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Reddfugee42 ,

Same reason I don't like sony. They're too busy telling the people who buy the fucking products what they're allowed to do with them, and spend the rest of the time creating proprietary shit that traps their customers.

Hardware is great. Everything else is pretty much an abusive spouse.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

The hardware is locked down and proprietary. I wouldn't call it great.

Reddfugee42 ,

The hardware quality, seeing as I already spoke upon the programming and philosophy. Sorry, thought that was clear.

ArcaneSlime ,

Price is indeed part of it. If I'm paying that much I'm getting repairable and upgradable hardware.

I also hate their walled garden approach to everything. You can do X so long as apple has decided to allow you to do X. Things like no sideloading, no repair/upgradability, etc. I love Framework for instance and would like to see more stuff like it in the future.

And before you ask, yes I hate the other companies that do it too, they don't get a pass but we're talking apple right now.

As far as privacy goes, they're better than windows imo but not by much and it's only because windows is so bad, they still harvest your data but they target the ads instead of selling the data so others can target the ads. That is "better." I guess. I still prefer linux which doesn't even want your data (except anonymized bug reports if you opt in).

linkhidalgogato ,

over priced without a single good quality, aside from things that are personal preference like aesthetics and the layout of things and workflows which i also dont like but its whatever, by every objective measure imaginable apple is outdone by their competitors and their competition is cheaper, there is no point to buying anything apple unless u really like the personal preference stuff or ur an apple simp.

Ascend910 ,

They are gate keeping

Cyberjin ,
  • Closed ecosystem ( like side loading apps, hardware locked/issues, privacy settings like VPN, browser etc are limited).

Very Pro China, gives away people's privacy in China and are pro censorship, so they don't lose their precious supplier.

Just gonna add a few here, that's related to privacy & censorship

Apple removes Hong Kong protest app, Quartz news app following Chinese criticism
https://www.techspot.com/news/82284-apple-removes-hong-kong-protest-app-quartz-news.html

Apple’s Compromises in China: 5 Takeaways
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-privacy-censorship.html

Apple limited a crucial AirDrop function in China just weeks before protests
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/30/apple-limited-a-crucial-airdrop-function-in-china-just-weeks-before-protests.html

Apple has stored the data of thousands of customers on Chinese servers and censored apps
https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-data-china-censors-apps-nyt-2021-5?op=1

Apple made secret 5-year $275B deal with Chinese government
https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/12/07/apple-made-secret-5-year-275b-deal-with-chinese-government

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/18/technology/apple-whatsapp-china-app-store.html

sarchar ,

Anti-open(source), anti-open(standards) l, anti-consumer, anti-planet, anti-repair, anti-honest. What else do you need?

moorey ,

OS and hardware potential to best the best but always something stupid and limiting

airikr ,
  1. They have their own closed eco system
  2. They think money is key and throw large amounts at their consumers
  3. All source code is closed
  4. They are based in USA
  5. They love AI

Like what another person said, hate is a strong word. But when it comes to Big Tech, I'm all for the word.

Might have missed adding something to the list. Will add more if I have.

TheFonz ,

If not USA, where ought they be based? Costa Rica?

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

For example in a country with actual privacy laws that also get enforced... like most of the EU or several east Asian countries.

airikr ,

Anywhere in Europe so GDPR can be fully used and so Apple will not have the same power over their users as they have today.

muntedcrocodile ,

Cos i dont trust anything that says privacy but doesnt open source and provide reproducible builds.

tahoe ,

Their latest announcements are interesting because they say some of their privacy claims will be verifiable by independent firms (mainly when it comes to their custom built AI servers iirc). Is this actually worth something or is it just marketing fluff?

jjlinux ,

Independent firms hired by them? Right. I don't think "independent" means what they think it means.

kbotc ,

I mean, the Linux lmza exploit was found by a Microsoft engineer. Just because dollars exchange hands doesn’t mean the data provided is invalid.

Companies hire Jepsen to validate their code for example, and you’d be a damn fool not to accept their analysis.

gaylord_fartmaster ,

Are you under the impression Microsoft was being paid to find that exploit or something? How is that at all related?

That truly was an independent third-party finding an exploit, and do you know why it was possible? Because the code was open source.

Great point.

jjlinux , (edited )

That could very well be the case. However, I would have to be seriously gullible to believe anything those closed companies promote an "independent" party paid by them found, moreso if the findings only serve to push their proven lies forward for "public perception'.

In this case it's and actual independent party auditing open source code, that makes much more sense.

Just because dollars exchange hands doesn’t mean the data provided is invalid.

You are absolutely correct. What means the provided data is invalid is the fact that these companies are regularly found lying about how they handle our " privacy" or how secure they are. Just search for "Apple lied" and see all the instances and how they try to bury it all via PR bullshit.

I believe that, out of Amazon, Google, Meta, Microsoft and Apple, Apple is the lesser evil, but that means shit when they all do the same, just in different ways and at varying degrees.

muntedcrocodile ,

Who gives a fuck what the server was running when tested. Its not like large companies have ever designed software specifically designed to fool when being tested is it cough vw cough. Its worth something so its probs gonna be fine for the majority of people but never trust anythibg that isnt on hardware u control running verifiably open source code or e2e encrypted.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

In terms of privacy? What's the alternative? I'm sure that stock Android phones are way way worse in terms of privacy than any Apple device ever made.

Android is great in theory but the amount of pre-installed garbage, material design and Google / vendor powered spyware is way too much for my liking. I’m not saying that Apple doesn’t track things, because they do, but at least there’s no vendor garbage and you can go through the Settings and disable everything you don’t need, restrict Apps from running in the background etc. If you don’t upload your data into iCloud it will be way more private than the average Android phone.

Another thing I dislike about non-Apple phones is that, besides the Pixel and a few others, their bootloader and storage security is a joke, if someone gets your device you can assume they’ll get to your data.

GrapheneOS is great, it would be the one and only alternative to the mess that Android is however I can't daily drive that as it lacks features (nice things) I do want to have.

Ilandar ,

I’m not saying that Apple doesn’t track things, because they do, but at least there’s no vendor garbage and you can go through the Settings and disable everything you don’t need, restrict Apps from running in the background etc.

Did you make a mistake here? You are describing an Android device. You can even remove apps entirely from a device with a tool like Universal Android Debloater, and Android allows alternative app stores so you don't need to rely on a heavily limited selection of proprietary apps.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

That tools doesn’t always work, besides an iPhone comes clean out of the box. No constantly running spyware on the background, no Samsung/Xiaomi apps. Almost everything can be easily turned off under Settings unlike an Android where you’ll be forced into a 3rd party tool or a ROM like GrapheneOS if you want a clean experience.

When you buy an iPhone you’ll also have a guarantee that you won’t be installing malware, even with the new Alt Stores in Europe, all the apps are code-signed and require validation. You also are sure that your apps won’t be able to get system-wide access and run all over your data and battery like we see on Android.

Yes, the iPhone is less open but it provides a level of security, privacy and “cleanliness” out of the box that Android devices can’t just match. If you don’t have much time / interest / tech skills to mess around with a phone then the iPhone is the best phone you can buy.

Ilandar ,

an iPhone comes clean out of the box

How does it come "clean out of the box" when you literally just said it requires modifications to the settings to improve its privacy?

at least there’s no vendor garbage

Samsung and Xiaomi apps are vendor-specific and can be disabled, even without the use of UAD (which works fine, not sure why you're lying about that).

unlike an Android where you’ll be forced into a 3rd party tool or a ROM like GrapheneOS if you want a clean experience.

GrapheneOS is available as an option because Android has an open-source basis. Remind me which alternative privacy OS Apple allows third party developers to create for iPhone? Which iPhone did they allow users to install this imaginary privacy OS on?

You also are sure that your apps won’t be able to get system-wide access

Android applications have been sandboxed for several versions now.

TCB13 ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

How does it come “clean out of the box” when you literally just said it requires modifications to the settings to improve its privacy?

iOS comes with reasonable privacy defaults and blocks things such as apps running in the background for long time. Going into the settings is the extra-mile that still easier than having to install a cleaner ROM or deal with 3rd party tools.

Samsung and Xiaomi apps are vendor-specific and can be disabled, even without the use of UAD (which works fine, not sure why you’re lying about that).

I'm not lying about anything here, you know as well as I do that many vendors don't allow you to remove all of their Apps and most install permanently running daemons that you can't remove without UAD or other methods.

Android applications have been sandboxed for several versions now.

Yet the sandboxing isn't even comparable. One key aspect of the iOS sandbox is that is not only restricts filesystem access but also executes applications with way less privileges than Android does.

To complement the sandbox iOS apps are forced to use Apple's APIs in order to access user data (eg. Contacts and Photos) which will apply strict restrictions such as allowing you to limit at a system level what photos an application may access. Since all apps are required to be summited to Apple for review (even on Alt Stores) they'll enforce the usage of their APIs making it way harder to bypass restrictions.

Comparatively, on Android, you can install applications from random sources that typically resort to hacks to get around the sandbox restrictions and access more than they should.

omxxi ,

overpriced, jailed

hanrahan ,
@hanrahan@slrpnk.net avatar

Hates too strong a word for me, walled garden is unacceptable, completly unacceptable.

I get 1/2 my apps from F Drod.

RootBeerGuy ,
@RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

You got 2 apps on your phone???

...sorry, could not resist

vingetcxly ,

..

DmMacniel ,

Planned obsolescence: the other day I was setting up a refurbished MacBook air from 2017. It officially runs only up to macOS 12. I wanted to install apple's productivity suite iWorks (pages, keynotes, numbers) on it.

But the AppStore said I would need macOS 13 to download and install it. Why the eff doesn't it allow me to install an older version of those apps, and why does the 2017 not support macOS 13?

So I installed Open core Legacy Patcher, built a macOS 13 installer. Installed 13 with absolutely no issues and finally was able to install iWorks.

Any non versed or risk taking user would need to buy a newer Mac... good job apple.

Lem453 ,

Conversely I have a dell xps from 2018 that run very well with fedora atomic (kde). I upgraded the SSD, WiFi card and replaced the battery. Should easily last me another 5 years

DmMacniel ,

User repairability and serviceability should be(come) mandatory!

MalReynolds ,
@MalReynolds@slrpnk.net avatar

It's Intel, you too can have fedora atomic, and it'll likely last another 5 years.

DmMacniel ,

If it would be my device and not a gift I would, yeah :)

MalReynolds ,
@MalReynolds@slrpnk.net avatar

Ahh, not so sure how great a gift an insecure computer is, but I imagine you have your reasons...

DmMacniel ,

Uhm how would be it insecure?

MalReynolds ,
@MalReynolds@slrpnk.net avatar

OS hasn't been updated for how many years?

DmMacniel ,
  1. But the giftee can also update to Sonoma.
MalReynolds ,
@MalReynolds@slrpnk.net avatar

My bad, I didn't read 'built a macOS 13 installer', but now they must return for 'built a macOS 14 installer'.

DmMacniel ,

For some strange reason the control panel shows the update to macOS 14 even though when it was still on macOS 12 it didn't show any updates.

I told the giftee if they want to update that they please make a backup first.

Zerush ,
@Zerush@lemmy.ml avatar

https://i.vgy.me/hnTpC1.jpg https://i.vgy.me/Gy9Ah1.png

WolfLink ,
  1. There are cheaper 3rd party (and also cheaper 1st party) charging options
  2. That wheels kit is clearly aimed at big businesses and not something a normal consumer would buy

There’s plenty of real things to complain about Apple, no need to be petty like this.

Zerush ,
@Zerush@lemmy.ml avatar

Not only the wheels, take a llook on their store and it's hilarious prices for simple complements. Pitty that you must buy a charger apart for your phone which not even include it by default.

WolfLink ,

Sure, if I didn’t have 100 compatible chargers already from a variety of other products, and wasn’t willing to purchase 3rd party products, I’d have to buy a $20 adapter from Apple.

Also, I just checked and the latest Pixel comes with a cable but not a brick, same as the iPhone. Also Google’s cheapest power brick is $25, so it’s actually worse than Apple.

Got any real complaints?

Croquette ,

"Other company is worst so Apple is in the clear".Why are you shilling for a mega corp that doesn't give a shit about you?

WolfLink ,

If the worst thing Apple ever did was sell some optional components no one needs to buy to use their core products for more than you think is reasonable, Apple would be a fantastic company.

I’m not shilling a mega corp, I’m calling out petty bullshit. You’re the one making Apple look good by complaining about petty bullshit. Find something real to complain about.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

They kill off third party solutions shamelessly.

WolfLink ,

?

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

You cant use standard parts in there hardware

WolfLink ,

You certainly can use 3rd party chargers

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

No you can't really as lightning requires you to pay royalties to Apple. It isn't a open connector. You can't even get anything faster than USB2 speeds.

BobaFuttbucker ,

iPhones have USB-C now…..

Rai ,

“What even are facts”

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Only the most recent ones and everything but the "pro" model doesn't support anything but USB 2.

Not that it matters though as it is still a locked down ecosystem.

BobaFuttbucker ,

Fair, but now that they’re using USB-C that’s a temporary thing.

Also most people don’t need USB 3 speeds on their phones anyway because they don’t really plug them into anything that will take advantage of those speeds.

I realize some people do, and for those people the pro is the answer to that.

It seems like you just keep moving the goalpost to keep having a reason to hate Apple.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

I connect peripherals to my phone. You can't do that with a iphone

BobaFuttbucker ,

Yes. I can, and I do.

Why do you keep moving the goalpost?

ji17br ,

Feel like I travelled the world reading this thread with the amount of goalpost moving.

possiblylinux127 ,
@possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

Because I don't want an IPhone? I don't like Apple.

BobaFuttbucker ,

You don’t have to like them, you just keep revising the reason you hate them when it becomes clear your reason is wrong. You’re starting from the conclusion of “I don’t like Apple” and just working backwards. That’s what moving the goalpost is.

Ilandar ,

The problem with iOS is the lack of freedom and control you have as a user. Yes, Apple may be "better than Google" when it comes to some aspects of default privacy on their devices (being better than the worst is hardly something to brag about), but as a user the level of privacy you can achieve on your iPhone is always limited by the design of the operating system, where you are just a user with no permissions and no ability to modify or even replace the operating system entirely. You are locked into a proprietary ecosystem that you cannot get out of.

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