I was a Unity user for a long time, I watched them fumble after fumble, then merge with Iron Source, deprecated features with promises of the future, canceled plans, mire promises, pulling the rug out from under people, etc
I will never use a non FOSS game development ecosystem anymore. We should all force the industry to adopt this.
Wouldn't this, along with the other numerous talks on ECS that were made before Unity copyrighted it, be enough to challenge the copyright and have it revoked? Or is that not how copyright works?
The patent wouldn't be for any ECS; it would have to be for a specific implementation. The post may match the implementation, and invalidate the patent, but just being an ECS wouldn't be enough.
They did that to Parsec. Their SDK was once an openly accessible and amazing alternative for Steam Remote, which (In my experience) worked better and was easy to integrate into Unity.
Then Unity bought them, closed-sourced, and if you want access to the SDK, you have to ask for it and they have to approve it.
We tried that three years ago, mentioning that we're just a team of students working in school on a two-player only coop project that could really use a multiplayer we can't implement.
This is their response, and I'm still salty about it to this day:
Thanks for reaching out about Parsec! You mentioned in your comments that you were interested in SDK. SDK starts out at $1million. I think upgrading to our Teams plan might assist with the lag issues you're experiencing with your team.
Our Teams subscription starts art $35 per user.
Please let me know if you have any further questions you have.
This is the point of patents. Privatize technology that would benefit all and then ask rent from people using it. Then make money without doing shit, except for the odd enforcement (through lawsuits). Just feudalism updated to the modern age.
Yeah, I forgot to mention in my original post that ECS was extensively described and already in use by many private commercial engines (like Overwatch) at the time when the patent came out. Absolutely ridiculous patent that shows why the whole system is broken.
I got stuck organizing the migration at multiple companies. Believe me, I know how many people still use SVN (and CVS...)
And, in some cases, that is your "good reason not to" because of the disruption to development and needing to retrain devs. But it is also a migration that is well worth doing, if only because of how good Gitlab is.
I prefer Plastic way more than Perforce, from a brief experience I had with it on one project. Too bad it's been a victim of the Unity's "buy it, paywall it" strategy, where getting a license is mostly unaffordable for smaller team.
I'm a DevOps person by trade, and I have been playing a lot of Palworld. This is my worst nightmare and I have no idea how any team bigger than one person could have done anything without basic source control. Guess it just goes to show that nobody cares about the details as long as you ship.
My realisation long ago is that the games industry just doesn't work like the rest of the software engineering industry. The most cowboy engineer you've ever worked with is a voice of reason in the game dev industry.
Yeah, I have a colleague or two who have worked in that space. You could not pay me enough to work with their tools, conditions, and practices. Guess I'm in the wrong sub for that opinion, but I'm just a wanderer stopping by.
It turned out it's not true, they did use VCS. However, they mention a pretty horrifying story about VCS nonetheless.
They were a team without prior or professional gamedev experience, and they were using git. The first senior engineer, and first member of the team who actually was a professional game developer, was someone who ranomly contacted them due to liking Craftopia. But he didn't have experience with Unity, only Unreal, so they just said mid-development "Ok, we'll just throw away all we have so far, and we'll switch to Unreal - if you're willing to be a lead engineer, and will teach us Unreal from scratch as we go."
And then, they also mention this:
Surprisingly, [the new engineer] had no experience using the version control system git.
According to him, Perforce seems to be a better match for Unreal Engine.
But Perforce is too expensive. This is not the amount that a company like us would pay.
If you can't use Perforce, you should at least use svn instead of git.
Fully trusting his words, I also migrated my version control system from git to svn.
On the other hand, now that I think about it, SVN may actually be better for Unity projects than git is, at least in some areas.
One major issue with Unity and VCS are the scene and asset files. Trying to mere scene changes when multiple people have worked on the same scene is hell, to the point where it's usually better to just choose one changset and manually re-do the other. I know there is a unity merge tool for that, but since you have no idea what exactly it did, it's been pretty hit or miss.
SVN could solve that issue, since you can just lock files.
However, that still doesn't outweights the benefits of virtually every other feature of VCSes.
It's such a shame that Unity are greedy bastards that tend to buy out and heavily paywall amazing projects. I've worked with Plastic on one project, and it's amazing. I've really enjoyed the workflow, and the way the merging works is awesome. But then, Unity came and now it's unaffordable for anyone but larger teams.
Same with Parsec. Parsec has been an amazing alternative for Steam Remote, that had open source SDK and libraries to integrate directly into games. It was a perfect alternative for smaller teams that can't make proper multiplayer. And once Unity bought them, they've removed access to SDK only for companies that directly ask for it - which we (being a small student project done on our free time, that really could use MP since it's two player only local coop game) have done, mentioning that we're really just students and hobbyist.
They response? They basically said "Sure, we can give you access to the SDK, no problem. The first step is to pay us 1 000 000$ for it.". How can anyone be so out of touch?
I think the lesson is not that bucket-o-flash-drives is a better way; I think the lesson is that you can make a not-ideal process work completely fine if you just keep focused on the main point. People made successful software way before version control existed. It just makes it easier but that's all it does.
Linux was written up to about version 2.2 or 2.4 or thereabouts with no version control, just diff and patch and email. They invented git because at a certain point they wanted automated tools to make easier and more automated their way of working (which none of the suitable VCSs of the time were capable of), but it wasn't like they couldn't do the job until the tools existed.
Yes. The little word "suitable" was doing a lot of work in my explanation, it's true. BK was invented by a kernel developer for pretty much exactly the reasons I explained; I just glossed over the part of the route that went diff+patch -> BK -> git as a detour. I was actually a lurker on the linux-kernel mailing list while all this was going on and saw the fireworks in real time.
It's not exactly accurate to say BK withdrew support. Larry McVoy was such a pain in the ass about wanting to control how people used his product that the kernel developers felt the need to write their whole own solution as opposed to continue putting up with him. (Specifically, his pulling Andrew Tridgell's license for dubious reasons was the straw that broke the camel's back.) RMS actually wrote a sarcastic open letter thanking McVoy for providing a good lesson in why it's a bad idea to let your important stuff be dependent on proprietary software.
But the point remains; BK was invented by a member of the kernel community specifically because none of the existing solutions were usable for them, after more than 10 years of one of the biggest and most-distributed software projects in the world having no source control whatsoever.
Project zomboid had to start again after flat got burgled and laptop gone. Offsite backups are key for theft and fire. Version control is the easiest and cheapest way.
Someone always knows someone that drinks, smokes and eats crap and lives until mid 90s. Doesn't mean it's good health advice.
I love this so much :D That reads like something I'd expect from ZA/UM, but it also thankfully alleviates most of the major issues I had with the game, which I've already talked about here on Lemmy. I really liked the game, but there was a lot of red flags point to it being just a quick corporate cash grab, where they decided to basically re-skin heir previous game based on with as low effort as possible, to quickly sell it and cash in on the Pokemon thing. It just smelled with corporate greed, and that they did not really cared about the game too much.
But assuming this screenshot is true, I'd say that it's clear that it wasn't development driven and pushed by corporate greed, but really just a few of guys trying their best.
As a craftopia player palworld definitely feels like a bit of a reskin, but one that gives players a lot of what they wanted (mainly being able to explore freely in multiplayer mode which is severely limited in craftopia).
One element palworld leaves out is being able to create your own automated processes (like automating a farm with a series of conveyer belts, chests, and various machines). They say they’re still planning to develop craftopia so I am pretty excited to get the elegance of the pal world pets (which craftopia had too, but not as shiny) and the fun of automating your own homestead instead of setting up prefab stations.
I guess I'm a little confused, because wasn't their previous game Craftopia? I'm fairly certain that game sold relatively well for an indie game, at least 25,000+ copies if you base it off the All Time Peak Players on Steam Charts. For a small team of just a few people, that's a decent chunk of money (I think it sold at $30 around launch, so roughly $750k for 25k copies sold before Steam takes its cut). Craftopia came out in 2020, so they're saying they've learned virtually nothing in 4 years, not counting the dev time Craftopia had?
I enjoy Palworld, I think it's a fun game that has a lot of potential, but I'm not sure I'm fully buying into some of these responses.
As a side note, a lot of Craftopia people complain they abandoned that game, but looking on Steam it shows several recent updates across the last year, with one even coming out just yesterday and a huge one in November 2023 and a new roadmap posted in December 2023. So, I'm not really sure where those players are coming from regarding that.
Regardless, I'm looking forward to what Palworld grows into, as I really do think they have something rather special here. It's got a lot of rough edges and a couple core design problems, but those can eventually be addressed with some hard work. Hopefully they use the massive cash influx they've achieved with their recent success and hire some competent, seasoned developers to come in and get their shit in order. I'm not holding my breath too much, though (remember when we thought Valheim devs would spend their game success lottery money to massively boost that game's content and polish?).
Agreed on both points - I am skeptical they are such "amateurs", and it also doesn't necessarily seem like a cash grab considering how Craftopia is faring. It does seem like there's way too much buzz currently going on however, it's hard to say what is true or what is just an outright lie... hoping to learn more and see how this progresses in a few months. Also hoping they stay dedicated to improving palworld more than the valheim devs did (meaning barely anything, thank god for the modding community there doing what little they can to keep the game alive).
Idk craftopia has a pretty committed fan base and combined with being free on gamepass I’m not surprised at the buzz. Very curious to know the gamepass player #’s compared to steam. I wouldn’t be surprised if microsoft has done some promotional stuff for free though (to promote gamepass).
It turns out that most info from the screenshot is false, there's a better article that's written by the actual developer linked in the updated post.
He did talk about them not having a budget plan, which was a fairly long part of the article, but can be summed up like this:.
Figuring out budget is too much additional work, and we want to focus on our game. Our budget plan is “as long as our account isn’t zero, and if it reaches zero, we can always just borrow more money, so we don’t need a budget
He also further down mentioned actual numbers of how much went into the development:
Judging from Craftopia's sales, it's [the budget] probably around 1 billion yen...
Because all those sales are gone.
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