari right now. Definitely not thinking about how a project I paid somebody to create is going to render.

hperrin ,

You’re missing out on the things people can’t create because Safari is holding the industry back. Just because it’s not a user facing problem doesn’t mean you’re not affected as a user.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

I hear you and understand where you’re coming from now. It just doesn’t help me visualize anything.

wahming ,

For example, my D&D group uses Virtual Table Top software to play. The software can't run on Safari. (don't ask me why, I'm just a user)

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

Interesting. What’s the software?

wahming ,

Foundry vtt

TrickDacy ,

If safari was a great browser, I don't think apple would fear competition to the point of fully banning it wherever possible

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

I haven’t had problems. I would just like to be educated on what I’m missing out on.

TrickDacy ,

Well web developers are the ones typically suffering since are the ones papering over the mess that is safari

ramjambamalam ,

Functioning ad block, background video playback, to name two extensions that are very useful on mobile.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

I have both of those capabilities right now and I have for a very, very long time.

ramjambamalam ,

Ah, I didn't know that was possible. I don't think it was last time I used iPhone circa 2019 or so.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

When I left android, I was jailbreaking on iOS, so generally had all of those features, but funny enough probably about right when you left extensions, VPN ad blockers, etc. came out. Officially and polished.

the_nightman ,

Safari is a great browser, especially in terms of performance and energy efficiency. Aside from adblockers what exactly does chrome/ff do better?

jukibom ,

Debugging (without a MacBook). Webgl 2. WebXR. Local storage not being completely gimped. I'm glad I don't work in that industry anymore, Safari was the bane of my existence...

Good web standards are a threat to the app store (particularly anything to do with ARKit) - not like 3rd party browsers are likely to change that much with the majority of users sticking to defaults, but it might apply some pressure

TrickDacy ,

Every other browser except IE has supported web standards more quickly and more fully. Safari is trash.

assembly ,

If I could just use my desktop Firefox Plugins I would be happy.

GombeenSysadmin ,

Ublock Origin, I Still Don’t Care About Cookies, and SponsorBlock make the web far more pleasant on my desktop than on my phone.

willya ,
@willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

Which ones are you needing? For Adblock I block using VPN, similar to setting up a pihole. I’ve found replacements for most of what I do use elsewhere. Some working even better then the desktop counterparts.

assembly ,

I have a pihole at home so it’s really when I am out and about but I’ll check out VPN offerings. The last time I used a vpn it really hit my battery hard but maybe it’s better now. Other than that it’s just the plugins to get rid of the cookie screens and additional YouTube ads.

Fades ,

Same that’s what I want out of this as well

DJDarren ,

OF COURSE this doesn’t apply to the UK, giving me yet another reason to wish kidney stones upon the architects of Brexit.

rudedude ,
@rudedude@lemmy.l0l.city avatar

....THE ARISTOCRATS!

did i do it right?

DJDarren ,

“So there’s this family of Tories, right, and they walk into a theatre…”

sir_reginald ,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

I mean, I'm sure they sell Android phones in the UK. Why do you buy Apple products if you are aware of their monopolistic practices that have to be battled with legislation?

smolyeet ,

not OP, but for me, using an iPhone and wishing it had a few features android had feels a lot better than using android and wishing it had features iOS does. It’s not like they both don’t participate in monopolistic practices

DJDarren ,

The fuck would I want to actively give all that data to Google for?

Also, I’ve blagged a couple of fairly old Samsung tablets to use at work, and they’re absolute shit to set up when compared to an iPad. There’s all the stock Google apps, and all the stock Samsung apps that offer the same fucking features, and they keep bugging you to set them up.

Nah mate, fuck using Android. All power to those who do, but it’s not my bag.

sir_reginald ,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

it's funny how you think that Apple isn't recollecting your data. It seems like their marketing is effective.

fairly old Samsung tablets to use at work, and they’re absolute shit

Can't argue with that, Samsung is absolute shit. Never used a tablet tho, so I can't comment on that.

The nicest part of Android is that it's open source and therefore the community makes Android builds that aren't plagued with spyware or any corporate bullshit.

DJDarren ,

I have been looking at alternatives to Android, but the range of hardware that supports it is currently fairly limited.

FutileRecipe ,

The fuck would I want to actively give all that data to Google for?

Heard of GrapheneOS on the Pixel line? "GrapheneOS is a privacy and security focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility developed as a non-profit open source project." https://grapheneos.org/

fairly old Samsung tablets to use at work, and they’re absolute shit to set up when compared to an iPad. There’s all the stock Google apps, and all the stock Samsung apps that offer the same fucking features, and they keep bugging you to set them up.

Samsung is not the best manufacturer, plus you said old. Either one is bad, but that's a terrible combo. And all the Google apps and OEM bloatware is fixed (gone) with a deGoogled OS like Graphene's.

AlexJD ,

I'm pretty sure the haunted Victorian pencil that is Jacob Rees-Mogg said that the UK not having universal USB-C was a "Brexit benefit". God help us all.

echodot ,

Yeah but he only says that sort of thing because he thinks that anything to electronic is voodoo magic.

Honytawk ,

It is a benefit though.

For the corporations that want to force users to buy their proprietary cables. To them it is a gold mine!

gravitas_deficiency ,

Oh my god just let me use my fucking Firefox plugins, Apple. 😑

realitista ,
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

I wonder if this move will change that, at least in the EU?

BigDanishGuy ,

So Firefox gets to run extensions now? Cool! I've missed using my iPad for youtube

herrwoland ,
@herrwoland@lemmy.world avatar

Apple is kicked and shoved into doing something slightly less restrictive (in EU) (because only EU has common sense and is not corrupt, apparently)

sir_reginald ,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

nah, they are just slightly less corrupt. And they like to mess with American megacorps too.

barsoap ,

The antitrust office is actually about the oldest part of the EU, with roots back in the ECSC: They saw the need to get rid of internal collusion to actually entwine the national coal and steel industries. Think of it as a bigger bully saying "We're the cartel bosses around here".

freeman ,

And they like to mess with American megacorps too.

Messing with megacrops is a feature, especially foreign ones.

sir_reginald ,
@sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

Messing with megacrops is a feature

I completely agree. I do not care if they are foreign or not, tho

slaacaa ,

Wow, amazing news (as an EU citizen). Will definitely check out the “proper” Ff once it’s out

Dariusmiles2123 ,

I was happy already with Firefox on my work iPhone but I’ll be happier now that I can just delete Safari

BaardFigur ,

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    GekkoState ,

    Tech sites have said that Mozilla probably has their native version already done so it's ready day 1.

    But these new rules by apple might put a damper on them actually offering it. Mozilla is a non profit, and apple is going to require a $0.50 tax on every app "for each first annual install per year over a 1 million threshold".

    I just don't see how how Mozilla could carry that cost considering they are at over 100 million installs on Android alone.

    iknowitwheniseeit ,

    I guess this change would work in conjunction with requirements to support sideloading in the EU too.

    kayazere ,

    Non-profits are exempt from this install tax.

    steal_your_face ,
    @steal_your_face@lemmy.ml avatar

    I got so excited for the headline until I saw the parentheses 😭

    micka190 ,

    Same. Overall, I'm happy with my iPhone, but not having an actual browser with an actual ad blocker (uBlock Origins) is really painful. I've had to live with ProtonVPN's ad blocking, but that only prevents sites from loading, it doesn't hide the actual ad links...

    narc0tic_bird ,
    @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

    AdGuard is a solid ad blocker for Safari. Not quite uBlock Origin level, but close.

    micka190 ,

    Maybe, but Safari has a dogshit UI and I much prefer Firefox over it. I despise the fact that they don't let other browsers use their extensions, though (even though they're forced to reskin Safari). I'd install AdGuard on Firefox if I could.

    narc0tic_bird ,
    @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

    I actually find the bottom bar pretty great.

    But you can actually switch between two layouts in the Settings app. Maybe you like the other option better?

    echodot ,

    Firefox has a bottom bar as well

    narc0tic_bird ,
    @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee avatar

    Yeah, was just asking whether the commenter was aware there was a setting for this as it's in the Settings app, not in Safari itself.

    I still prefer Safari's version though, swiping between tabs is pretty great.

    Petter1 ,

    I use 1Blocker for which I bought the lifetime license on my iOS Safari, as well as adGuard DNS blocking running on my OpnSense at home (WireGuard automatically connects my phone to my home network via VPN as soon as I leave my WiFi)

    jvrava9 ,
    @jvrava9@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Orion browser

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • random
  • technology@lemmy.world
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines
    •