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Blackmist ,

Spying on the American people is a bipartisan issue.

If you want to change that, you'll need more than votes.

nekoeth0 ,

You think the government would ever get rid of powers like these? Of course not!

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Joe Biden, while loading a very large gun: "It would be terrible if Donald Trump ever got his hands on this."

Donald Trump, having loaded that same gun 4 years ago: "We have to retake the White House from this far-left communist maniac, because he's going to use that very large gun against White People!"

What a fucking racket.

warmaster ,

People think about Red vs. Blue, but the world is ruled by Purple.

chiliedogg ,

There's an exception to the rule that prohibits spying on religious groups.

Who wants to start an anti-surveillance religion?

rottingleaf ,

Something like the Tuareg idea of Islam, where you are obligated to kill anyone who eavesdropped on you?

Oh yeah

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

I don't think that'll save you.

https://peoplesworld.org/article/hearings-lawsuit-slam-bush-spying-defense/

NBC News obtained a secret 400-page Pentagon document that listed the Truth Project as a “credible threat” to national security. The Pentagon sent an agent to spy on the group’s first meeting at the Quaker Meeting House in Lake Worth in 2004, one of almost four dozen similar meetings nationwide infiltrated on Bush-Cheney orders.

The report revealed that the Defense Department spy operation kept tabs on 1,500 “suspicious incidents” such as distribution of antiwar leaflets at high schools, peace vigils and town hall meetings.

Eight people are active in the Truth Project, Hersh said, including Quakers, a 79-year-old grandmother and Hersh himself, partially disabled by a nerve disease that often confines him to a wheelchair.

Hersh added with a chuckle, “Yes, I guess we are a ‘credible threat.’ The truth is always a threat to those who are lying. We are always a threat to illegitimate and unjust powers.”

Rai ,

SLAMMIN back in ‘06!

SitD ,

the land of the safe ☺️

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You don't have to take your shoes off at the airport anymore if you're willing to tell the government a bunch of stuff about you though!

Car ,

Imagine if there were actual, tangible concessions for this. I bet if the administration moved to disestablish TSA citing how effective surveillance is, we'd have a lot of very confused celebration and "mission accomplished" banners

ZMonster ,
@ZMonster@lemmy.world avatar

And the free of the brave 🫡

phoneymouse ,

How is this even constitutional. Does the 4th amendment even exist?

bigkahuna1986 ,

Only if you're rich enough.

melpomenesclevage ,

yes I just wiped with it after taking a particularly loose israeli

why, do you prefer bidets?

Car ,

The government is defining this to be reasonable search. Crisis averted! Please scan your iris on the way out of this thread.

phoneymouse ,

What is unreasonable then?

far_university1990 ,

Spying on the government

Edit: politician to be more exact

OldWoodFrame ,

It's very funny that the workable compromise between "this is important for national security" and "this infringes on basic liberty" is "maybe we just do it for 2 years and see how we feel after that."

bitwaba ,

That's how I got my first girlfriend.

ColeSloth ,

It's always permanent. The short time period is just for the sake of getting it voted in.

jdeath ,

APAB. Fucking bullshit!

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

So it seems that there are indeed issues where "both sides" agree.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

The worst legislation that gets passed is typically the bill every Congressman agrees on. If you didn't have to fight through six committees and an extended filibuster, you can assume it must have been a Christmas Tree of kickbacks and crimes.

pressanykeynow ,

From the outsider perspective those aren't sides but teams going to the same goal with slightly different tactics.

ryven ,
@ryven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) said he voted against the reauthorization "because it failed to include the most important requirement to protect Americans' civil rights: that law enforcement get a warrant before targeting a US citizen."

Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point

Max_P ,
@Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me avatar

because it failed to include the most important requirement to protect Americans' civil rights: that law enforcement get a warrant before targeting a US citizen

So, he wants the government to dig dirt on US residents, but only if they're immigrants or temporary workers.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yeah, the Constitution protects anyone on American soil, not just citizens.

GiveMemes ,

Not since the patriot act.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Talk to the interned Japanese or the community organizers in the Cobbs Creek neighborhood bombed by the Philly PD. It wasn't just starting with the Patriot Act.

The US has a long and storied tradition of claiming "These people don't count" when enumerating civil rights.

moon ,

Well he would have to be against warrantless searches if his father is the Zodiac killer

nexguy ,
@nexguy@lemmy.world avatar

Non-sensationalized summary from the article:

Although Section 702 authorizes electronic surveillance of non-US people overseas, the official summary of the reauthorization bill notes that "information about US persons may incidentally be acquired by this type of surveillance and subsequently searched or 'queried' under certain circumstances.”

The reauthorization bill imposes some new limits on data collection. For example, FBI personnel must obtain prior approval from an FBI supervisor or attorney before making queries about US people. But this provision has an exception allowing such queries without prior approval if "the query could assist in mitigating or eliminating a threat to life or serious bodily harm."

There are also some new limits on queries involving elected US officials, political candidates, political organizations, media organizations, journalists, and religious groups. There is a prohibition on "the involvement of political appointees in the approval process for such politically sensitive query requests," and a requirement that the FBI director "establish consequences for noncompliant querying of US person terms, including zero tolerance for willful misconduct.”

return2ozma OP ,
@return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

"this is why it's good" meme

GluWu ,

Zero tolerance you say?

the FBI had a 96% compliance rate for FISA queries, a 14% improvement from OIA’s first baseline audit

Can't wait for those 4% of queries to be prosecuted. I hope we can get better though. I only want 2% of what the FBI requests to be illegal.

doingthestuff ,

Everyone hates Rand Paul but he voted no on this, as did others on the left and the right. Fuck fascism and fuck left authoritarianism.

Zorque ,

Rand Paul votes no on anything that allows the government to do anything. I doubt he even reads the bills.

PsychedSy ,

A principled stance is a principled stance.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

All the people who wanted to maintain segregation (i.e. Rand's father) had principled stances. Should we admire them?

PsychedSy ,

What principle would lead someone to support segregation?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

In Rand's father's case? Libertarian nonsense about not being forced by the big bad government to stop with the 'whites only' bullshit.

PsychedSy ,

Ah. Free association is what it'd be called by libertarians. I see what you mean now.

Was he against government-forced segregation?

I'm kind of bad in these situations (from a libertarian perspective) because I tend to refuse to worry about things I like the outcome of.

If you and I had incredibly similar views on how people should behave, and we both put time and money into achieving those outcomes, but I didn't support using violence (libertarian reductionist view of government), does that mean I support things I'm ostensibly fighting personally?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

He would have opposed the Civil Rights Act "because of the property rights element." See? Principled stand.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/91287-paul-says-he-would-have-opposed-1964-civil-rights-act/

PsychedSy ,

I'm talking pure theory/ethics now. What I'd support politically will vary.

I agree with free association and, to some degree, property rights. I don't think my "yeah, fuck racists" stance is principled.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Okay, but we aren't talking about you.

Zorque ,

Or a fanatical one.

PsychedSy ,

Is consistency fanatical?

I'd call it radical for sure.

pressanykeynow ,

I doubt he even reads the bills.

To be fair it's probably the same for Biden.

zarkanian ,
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

If it's authoritarianism, it ain't left.

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

Tankies sadly exist in our side, but I don’t think there’s a single one in US politics.

Zorque ,

You can call yourself a leftist without actually espousing ideals reflecting it.

Tankies aren't leftist, they're leftist cosplayers.

rottingleaf ,

I actually watched recently a few videos on YT by Klim Zhukov (in Russian, naturally ; he's a Tankie and a historian by education), and I'm not so certain.

I may even agree than in some things they are more orthodox-Marxist than most western left movements.

Now, by Tankies I mean Stalinists here.

melpomenesclevage ,

tankies killed all the communists, then got named tankies for still defending killing all the communists again.

mannycalavera ,
@mannycalavera@feddit.uk avatar

Hayak would like a word...

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

What leftist vote for this? And don’t give me that shit about Dems being left.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yeah, of my two reps (Utah), the one I dislike more voted no on this (Sen. Mike Lee), and the one I kinda like (Sen. Mitt Romney) voted yes. I'm not sure how to feel about this.

melpomenesclevage ,

there are no left authoritarians in office.

liberals are not leftists. haven't been since 1848.

doingthestuff ,

Any liberal who supports disarming civilians is a left authoritarian.

melpomenesclevage ,

I disagree, why do you insist on associating libs with the left?

fuckthepolice ,

Only the fringe lunatics think it's even possible to disarm a population. Far lefties like myself realize the power that small arms represent in the fight against fascism. Marx said to arm up.

melpomenesclevage ,

fuck that dude about so much, but yeah, he wasnt wrong about everything.

that means anti armor and anti drone weapons, too!

Zorque ,

Marx also assumed that revolution eventually leads to a communist utopia.

Thus far they have only led to authoritarian regimes. Even Cuba is little more than a benevolent dictatorship.

Weapons are a good way to combat other weapons, not ideology.

rottingleaf ,

Dunno why 1848, but those students on the streets of Vienna whom "dear father field marshal" Radetzky hanged on many lanterns were not leftist. They were pretty republican-nationalist, right liberal that is.

melpomenesclevage ,

are you... are you defending the original incident that lead to the term 'tankie'? impressive.

rottingleaf ,

I don't get your thought process. The original incidents were Soviet interventions in Hungary and Czechoslovakia.

melpomenesclevage ,

sorry when I hear about a name from that language family I I st assume. I ignore most soviet history and as much american history as I can because its stupid and can be summarized 'and then they figured out how to make even worse decisions! hooray!'

archomrade ,

Lmao when Democrats do a bad thing it's left authoritarianism lol

Burn_The_Right ,

Neoliberals are conservatives. Always have been. By all international standards, the Democrat party is a conservative party and the Republicans are a more conservative party. We don't currently have a viable left/progressive party.

Aceticon ,

The entirety of the left-of-center in the US is a handfull of progressives, at most.

By international standards Biden is hard-right, Trump is far-right.

This shit is full-on rightwing authoritarianism.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

And yet I still hate Rand Paul.

Hitler loved dogs.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Dang it, one of my senators voted for this nonsense.

masterofn001 ,

ExcludeNodes {US}

altima_neo ,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

Well at least my rep was trying to fight against that shit.

givesomefucks ,

Can't wait for people to tell me how this is actually a great thing and we need to cheer for this...

chakan2 ,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

Well...Trump didn't sign it...It must be good right?

Aolley ,

don't be stupid.

Apthianos ,

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/19/trump-surveillance-extension-351136

queue ,
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

"But Biden had to sign the Bush era anti-terrorism surveillance state bill! Think of how many of those spies can now be gay or women! REAL Progress is baby steps to where your constitutional rights are violated by minorities and women!!

It's genuinely amazing how we can't push for any bills for raising the federal minimum wage, protecting abortion, protecting queer healthcare, but we can ban wearing hoodies on the senate floor, [passing spying bills on par with China, and then bundling a TikTok ban with aid to Ukraine and Israel.

Sure is great living in a democracy. Where there's only one "valid" option, and he still sucks shit.

Aceticon ,

Here are some " " to put around democracy.

You're welcome.

rottingleaf ,

Sucks shit because he's the only valid option.

melpomenesclevage , (edited )

yeah, see, you have to vote for Joe biden or you might get fascism. can't have that uncertainty of a third party fluke candidate winning.

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