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asdfasdfasdf ,

It perplexes me that people choose to use a platform which won't let even let them choose how a browser works.

habitualcynic , (edited )

For me, iOS works substantially better at my employer. At the end of the day, it’s better for some enterprise integration. I wish it was different, but this is probably true for many. EDIT: I’d choose Android if my employer supported it enough to do my job effectively. :(

rowdyrockets , (edited )

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    deranger ,

    I straight up don’t talk about Apple or Windows on lemmy, it’s toxic as fuck. Nice chilling effect with downvoting literally anything that’s more positive than “I hate it”

    rowdyrockets , (edited )

    [Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    deranger ,

    In general I have a great time here. I only visit Reddit for niche topics maybe once or twice a week. However, here’s some topics I just don’t comment on because the responses I see others get.

    joe_cool ,

    Downvotes on Lemmy do even less than on reddit. Some people use it as a general "disagree but too lazy to reply" button. You could just look up who voted on ActivityPub though, so votes aren't anonymous.

    darganon ,

    Lol, I have a Tesla and enjoy Google and all(most) of the their products. Lemmy is unhinged about these things.

    TurtledUp ,

    I found the opposite I love the way the work profile functions on Android. It's logically separated (even to the point you can have VPN setup for just work apps) and you can enable and disable all work apps from a quick settings tile as well as schedule it to turn on and off at certain times.

    habitualcynic ,

    Oh 100%, I look at it with envy when I see reviews lol. My work doesn’t have an MDM implementation that’s compatible with that on Android. I took some inspiration from it on my iOS focus modes but it’s not the same. The way my employer has it setup, the calendar and email only work through specific apps on Android instead of device intention like native calendar and email, which inhibits push and exchange. “The shitty boxer app didn’t notify me” isn’t a good enough excuse :/ … okay end of complaining.

    TurtledUp ,

    That sucks you guys can't get an mdm up and going but it's not free I don't believe so it makes sense for smaller companies.   I think there is a way to do a sort of homebrew work profile using Tasker or similar automation app to control it.

    theonyltruemupf ,

    Main problem is that Android sucks too. The mobile OS market is a burning dumpster fire controlled by two of the biggest companies in the world.
    My point is I use arch btw and I'd like to do so on my phone as well. (With it still being practical)

    asdfasdfasdf ,

    Android is far more free than iOS, and it's based on open source so pretty easy to remove all Google stuff if you care about it. But by default you can side load whatever you want.

    theonyltruemupf ,

    That's true and pretty cool and I will always choose Android over iOS, but it's still a bad system. I want a phone architecture where I can just slap an OS on there like it's a PC and upgrade to new versions until the hardware craps out. But I can't

    uthredii ,

    You can install alternative android distros on an android phone that will keep updating long after the manufacturer has stopped. For example lineage OS which supports lots of devices (but not all).

    There are also Linux distros targeted to mobile devices.

    You just need to pick a device that is supported when buying.

    uis ,
    @uis@lemmy.world avatar

    Gentoo can work on some phones. Maybe arch can too.

    ky56 ,

    Have you considered the PinePhone (Pro)?

    Rob ,

    just use an Android.

    SuperSpruce ,

    Apple. I live in the US. I'm thinking of replacing my current iPad with another tablet. If you let me have real Firefox, I'll probably buy a $750 iPad with a 1500% storage markup as my next tablet. If not, I'll choose an Android tablet. It's so simple, Apple. Huge profit or a lost customer. All because of something so easy to implement.

    DreamlandLividity ,

    I feel like "so easy to implement" still understates it. It is literally the default option: don't crate and enfore a dumb rule. They have to go out of their way to make their product shittier.

    Also, you should not buy an apple product, if for no other reason, than because they can just change their mind at any time. As long as the appstore is the only way to install apps, you have no control over your own device.

    SuperSpruce ,

    The problem is that Android tablets in the US have little competition, allowing for very high prices. The Samsung Tab S9 series are more expensive than the iPad pros.

    Also, basically all non-budget Android tablets outside of Samsung has copied Apple's anti-consumer decisions to remove the headphone jack and MicroSD slot from their tablets. There's not much reason to buy an Android tablet as Apple literally gives you superior performance per dollar.

    Also in my case, my current iPad is the only way I can use iMessage, which is how almost all of my friends communicate. And, the iPad really does have the superior stylus experience with the Apple Pencil (I have one, and it works great).

    One of the biggest weaknesses of the iPad is no true Firefox, which means that your best way to browse the web is through adblock Plus, or Brave browser. They block most ads, but don't provide the blanket security and powerful features of uBlock origin.

    Fixing this one thing hugely swings the pendulum from "lean Android" to "likely Apple" for me. It turns the 6/10 product into a 7/10. And allowing sideloading would turn the decision into a no-brainer, as the iPad would suddenly turn into a 9/10.

    dustyData ,

    the superior stylus experience with the Apple Pencil

    I laugh at you in S pen. Having tried both, Apple pencil feels like a knockoff S pen.

    SuperSpruce ,

    Interesting. I've never tried the S pen, and I thought reviews leaned towards the Apple Pencil. And every other stylus experience I've tried so far is subpar. I should give the S Pen a try.

    dustyData ,

    Unlike Apple the Samsung tablets come packaged with the pen and are designed with a special layer on the screen dedicated to sense the pen. Apple barely has two models of the pencil with the latest being from 2018. There's an S pen for every generation of galaxy tablets but most tablets and the flagship phones are compatible with the newest pens. The samsung software also has some unique features like the hover gestures that make it magical to use the S pen.

    rab ,
    @rab@lemmy.ca avatar

    They don't care, it's more important to suck users into the apple ecosystem than it is to just sell devices

    SuperSpruce ,

    So being an iPad user using true Firefox is not as much in the Apple ecosystem as being an Android tablet user (who also uses true Firefox)? Apple is crazy.

    EarMaster ,

    Just think about it. Let's assume that 1% of users will do the same and choose another device on their next purchase. That means that the profit loss Apple has to expect is less than the profit loss for losing their app store monopoly. For Apple this is a somewhat simple business calculation and it shows how much more profit they earn from app store purchases than from hardware sales.

    dunestorm ,
    @dunestorm@lemmy.world avatar

    This only in the EU thing is going to bite them in the ass hard. You’re going to get App developers pretending to operate in the EU or moving there just to have more creative freedom.

    Users will also find ways of doing the exact same. You can’t have one rule for one group of people and different rules for everyone else.

    ADTJ ,

    They may eventually get dragged there kicking and screaming but will milk consumers in other markets for every penny they can before that happens

    riskable ,
    @riskable@programming.dev avatar

    You can’t have one rule for one group of people and different rules for everyone else.

    "In the name of the greatest smartphone that have ever graced this earth, we draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and say separate rules now, separate rules tomorrow, separate rules forever." -Apple, probably

    And009 ,

    Sounds awfully lot like 'divide and conquer'. Where have I heard that before?

    riskable ,
    @riskable@programming.dev avatar

    It's my humorous manipulation of famous quote by George Wallace regarding segregation in the US. Here's the original:

    "In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." -George Wallace, infamous racists prick

    You can read all about his descent into racist madness here:

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/wallace-quotes/#:~:text=In%20the%20name%20of%20the,segregation%20tomorrow%2C%20segregation%20forever.%22

    (It is quite interesting how he changed over time... Almost like regularly spending time with racists--who you view as close friends--can lead to absorbing racist views)

    Sensitivezombie ,

    Just a wild guess, but I think Apple is fully aware of this. They are intentionally keeping it separate to set a precedence that they will not bend over and let EU dictate and for the rest of the world to reap the benefit. Same with their decision to fine users for sideloading. They know it's a losing battle they are just trying to make it as difficult as possible.

    avidamoeba , (edited )
    @avidamoeba@lemmy.ca avatar

    Most developers won't pretend they operate in the EU because that would likely result in account loss. As for anyone actually moving there for this, I highly doubt it. Most developers who distribute on the App Store are looking for profit, not creativity. Trying to go around Apple for this sounds like risking those profits.

    Furthermore the European versions won't be available outside of Europe so if anyone wants to keep their existing non-European users, they'd have to maintain two versions. That's extra work and unless there's some significant profit unlocked by the European changes, the most likely scenario is that developers would stick to whatever's allowed worldwide. Which is likely Apple's goal - comply with the regulation, while making it sufficiently undesirable for developers to change anything.

    hugetechnerd ,

    I'd kill to get real firefox and extensions.

    AlmightySnoo ,
    @AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

    Everyone should just move to the EU at this rate

    ForgotAboutDre ,

    Apple forcing WebKit on its mobile devices is one of the few things stopping Chrome's dominance on web standards. It controls the majority of the market. As well as most browsers that aren't chrome are using chrome's web engine such as Edge, brave, vilvaldi, opera, kiwi, Samsung web browser, electron etc.

    This move is good for Firefox, and good for making web technologies more accessible.

    However, it makes it easier for Google to force their vision for the future of the web. Now Google can push it's browser on to iOS users as a solution to web pages not rendering correctly in WebKit. Rather than being forced to adopt and implement common web standards that safari and Firefox also follow.

    The best solution would be forcing all significant platforms to allow alternative browser engines (include iPads) and start to consider punishing websites that don't fully support all major browser engines. Such as safari, chrome and Firefox.

    uis ,
    @uis@lemmy.world avatar

    WebKit is chromium basically. Or chromium is webkit. You get the idea.

    If crapple wasn't so anti-consumer, EU wouldn't create law in first place.

    ForgotAboutDre ,

    Yeah, this is part of the big issue with chrome being internet explorer for this generation.

    Chrome forking WebKit has the dog wagging the tail. Apple need to follow chrome's web 'standards', else they break compatibility. As well as the billions Google give Apple every year, no doubts influences their implementation of safari.

    But this change means Chrome can stray further from WebKit and use this change to get people using chrome on apple devices.

    The best thing for the future of the web is to use Firefox and boycott websites that don't support it. If another new browser technology comes about that too would be worth supporting.

    uis ,
    @uis@lemmy.world avatar

    Or EU move to everyone. I wouldn't mind, EU is much better than bunker rat.

    AlmightySnoo ,
    @AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world avatar

    "we should take Bikini Bottom and push it somewhere else" GIF

    HowManyNimons ,

    Maybe declare war on the EU and then surrender?

    EarMaster ,

    That way Firefox has to submit a different app for Europe, splitting its userbase and making it more complicated for developers. They are pulling every trick they can...

    _edge ,

    True, but Firefox has a loyal fanbase.

    fkn ,

    I remember the day Firefox came out... It will always hold a special place in my heart.

    cloudless ,
    @cloudless@feddit.uk avatar

    I remember Phoenix.

    Ghostalmedia ,
    @Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

    If this was worldwide it would be the same amount QA work. The new rendering engine is the only thing worth paying attention to.

    Almost no one is going to spend time QAing non-European Firefox. Outside of Europe it is basically just a glorified Safari WebView.

    tsonfeir ,
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    I think it will be an interesting experiment to see the impact of allowing other rendering engines. If the sky doesn’t fall, Apple doesn’t have a lot to argue with.

    sir_reginald ,
    @sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

    Safari will still have more than 90% of the market share in iOS. Most Apple users don't care or are fully unaware of this.

    tsonfeir ,
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    True. But that’s irrelevant to my curiosity.

    AProfessional ,

    Google will shove Chrome ads everywhere and get some users.

    Octopus1348 ,
    @Octopus1348@lemy.lol avatar

    Most iPhone users use Chrome even tough it's just Safari but from Google. Google will just update the EU version to use Chromium and the in users will notice nothing.

    fifisaac ,

    Most iPhone users definitely don't use chrome

    lurch ,

    Crapple at it again

    danc4498 ,

    I’m crossing my fingers that there’s a way around this in non EU regions. Maybe there’ll be a simple exploit.

    EarMaster ,

    Have you considered moving to an EU member state? 😉

    TCB13 ,
    @TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

    Expected... and then people criticize me when I say they'll get around the sideload requirement by simply requiring a special certificate / payment / vetting process. lol

    MashedTech ,

    Damn, such foresight

    CriticalMiss ,

    How will that work? Firefox is gonna maintain two different builds?

    billiam0202 ,

    Three, technically:

    • Firefox for Android
    • Firefox for iOS EU
    • Firefox for iOS US
    baseless_discourse , (edited )

    fennce f-droid is also an official build.

    Edit: it is not... https://gitlab.com/relan/fennecbuild

    hamsterkill ,

    Not completely official, no. Mozilla may help with it, but since it doesn't carry the Firefox branding, and isn't built by Mozilla, it's not entirely official.

    d3Xt3r ,

    There's also Firefox Beta, Nightly and Focus.

    sunbeam60 ,

    Not at all the same. These are three outputs from the same build process and code base. Maintaining a build with WebKit and one with Mozilla’s own rendering engine is like running a different team.

    It’s almost as if Apple is making this difficult.

    d3Xt3r ,

    same build process and code base.

    It's not the same code base though. They're all different branches, and also differ in code (although not by much, but it still requires manual maintenance of each branch). I haven't seen the actual build process but it's likely to be completely separate CI/CD pipelines, so I wouldn't claim it to be the "same" build process either. Also, Focus uses a completely different UI with a different/cut-down set of features.

    Naturally I'm not saying that maintaining these branches amounts to the same level of effort as maintaining the iOS WebKit and Gecko branches, but it's not some non-trivial effort either.

    sunbeam60 ,

    I didn’t realise Focus was a unique feature set. My apologies. I maintain my original comment on Nightly and Beta - if they aren’t using (almost) the same CI/CD pipeline, doesn’t it sort of defeat the purpose of each of these builds being a maturation towards a stable build? I’ve certainly never deployed software with a “daily/beta/stable” branch/feature-flag structure that wasn’t attempting to replicate the build process, with a view to catching issues upstream/pre-stable.

    Tatters ,

    It doesn’t have to be separate branches - you can generate different versions of the software from the same code branch, e.g. using compiler/build time switches for those bits of the code that differ between the different target platforms. Then you would have a build pipeline per platform; even here the build pipeline can share a lot of common code, and just be parameterized for the specific platform.

    riskable ,
    @riskable@programming.dev avatar

    Lets not make this out to be like it's Kerberos (more complicated than rocket science)... Making available another, region-specific version of your app isn't difficult. It's just the developer equivalent of an extra one-time TPS report (you have to setup/modify some build scripts and make some additional tests).

    It's the equivalent of having builds for .rpm and .deb and then adding a .AppImage build. It shouldn't be that big a deal for the Mozilla Firefox team.

    In fact, I bet they're freaking excited at the prospect of being able to make a real build of Firefox for iOS.

    amir_s89 ,

    Maybe same, but those outside EU will have some functions/ featlrures deactivated as standard.

    Can that work?

    gencha ,

    Nobody will maintain any builds, because the restrictions are still ludicrous. Most people in the comments are missing the point entirely.

    CriticalMiss ,

    That’s what I thought. I’m just waiting for an official Mozilla reply.

    antrosapien ,

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/7758e8f2-0eb5-4319-b6d2-8cb500912e3b.jpeg

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/9240398f-ba21-4b3e-ab63-15e7e079342c.jpeg

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty,_and_doubt

    wikibot Bot ,

    Here's the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:

    Fear, uncertainty and doubt (often shortened to FUD) is a manipulative propaganda tactic used in sales, marketing, public relations, politics, polling and cults. FUD is generally a strategy to influence perception by disseminating negative and dubious or false information, and is a manifestation of the appeal to fear.

    ^to^ ^opt^ ^out^^,^ ^pm^ ^me^ ^'optout'.^
    ^article^ ^|^ ^about^

    ShortFuse ,

    I thought you meant this:

    Microsoft insisted that Internet Explorer (IE) was not a product but a feature that it was allowed to add to Windows, although the DOJ did not agree with this definition.[6]

    The government alleged that Microsoft had abused monopoly power on Intel-based personal computers in its handling of operating system and web browser integration.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.

    Also in the EU:

    Under the commitments approved by the Commission, Microsoft will make available for five years in the European Economic Area (through the Windows Update mechanism) a "Choice Screen" enabling users of Windows XP, Windows Vista and Windows 7 to choose which web browser(s) they want to install in addition to, or instead of, Microsoft's browser Internet Explorer.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_09_1941

    wikibot Bot ,

    Here's the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:

    United States of America v. Microsoft Corporation, 253 F. 3d 34 (D. C. Cir.

    ^to^ ^opt^ ^out^^,^ ^pm^ ^me^ ^'optout'.^
    ^article^ ^|^ ^about^

    vamp07 ,
    @vamp07@lemm.ee avatar

    Just wait till the first security vulnerability are discovered in the code that now will be able to run on iOS and which Apple can't control directly. Nobody will remember that the cause was forcing Apple to open up their system. They will just blame Apple.

    Norgur ,

    Apple can be so laughably pathetic at times

    TrickDacy ,

    Other than creating the M1/M2 CPUs, when in the last 20 years haven't they been? Fuck apple.

    sir_reginald ,
    @sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

    those CPUs just happen to have a huge marketing budget behind and a very loyal fanbase. They aren't anything revolutionary. Sure, more battery life. In terms of daily usage, the difference with a high end AMD or Intel CPU is unnoticeable other than having a shiny apple on the back of your laptop.

    TrickDacy ,

    Well I went from an Intel to m1 (work) MacBook and the difference was quite stark. Even at times feels as fast as my home desktop, which is beefy.

    pycorax ,

    Those AMD and Intel chips drew a lot more power though. That said, AMD's Z1 Extreme looks very promising and shows that AMD can compete in the same ballpark or even surpass. It's just a matter of waiting for laptops to adopt it.

    HeavyRaptor ,

    I moved from the last Intel i9 15' mbp to a 14" m1 pro machine for work and the difference is stark. The m1 pro is significantly faster in both everyday tasks and code compile than the (now older) i9. It is also completely silent where the Intel machine will turn the fans on constantly even for light tasks. The m1 also has more than double or triple the battery life, allowing me to easily finish an entire day without plugging in, where the Intel one will doe within 2-4 hours depending on workload. I don't even really have to think about it. Overall the m1 is a significantly better machine. Intel is just starting to catch up with their core ultra cpus but I haven't used those yet personally.

    Apple are assholes but the m1 chips turned out great.

    MrSpArkle ,

    Lol

    BigDaddySlim ,
    @BigDaddySlim@lemmy.world avatar

    I've got a 13" M1 MBP about 2 years ago and I wanted to test it's power after I set it up. I loaded up Final Cut Pro, got to work editing a 15ish minute 1440p video with a lot of elements to it. The render time was about 3 minutes, which is on par or faster than my 5950x/3090 K|ngp|n desktop, and the fans didn't even turn on. It's not over hype. M2, sure I can agree since it was marginal uplift over M1. I'm not even an Apple fanboy, but that M1 chip is damn good for an off the shelf workstation.

    flames5123 ,

    I liked when they wrote a letter to the federal government telling them to fuck off with their backdoor request.

    sfxrlz ,

    Yet they preemptively pass on data from Chinese users over to the government to save „business interests“

    Empricorn ,

    Business over customer privacy: capitalism breeds enshittification. These companies are not our friends...

    Jesus_666 ,

    The unibody MBPs were solid for the most part. From 2008 to 2012 Apple actually made really good, decently priced, upgradeable, virtually indestructible Unix workstations; I'll give them that.

    Too bad they then made the Retina generation of MBPs, which dropped most of what made the unibodies great and turned them from Unix workhorses to overpriced prosumer devices. And that's where they lived ever since.

    Empricorn ,

    A 4-year period, 14 years ago...? That's actually pathetic.

    Jesus_666 ,

    The preceding ones (iBooks, MacBooks, and aluminum MBPs) were okay for their time as well but not at the same level as the unibodies. Still, it's been a long time since Apple hardware was worth getting excited about.

    Mind you, this is purely from a computer perspective. I never cared about their phones so I don't know how their quality holds up. I do acknowledge that they're unbeatable in terms of duration of support, though.

    emptiestplace ,

    They absolutely unfucked it with the 16" M1 though

    Jesus_666 ,

    Not in my opinion. The ports are barely adequate and I think neither RAM nor storage are user-upgradeable. The silicon is nice, yes, and they got rid of the touch bar. But I still think it's forcing too many tradeoffs to be worth it. (And, as usual, their base storage is tiny and their SSD upgrades are way overpriced. Hence the lack of internal slots is a real pain.)

    echodot ,

    Except it's also not upgradable so you're still screwed when inevitably you find that the six megabytes of RAM they've given you aren't enough

    DJDarren ,

    OF COURSE this doesn’t apply to the UK, giving me yet another reason to wish kidney stones upon the architects of Brexit.

    rudedude ,
    @rudedude@lemmy.l0l.city avatar

    ....THE ARISTOCRATS!

    did i do it right?

    DJDarren ,

    “So there’s this family of Tories, right, and they walk into a theatre…”

    sir_reginald ,
    @sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean, I'm sure they sell Android phones in the UK. Why do you buy Apple products if you are aware of their monopolistic practices that have to be battled with legislation?

    smolyeet ,

    not OP, but for me, using an iPhone and wishing it had a few features android had feels a lot better than using android and wishing it had features iOS does. It’s not like they both don’t participate in monopolistic practices

    DJDarren ,

    The fuck would I want to actively give all that data to Google for?

    Also, I’ve blagged a couple of fairly old Samsung tablets to use at work, and they’re absolute shit to set up when compared to an iPad. There’s all the stock Google apps, and all the stock Samsung apps that offer the same fucking features, and they keep bugging you to set them up.

    Nah mate, fuck using Android. All power to those who do, but it’s not my bag.

    sir_reginald ,
    @sir_reginald@lemmy.world avatar

    it's funny how you think that Apple isn't recollecting your data. It seems like their marketing is effective.

    fairly old Samsung tablets to use at work, and they’re absolute shit

    Can't argue with that, Samsung is absolute shit. Never used a tablet tho, so I can't comment on that.

    The nicest part of Android is that it's open source and therefore the community makes Android builds that aren't plagued with spyware or any corporate bullshit.

    DJDarren ,

    I have been looking at alternatives to Android, but the range of hardware that supports it is currently fairly limited.

    FutileRecipe ,

    The fuck would I want to actively give all that data to Google for?

    Heard of GrapheneOS on the Pixel line? "GrapheneOS is a privacy and security focused mobile OS with Android app compatibility developed as a non-profit open source project." https://grapheneos.org/

    fairly old Samsung tablets to use at work, and they’re absolute shit to set up when compared to an iPad. There’s all the stock Google apps, and all the stock Samsung apps that offer the same fucking features, and they keep bugging you to set them up.

    Samsung is not the best manufacturer, plus you said old. Either one is bad, but that's a terrible combo. And all the Google apps and OEM bloatware is fixed (gone) with a deGoogled OS like Graphene's.

    AlexJD ,

    I'm pretty sure the haunted Victorian pencil that is Jacob Rees-Mogg said that the UK not having universal USB-C was a "Brexit benefit". God help us all.

    echodot ,

    Yeah but he only says that sort of thing because he thinks that anything to electronic is voodoo magic.

    Honytawk ,

    It is a benefit though.

    For the corporations that want to force users to buy their proprietary cables. To them it is a gold mine!

    Allero ,

    Mozilla itself lashed out at this decision, as it means they have to maintain both Gecko (for EU) and WebKit (for everybody else) editions of the browser.

    This is, in essence, malicious compliance.

    nostradiel ,
    @nostradiel@lemmy.world avatar

    I can see those stupid Americans buying eu phone variants for a premium price from scalpers. 😅

    llamatron ,
    @llamatron@lemmy.world avatar

    That seems unnecessarily rude

    ForgotAboutDre ,

    A VPN might manage this. It could be a location based implementation.

    Thinking about it your probably right, a sales based location is easier for apple to restrict and simpler to implement.

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