Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

China doesn't have oil and they want to be energy independent. Because of this they heavily invest in renewables.

It's not like they are doing it to save the planet, but it does save the planet.

Skkorm ,

China's govt has been trying to make their country as self sustaining as possible, this is part of that initiative. No one can tell you shit if you're don't rely on anyone for external things.

SparrowRanjitScaur ,

Ya, it makes sense considering China imports 2/3 of their oil. Solar and EVs make a lot of sense when you don't have much in the way of fossil fuels. Not even considering the environmental benefits

Spazz ,

We'd have more if these right wing assholes would get onboard. You know they're assholes because they're attacking China in the comments rather than acknowledging this awesome milestone

EmergMemeHologram ,

Oh my God, that's awful!

I hope the US responds by installing more solar panels this year than China ever has!

Wogi ,

Let's install solar panels on the moon! That'll fucking show them. Beam the energy back to earth with giant fucking microwave dishes. Ohhh that would really piss off them damn reds

JasonDJ , (edited )

Until it’s a new moon…

Actually that raises an interesting point…the best time for solar, on earth, is when the panels are most directly hit.

So since the moon is tidally locked to the earth, that means that there would be better ideal tilts at each longitude, so that whenever the sun is out, they are tilted to receive as much light as possible. But that also means that the panels only even receive light for half of the lunar cycle, at most.

Right? Am I overthinking this?

Wogi ,

There are craters towards the poles that receive sunlight all the time. But you'd still have to build extra panels for the lunar cycle. Equatorial stations might be better, and if you built 3, 2 would be in direct sunlight almost all the time.

Which is fine! Gives you time to do maintenance without any additional losses.

JasonDJ , (edited )

Not really…you don’t want to be out doing maintenance at lunar night. We’d have to have some serious improvement in EVA suits, mechsuits, or robots.

There’s a reason every Apollo mission landed at lunar dawn.

Wogi ,

That's it. We'll need to invent sun lamps. Lamps bright and hot enough to illuminate and warm the Martian surface at night, to enable maintenance.

prole ,
@prole@sh.itjust.works avatar

We can do it, not because it's easy, but because it is hard.

Wait what? That's an awful reason to do something.

Wogi ,

Doing the hard thing is a learning experience.

randon31415 ,

Building giant empty cities in the middle of nowhere doesn't help the housing crisis in China.

Building giant solar and wind farms in the middle of nowhere does help with the pollution crisis.

Glad that they finally found something that uses dumping money in the middle of nowhere that can actually improve peoples lives instead of just prop up an economic bubble.

psychothumbs ,

Fantastic. Remember guys, we're all on the same side on this one. This should be a signal for the US to get its ass in gear to do the same, but it's not like China expanding its renewable energy capacity is anything but great for everyone.

trackcharlie ,

Cool.

And how many of them function properly?

kattenluik ,

Probably every single one of them, but I'm guessing you just feel insecure about your country?

Disinfect056 ,

Yea.... Hahaha they are chineese panels lol

LowtierComputer ,

Many of the panels in the US are manufactured in China.

trackcharlie ,

I was more referencing the fact that there's a significant problem in china with the misappropriation of funds and replacing of real components and equipment with fake or non-functioning components and equipment.

US has regulatory bodies that (sometimes) work on their own, China has regulatory bodies that only work when the state notices something is wrong, and by that time it's too late and several billion yuan (RMB) deep.

It's not as though there's an intended malevolence to the people by the CCP, it's just that their organization structure and manner doesn't allow for a lot of autonomy and requires direct orders to go into action.

trackcharlie ,

I doubt it, I've no interest in discussing the matter with someone who clearly doesn't keep up to date on architectural issues within the mainland.

傻瓜

Disinfect056 ,

Hahahhaa the correct comment! Lol

ipkpjersi ,

Well, someone has to make use of renewable energy I guess lol

PanArab , (edited )

The rise of China is democratizing access to technology. My home government, supposedly a longtime partner of the US even doing its dirty work in Yemen, has struggled for years to get any tech transfer deal with the US, too many hoops to jump through. But were able to get many tech transfers from China recently. It was a major win and that technology includes solar panel manufacturing.

AngryCommieKender ,

Too many hoops, like stop funding the terrorist groups that attacked The US on 9/11? Yeah, I can see how MBS might have some trust issues coming from The US.

PanArab , (edited )

Funny you accuse the Saudi government of what was an inside-job. The Saudi government exiled Bin Laden in the 1990s, revoking his citizenship, while the US was still working with him. Either way we don’t need it from you. China is making you irrelevant. You can’t withhold technology to bully the rest of the world. You can go pound sand.

Also funny coming from a nation where a genocidal maniac is the lesser evil, someone who is bypassing Congress to send weapons to Israel and bomb Yemen. You keep your electoralism, and I am keeping our free healthcare, free universities and high speed rail.

FYI, the US is guilty of multiple war crimes in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. They are guilty right now of war crimes in Palestine. It is really tiring how you pretend to be the good guys. You are Homelander not Superman, and you are no longer the only player in town.

Sarmyth ,

Bro... the current leadership of China committed genocide on their own soil and have been attempting to expand their borders for decades.

China is not a good partner for playing the lesser of 2 evils game. You'd be at it all day with the whataboutism.

PanArab ,

Bro the US wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for genocide and slavery. The US right now occupies oil fields in Iraq and Syria and is stealing the oil. The US right now is sending weapons to Israel to massacre Palestinians. No one cares about your virtue signaling.

China is a much lesser evil. They don’t try to push us to normalize with genocidal maniacs (Zionist usurpers) as a precondition for even the most basic of technologies.

If you think China is so bad just compare the policing of Hong Kong protests with the policing of George Floyd protests. The emperor has no clothes.

FYI: the US is also expanding https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-22/us-claims-huge-chunk-of-seabed-amid-strategic-push-for-resources and it is also helping Israel annex Syrian and Palestinian lands.

Sarmyth ,

Yeah, we know. But again.... the whataboutism. Countries exist because of war and oppression. It's time to move past that as an excuse.

This is a joke, though, as you are just projecting and doing what you've accused me of. Just don't bother. Rounding up and sterilizing your citizens. And China famously gunned protesters down in the streets. So I don't want to hear about how we handle protesters compared to China.

Crudely6553 ,

What about USA this, what about USA that. What about the assassination of Kashoggi? What about the killings of innocents for protesting in the Arab states?

PanArab ,

If you are bringing up journalists then you should care about Palestinian journalists being slaughtered by US weapons

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/gaza-un-experts-condemn-killing-and-silencing-journalists

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-war-in-gaza-has-been-deadly-for-journalists

cheesorist ,

still better than the us

AngryCommieKender ,

Shit were guilty of war crimes inside the US. Tell me something I don't know.

Thing is our government occasionally fucks up and does some good shit. MBS, and Ji Jinpooh don't give two fucks about their own people or any others.

MBS is still funding terrorist groups 24 years later, and murdering journalists.

The US Government may be a soulless corporate structure bent on enriching itself. MBS is a parochial dictator that is just pissed off we don't need his dino juice anymore.

Crudely6553 ,

Grow up. Your bias is shining too strongly.

yesman ,

Democracy and technology? You're thinking of Taiwan.

PanArab ,

Which is a part of China according to even the US

fruitycoder ,

Except in any defacto way, mainland has 0 control on the rule of law in Taiwan. They have their own taxes, military, laws, elections, etc, and again pay no taxes, follow no laws, they don't partipate in mainlands gov, and don't serve in their military.

There is even some international recognition, but mainland does it's best to hinder their diplomatic missions.

PanArab ,

ربي يعطيك على قد نيتك

Crudely6553 ,

Taiwan is an independent and democratic country, unlike the totalitarian and pseudo-communist state that is China.

Blackmist ,

Good. I assume it helps that most of the world's solar panel manufacturing is based in China.

The rest of the world should be ramping up production, not relying on China for cheap labour.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

its obviously good for the rest of the world to industrialize, but they would just be moving carbon emissions from china to themselves.

they themselves would need to transition to renewables if we want this move to be good for the climate.

gnygnygny ,

Think about Uyghurs.

brain_in_a_box ,

Anyone still repeating the Uighur genocide conspiracy theory in this day and age - long after the western media has backed away from it, independent bodies have found no evidence, Isreal demonstrating that you can’t ‘secretly’ genocide a population without evidence getting out, and all the original proponents of the conspiracy now one hundred percent on board for the genocide of Palestinians - is either knowingly lying or terminally propagandized.

dezmd ,
@dezmd@lemmy.world avatar

The irony of your propaganda account posting about propaganda is full flavored.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

well arab countries have visited them and found no problem and mass refugee movements arent happening. i think they should be fine.

what did i say that was remotely related to them on my post?

vaultdweller013 ,
@vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works avatar

I trust the Arab countrys as far as I could throw them. Get the Irish in there and I may take such claims seriously.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

the conspiracy is that the arabs are complicit with their own secret genocide then? what do the irish have to do with an arab genocide? 🤣

vaultdweller013 ,
@vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works avatar

What do Arabs have to do a Turkic genocide? You are conflating Muslim and Arab.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

by all means, get the irish to show us whats happening there then.

Blackmist ,

That would be the point of making panels and wind turbines themselves.

Ideally you'd want enough manufacturing capacity to power your whole country with renewables, in the time it takes for the first bits to start needing replacements.

fruitycoder ,

I keep seeing more and more about the solar production in Georgia, USA ramping up!

It great to see the world really going into green industrialzation.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

Cool part is we've got a functional safety system like OSHA so everyone goes home with all their fingers and toes, and the EPA keeps the nearby creeks from getting contaminated.

Can't say the same for other countries, troubled and fucked up as our country is.

PanArab ,

Other countries are Asiatic hordes, nothing but lawlessness and savagery. Only America make clean safe technology! 😜

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Superfund_sites 🤨

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

You know how when you're the first to do something, you're also the first to make mistakes? Look at the Hanford site, for example. First place to ever process uranium and plutonium.

Imagine knowing the results of being careless, and being careless anyway, after the fact. 😂 What's wrong with you??

To be clear: I believe most people anywhere want to be safe, and do a good job. Their administrators and governmental reps are the pieces of dogshit, ccp included, that ignore safety and individuality. The US has serious problems too, but again, we have safety organizations with teeth here.

kawa ,
@kawa@reddeet.com avatar

And opened more coal plants too lol, don't be quick in praising the CCP, there's always something shady in the background...

Olhonestjim ,

And systematically genociding their minorities too. Let's never forget that.

brain_in_a_box ,

Anyone still repeating the Uighur genocide conspiracy theory in this day and age - long after the western media has backed away from it, independent bodies have found no evidence, Isreal demonstrating that you can’t ‘secretly’ genocide a population without evidence getting out, and all the original proponents of the conspiracy now one hundred percent on board for the genocide of Palestinians - is either knowingly lying or terminally propagandized.

gnygnygny ,

This is not just a theory. There are evidences. Until you relay CCP propaganda.

brain_in_a_box ,

Better half of a decade and not a single piece of physical or documentary evidence has been found, the death count remains at 0, Xinjiang remains completely open to visitation, no refugee wave has occurred despite a massive, non-militarized border, the UN and every Muslim (or just not Western aligned) country has rejected it, and it's only primary proponents remain wingnut Western partisans who are currently enthusiastically supporting the actual genocide of Muslims in Palestine.

There's a reason that the only thing people still sprooking this conspiracy theory can do is desperately scream "CCP PROPAGANDA!" at anyone who disagrees with them. It's just this generations "IRAQ HAS WMDS!"

FlorianSimon ,

Go back to nazbear, revisionist tankie. There is proof available with a simple Google search.

And I can fault China for their actions just like I can blame the US for sponsoring the massacre in Gaza, which I vehemently reject. So your whack theory falls flat.

Most people except China know the truth about what happened in Xinjiang.

RaoulDook ,

Bullshit, I've already seen pictures and videos of it, a few years ago. Lots of us have too.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

are there?

is there credible evidence beyond pictures of random prisioners?

FlorianSimon ,

Yes, tankie. A simple Google Search will answer your dishonest question.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

all i see is articles from corporate us/uk media making extraordinary claims without extraordinary proof. nothing being said in my native tongue about it that isnt direct reference to the aforementioned outlets.

tell me, fascist, where is all that proof?

frezik ,

Tell you what. I'll deny there is any genocide in Gaza on the exact same basis that you're denying it for the Uyghurs. Does that work for you? If it really has to be "extraordinary", then it has to be applied equally.

Or is this not something like, say, UFOs or homeopathy where we actually need extraordinary evidence?

FlorianSimon , (edited )

There is evidence of significant mistreatment of Uyghurs in China. The poster is a deliberate liar covering the interest of the government of China. This is a matter for moderators, they're not talking in good faith.

frezik ,

I know. I specifically want to target this phrase "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", because I've noticed it being increasingly abused to ignore evidence.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

'significant mistreatment' is a big step down from genocide, even then I would love to see the evidence for it and adjust my view of the situation.

umbrella , (edited )
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

Not the same basis at all. You can't deny there is genocide in Gaza because there is extensive photographic and video evidence, aid openly going from the US to Israel, plenty of refugees seeking asylum in neighbouring countries, palestine voices talking about it and so on. Israel themselves seem pretty nonchalant about it. Similar but not equal evidence arose in Armenia, apartheid South Africa, nazi Germany and so on.

There are pictures of unidentified prisioners and some corporate media used to make pretty extraordinary (as in out of the ordinary) claims about them. No we don't need as much proof as UFOs, its not even on the same ballpark.

So I can repeat my reasoning with more context: Where is all that evidence of Muslims being genocided by the droves over there?

frezik ,

Nah, all I see are pictures from Russian outlets.

See how easy that was to pretend there is no evidence?

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

what do you even mean, should i even try to argue with this in good faith?

you can literally find publications from all around the world doing original hands-on journalism about it on the first few pages of google.

im literally asking for all that evidence on every post now. all i can find is, yet again, pictures of random unidentifiable prisioners with wild conspiracies about them being part of a secret genocide.

frezik ,

should i even try to argue with this in good faith?

No, you should go back to the cesspool of thoughtless praxis that is .ml.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

hahaahahahha k

FlorianSimon ,

Do not feed the troll. They're fighting for mindspace. Just answering the top-level comments denies them the right to exist without direct contradiction.

We know they're lying, and everyone really willing to challenge the idea will find enough on the Internet to find the right anwser. Now's the right time for you to disengage. No need to give a platform to those disgusting nazis.

Mission accomplished. More tankies banned.

A_Random_Idiot ,
@A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world avatar

they are from .ML, a major tankie instance, with major love for Pooty/Russia and Pooh Bear/China and irrational hatred for anything Not Russia/China. Soooo.. Yeah.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

preceding the points you mentioned, i stopped believing it when the league of arab nations went to investigate and found nothing.

brain_in_a_box ,

Yeah, it was very telling that the Westerners making the genocide accusations responded to that by basically saying "You can't trust them! Everyone knows Muslims are corrupt and dishonest!"

FlorianSimon ,

Go back to nazbear, revisionist tankie. There is proof available with a simple Google search.

And I can fault China for their actions just like I can blame the US for sponsoring the massacre in Gaza, which I vehemently reject. So your whack theory falls flat.

Most people except China know the truth about what happened in Xinjiang.

astral_avocado ,

tankie army has been activated

FlorianSimon ,

Tankie army got nuked into oblivion... Thank goodness.

Thirdborne ,

I still can't wrap my head around the case for genocide in China. Political and religious oppression is evident, but aside from grainy photos of some prisoners, but I haven't seen evidence of genocide. People are saying it though so... I guess it could be true?

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

It's not really shady now is it? There is no way solar can provide enough power for the entire country of china.

brain_in_a_box ,

Remember, to people like that "existing while Chinese" is shady in and of itself.

frezik ,

China's CO2 output is expected to fall in the coming year, and for structural reasons, stay that way for years to come.

https://energyandcleanair.org/analysis-chinas-emissions-set-to-fall-in-2024-after-record-growth-in-clean-energy/

frippa ,
@frippa@lemmy.ml avatar

China is doing something good: here's why it's bad.

endhits ,

China is still developing and allowing European countries and the US to pollute unchecked but clutch your pearls when China and other countries do the same is ideological.

This article is evidence that China is putting effort forward on renewables. Meanwhile, Germany is opening coal plants and the US can't get a handle on anything at all.

Fades ,

You can thank conservatives for that. They are beholden to fossil fuel interests so they attack everything else whether it be solar energy or ev

Tristaniopsis , (edited )

“JESUS WOULDN’TVE INSTALLED SOLAR PANELS!!11!1!1”

Ainiriand ,

hahahaha this is why I pay my internets

occhionaut ,

This was done with the express purpose of having the title of it. Its a vanity project that wont last 10 years.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

renewables are not vanity regardless of country

ryathal ,

China regularly does vanity projects to get positive headlines. Mass tree planting has been a popular one, the trees are generally all dead in a year or two, but they got the pro environment headline.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

yes, most replanted trees die regardless. forest coverage is up and thats what matters.

simonced ,

But they still have their crazy mines that polute right? No number of solar pannel will change anything if you don't stop what you are doing that polutes.
Same for all countries btw...

banneryear1868 ,

China pollutes so much because the biggest consumer economy in the world deindustrialized and outsourced manufacturing to them.

52fighters , (edited )

China pollutes so much because George HW Bush and Bill Clinton pushed American jobs to China so CEOs could make bank on huge profits on cheap labor, unsafe work places, and near zero environmental regulation that was impossible in the United States. We built China by disregarding worker rights and the environment and we are paying for it dearly.

Corkyskog ,

Why are we even bothering blaming politicians? Companies moved production over to cut costs and Americans wanted cheap shit. We could have all just bought made in America in the 80s if we cared, that would have been the time to make a stand while the transition was still happening.

52fighters ,

It is government's job to make sure international trade is done according to some basic rules, including labor and environment. Business' only metric is profits.

fruitycoder ,

The idea that businesses are only responsible to make profits is a newer one (can't say new it's been decades) and one that is trending away imho

bitwaba ,

You mean the boomers consumers are to blame?

Whelks_chance ,

You've never bought anything with "made in china" on the label?

bitwaba ,

Of course I have. Those were the best pencils for poppin' in elementary school.

banneryear1868 , (edited )

I'd say the 70s was the pivotal decade there with the oil crisis, the party was effectively over for the Democratic FDR post-war reality, and the economic anxieties resulting from deindustrialization began to have impacts in the rust belt. Mao's death effectively ended China's Cultural Revolution, and Deng implemented economic reforms to open the country to capitalism, with a huge industrial push and creation of economic zones. While labor power in the US had achieved a great deal in to the 60s, the Taft-Hartley Act from back in '47 kneecapped the ability for labor to fight the death of the US industrial manufacturing core. Because of course capital is gonna capital, and if they can't exploit workers as well domestically they can in some other country. Especially when they use their hegemonic influence to keep other countries open to private capitalist exploitation, like arming fascist coups in even moderately socialist countries in the global south. The global fight against communism is a backdrop to all this.

And here we are today as these routes of externalizing the exploitation necessary to maintain this standard of living and consumer economy dry up, and this economic reality turns inward.

RaoulDook ,

So did the US Presidents force China to not implement any environmental safeguards for their manufacturing? I don't think so.

Sure the corporations send the orders to China, and they pay for them, putting the money into China's economy. But China as a sovereign nation is still responsible for the pollution that it creates. They should implement strong environmental protection regulations to fix that.

I would prefer if American corporations sent their manufacturing orders to American factories, but I have no control over that or China's environmental regulations. They should both do better.

Darkhoof ,
@Darkhoof@lemmy.world avatar

China is installing more energy production than any other country. Wind, solar, coal and nuclear. They are installing everything.

JustMy2c ,

Can't wage war if you depend on oil ships

Darkhoof ,
@Darkhoof@lemmy.world avatar

Don't have to wage war if you don't depend on oil.

Rolder ,

US Population: 332 Million

China Population: 1.4 Billion

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • technology@lemmy.world
  • random
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines
    •