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geography082 ,

The problem would be the push they are doing on corporations to move to 11. I know multiple cases they are struggling to do so because the mess windows 11 does with other custom applications.

NeoNachtwaechter ,

What a joke 🤣

BlackEco ,
@BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com avatar

I waited until the last day of support to upgrade from Windows 7 to 10, I plan on doing the same with Windows 10.

With Windows 10 and 11 Microsoft has been gradually removing control from the user's hands and I'm still miffed about that.

iopq ,

I upgraded to 10 and my old laptop with a hard drive became unusable. I got multiple years of Linux from it instead of trashing it.

BlackEco ,
@BlackEco@lemmy.blackeco.com avatar

Yeah, modern Windows and HDDs don't mix well. I refurbished multiple laptops and each time just throwing in a cheap SSD (and cleaning the cooler + sometimes reapplying thermal paste) would breathe new life into them.

snownyte ,
@snownyte@kbin.social avatar

That's why I scope out for old laptops from time to time. It's pointless to hope for it to run today's Windows OSes. But to write it off as completely useless is stupid when you can throw any desired Linux distro on it.

Though I have noticed that Ubuntu does get harder to run on old laptops.

snownyte ,
@snownyte@kbin.social avatar

It's been a gradual process and I do say that it started with Windows XP. People look at Windows XP with loads of nostalgia, but they conveniently forget how aggravatingly annoying it was with how often it kept prompting you about what you're about to run. Like with the greyed out screens, asking whether you're administrator and all that. It started with Windows XP.

And it has gotten worse since to where now this system you've paid $900 for that happen to have Windows pre-installed or maybe you bought that separately for another $200, so this $1,100 system you have. You can't control it all.

cRazi_man ,
@cRazi_man@lemm.ee avatar

I keep checking videos on YouTube from time to time about whether it is worth upgrading to Win 11 now (which people keep releasing regularly). Keep deciding it's not worth changing.

Then I sold my laptop and had to use my Steam Deck for a couple of months. At that point I thought if I'm going to learn a different OS, then I might as well go all the way and jump over to Linux. Been very happy with OpenSUSE ever since.

ichbinjasokreativ ,

Tumbleweed, leap or slowroll?

RiQuY ,

I'm pretty sure he is using Tumbleweed.

cRazi_man ,
@cRazi_man@lemm.ee avatar

Tumbleweed....and Kubuntu before that....and EndeavourOS before that....and ZorinOS before that.....and Linux Mint before that.....and Ubuntu before that.

But I've finally found Tumbleweed to be the OS to stick with. Although I do sometimes feel tempted to go back and try EndeavourOS now that I know more about Linux.

MrVilliam ,

This was my general takeaway. My laptop is showing it's 9ish year old age considerably. I picked up a used Steam Deck and I actually love everything about it except that it's really not powerful enough to replace my laptop. I'm interested in building a desktop, and SteamOS taught me that modern Linux is not super complicated, and now I know that it's not a huge pain in the ass to troubleshoot because the community isn't nearly as toxic as I was expecting. So unless I learn of an even better distro for general use, gaming, streaming, audio recording, and video editing, all for somebody who is experienced with Windows and not much else, I'm leaning towards Nobara.

The only real hurdle I have is that it's hard to justify dumping like $1200-1500 on a computer when I already have a PS5, Steam Deck, and gaming laptop. I really don't need it.

cRazi_man ,
@cRazi_man@lemm.ee avatar

Depends on what you want to do. I sold my 2 year old gaming laptop and managed to spend 2 months getting amazing bargains on secondhand parts to make an amazing gaming PC. The Steam Deck and that does a great job of streaming the more demanding games from the PC.

The 9 year old laptop might be surprisingly functional if you use something like ZorinOS on it.

I'll be honest, troubleshooting is still a gigantic pain in the ass sometimes. But if you can get over the hill of setting up the OS, then you're good to go. The thing that's made Linux bearable for me is AI. If I have a problem then I write it out in Copilot or ChatGPT, and it usually gives me the solution on the first try with a command o can just paste into terminal.

Fisk400 ,

I literally can't install it even if I wanted to. If they removed that requirement the rollout would be the same as any other update.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

I wasn't able to when it launched, because my CPU was too old (Ryzen 1700). I have since upgraded to a Ryzen 5600X, which I think works, but I honestly don't think I'll bother checking. I'm on Linux 100% except for the one or two times a year that I boot Windows to check on something. Linux doesn't have silly requirements, I just get more features if the hardware exists.

tobogganablaze ,

I'm so glad I'm stuck with a "your hardware doesn't support windows 11" message.

SirEDCaLot ,

Just disable TPM in your BIOS if you have that option. Win 11 needs modern TPM so it won't upgrade you if you don't have one.

Passerby6497 ,

"Needs" lol

It's just in there to sell more hardware. Afaik, 11 does nothing that actually requires the newer tpm.

SirEDCaLot ,

Yeah people who really wanted 11 back in the beginning found an easy process to bypass the check during the install. 11 works fine without it.

Codilingus ,

If you make the bootable USB drive with Rufus, a little window pops up asking if you wanna remove some of the bullshit, such as TPM and secure boot requirements.

Imgonnatrythis ,

I think this is a pretty big deal and they are shooting themselves in the foot with these unnecessary restrictions.

sexual_tomato ,

I disabled my TPM in BIOS so Windows would never upgrade

snownyte ,
@snownyte@kbin.social avatar

Same, out of curiosity, I checked my system for that and got the message.

Even if I didn't, I'm not going to sit around all day as 64GB of "required" stora- oh I mean bloatware to install on my system.

Windows used to function fine with 2GB of storage. It does NOT need 64GB and Microsoft can get fucked.

LordWiggle ,
@LordWiggle@lemmy.world avatar

My win10 upgraded without asking. Win11 is horrible, I'm going to wipe and reinstall win10 again. As soon as update support stops, it's Linux for me. Screw Microsoft. They even added ads as notifications and they are going to put ads in the start menu. Wtf! This is the end of windows, I'm sure.

realitista ,

I'm using StartAllBack and have found it to be a rather nice experience.

LordWiggle ,
@LordWiggle@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah but that's only UI issues. It also runs much slower then win10. There are massive performance issues. Next to that I have less rights to do stuff. Few days ago I wasn't allowed to forget Bluetooth devices for example. Even in control panel bt settings. After XP it all went downhill with accessibility of settings. Fancy setting pages with restricted options. Why, what's wrong with control panel? I know it's still there, and we still have WIN+X but it's getting placed behind more sub menus and restrictions and more and more is being removed to make it idiot proof. But it's also locking me out. I want full control over my machine. No one tells me what I can and cannot access on my device. Fuck Microsoft.

realitista ,

I made all my accounts local only and I haven't noticed these issues. I do still use control panel and the old user manager by default, so maybe that's why?

I also used a special installer which allows for local only accounts out of the box and does some other changes. Maybe that's why I'm having a better experience. This is the guide I followed. Follow the guide for Rufus.

LordWiggle , (edited )
@LordWiggle@lemmy.world avatar

I used something similar for win10. A stripped down version without all the booking dot com and Xbox bs pre-installed. Only local account. But it auto upgraded to 11. Time for format C.

realitista ,

For me I'm happier with my computer since the XP days with these mods. It's fast and responsive and doesn't give me shit. It's been only a couple months since I reinstalled it, so time will tell, but so far so good.

noodlejetski ,

during the great Mastodon migration in 2022 I saw someone post how they head to unlearn scrolling past every 6th post or so on their timeline, because that's how the Twitter app was displaying the ads. I wish Microsoft the Very Bad and daydream about year of the Linux desktop, but something's telling me people will get used to ads on Windows the same way.

LordWiggle ,
@LordWiggle@lemmy.world avatar

I had the same experience when switching from the reddit app to Boost. When Boost stopped working for reddit, I couldn't stand it so it was bye bye reddit my entire pc connection is ad free. There's a filter in my router, strong filter in my vpn and I have blockers. I do not watch streaming services, I download everything through usenet with an automated system on my NAS. I have no TV. I order groceries online, I never enter a store. My phone has filters too. I live completely ad free. But then Microsoft comes, and says "fuck you, here's an ad!" on MY machine. Without consent. I was boiling.

MrVilliam ,

You're definitely right. Facebook got super shitty and most people didn't leave. Netflix got super shitty and most people didn't leave. YouTube got super shitty and most people didn't leave. Amazon's shitty video service got even more shitty, but Fallout was about to come out, so most people didn't leave and I bet they actually got more subscribers (but idc enough to look it up). It seems like most people have accepted that things just get shitty over time. Or maybe they're just not noticing the shitty changes? Idk. It's hard to look at our projected trajectory as a species and be left with much hope. There's good in this world, but it seems like none of it is coming from companies.

themoonisacheese ,
@themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works avatar

On one hand I agree that most people probably won't change. On the other, the difference between an OS and websites is that windows has very little exclusivity left. If you want to read Facebook content, you go on Facebook. If you want to watch fallout, you go on prime. If you want to watch long-form content (relative to TikTok), you go to youtube.

If you want a good OS, you're not forced by Microsoft to exclusively use windows. There are some pockets (like Xbox game pass games) but overall the average user could realistically switch to debian, Ubuntu or mint and not actually materially change what they do and watch on their computer, whereas if you decided to stop using Netflix, yes the experience of watching would be better but you wouldn't actually be experiencing the same content.

MrVilliam ,

I don't disagree with your point, but I think that the most important variable is how receptive the average person is to change. It takes a lot of discomfort for most people to want to make a significant change. Most people probably won't even recognize that Windows sucks because it's what they're familiar with and they probably attribute general tech improvements and new software with the OS because they don't know any better. So they see it as better in a lot of ways and only worse in a couple of ways. They probably also generally think that the only alternative is an overpriced Apple product. It wasn't until YouTube started cracking down on ad blockers that most people were even aware of the existence of ad blockers lmao. So I'm sure your average Windows user thinks that Linux means programming gobbledygook in cmd.exe and they would rather scroll Facebook. People are dumb and uninterested in the discomfort of learning things. Even if what they're learning is that there's not much discomfort because there's not much new to learn. You have to trick them by sneaking vegetables into their food. "You have a Samsung phone. That runs Android. Android is Linux. See, you're already using it." It's a fucking shock to me that Windows phones never took off.

But maybe the most important factor to Microsoft is the business world. It's obviously not unanimous, but a shitload of companies rely on the Office suite. Switching to something different overnight might be easy for some workers, but I'd assume a massive disruption in productivity until everybody got acclimated. There would probably need to be some kind of canned training thing to help workers with the transition, which would cost more money. In general, companies would run a cost-benefit analysis and ultimately decide that it really doesn't make much business sense to make that change when things are fine as is. Because in reality, Windows is fine. It's not bad enough for a business to burden a rocky quarter just because of some ads and a little jank.

The bad news for Microsoft however is that privacy and security could be getting called into question. Some businesses here and there might get worried about that, but it's the big Department of Defense fish that will drop them overnight because it's a matter of national security. In the same way that government devices banned tiktok years before considering a nationwide ban, government devices would not hesitate to dump Microsoft. Their greed could be their downfall. They're okay so long as the government and their big contractors keep running Windows.

snownyte ,
@snownyte@kbin.social avatar

You've hit the nail on the head.

Who's opinion matters more to Microsoft? Businesses, Governments and Enterprises. If they lose that audience, they're up shit's creek.

They don't care if even 100,000 disgruntled Windows users collectively gripe about where Windows has gone in direction. Because Microsoft's main concern is no longer appeasing the casual and power users. If you're a business partner or a corporate body, you have their attention more.

Microsoft just knows that a large majority of users will still be there, using their OSes regardless of how much of a dumping they all take. Whether it's 11, 10, 7 or even WinXP, they've got a majority in their ecosystem. And those users are terrified of change.

Hell, I used to have been that Windows user who was scared of change and intimidated by Linux. The issue is that, you just need to dip first, not dive head first all the way. Mac is just simply an extension of Linux. Android as mentioned is an extension of Linux. Windows is it's own entity surrounded by different Linux versions and forms.

iopq ,

I didn't leave Facebook, I just stopped using it. You can see their monthly active users are not going up, and sometimes going down. Only Instagram is growing

I_Miss_Daniel ,

Monthly active robots...

snownyte ,
@snownyte@kbin.social avatar

Reddit got more shitty, but as expected from Reddit users, they all made a big deal about it for a month but still continued to be users. With how stupid easy it is to make an account on there, I'm sure most just pretended to delete their accounts and just made more as an excuse to 'start anew'.

Like wow, bravo, what revolution, guys. You sure showed Spez. /s

I guess on one hand, I kind of get it. We're all going to get to a point in our lives where we're so old that we can't care about every little thing before we get there. Then before we're going to die from age or whatever, some would realize how wasted of a time their lives have been when they've spent getting angry about every little thing to do something about it.

So it's probably why so many people just come to accept things as is. They're going to die anyways so mind as well enjoy what's here if possible before we get there.

However, on the other hand, you know it isn't as bad to try to be some change to the world for a better future so that nobody would have to deal with the same shit one has dealt with. And maybe if people were a little more resourceful and took cues from people who have thought better with wisdom, they'd realize that being overly angry isn't the solution. Don't be angry, get crafty.

I'd like to think that this is the kind of mindset most may have.

MrVilliam ,

I mostly agree, except that I'm here because I left reddit. I can't speak for anybody else, but you can see my history here and compare it to my history there. It's been almost a year now and I'm not going back.

I'd like to think that enough people will get pissed off enough to make real change happen, but people think they have too much to lose and don't see how much they have to gain. In general, I mean. Windows doesn't really fucking matter lol. Netflix doesn't really fucking matter. The realistic course of action is to just vote with our wallets and hope that discourages overly shitty practices from these companies.

Speculater ,

I'm kind of salty how fucking easy it was for Reddit to just ignore the problem. I left them for here and haven't gone back unless it was a Google result.

The majority of people "stayed just for the niche community" then just assimilated and stopped coming back to Lemmy.

snownyte ,
@snownyte@kbin.social avatar

Because the whole third-party fiasco was treated as just the 'cool thing' to do. This is Reddit we're talking about here, the kind of site that sits, thousands to a few million users who all think they're one and two steps ahead of everyone else. The kind who think they know everything inside and out, 4-D chess .etc

So of course they'd be the kind to take something of a situation as to what happened when third-party development got gutted out and treat that as just a trend.

If that incident and the fact that Reddit now is an IPO hadn't changed enough minds, nothing will. They love the attention and any attention they get as well as the karma-farming validation whenever they complain about how "reddit sucks".

No, it's all for show. They're whores.

Viking_Hippie , (edited )

I'm testing out Tiny11, which is basically Windows 11 without the bloat, and so far the experience is great!

My secondhand laptop from 2019 went from taking two minutes or more each to boot and to shut down in the full Microsoft monstrosity to less than 10 seconds for either in Tiny11 and the general performance is also dramatically improved!

LordWiggle ,
@LordWiggle@lemmy.world avatar

Sounds good, I'll go check it out :)

grue ,

(I'm speaking generally, not criticizing you personally.)

It's amazing the great effort to which people will go to try to compensate for Microsoft's abusive behavior, often while simultaneously claiming that switching OSs is too much effort.

Projects like Tiny11 are the computer equivalent of "oh, this black eye? I got it falling down the stairs and definitely not because my partner hit me."

Folks get mad about Linux evangelism, but it's really no different than friends saying "leave his ass; you're too good for him!"

Viking_Hippie ,

To be fair, alternatives like Tiny11 are much more user friendly for someone used to Windows than going all the way to Linux.

Especially if gaming is a big part of what you use your computer for and you prefer to do as much as possible with just the mouse rather than typing in various complex commands, both of which is the case with me.

Windows 11 is too bloated and otherwise enshittified and making Linux do what I want it to is too much of a hassle.

Tiny11 is better for my personal use case on both accounts and, like with Linux, I'm not rewarding Microsoft's sleazy behavior by using it.

kaputter_Aimbot ,

Have you ever tried any modern Linux desktop distribution?

I had a bad experience with Ubuntu and the likes about 10-15 years ago (as a daily driver for my desktop, that is). But a lot has changed since then.

Maybe take a look at Pop_OS or Linux Mint. I'm using the latter, it took less than 10 minutes to install and works out of the box! Everything else comes via it's "app store".

There is no need for the console, so you don't need to type any commands!

Even my parents are using it. And gaming works great.

Viking_Hippie ,

Have you ever tried any modern Linux desktop distribution?

Yeah, the last one I tried was Lubuntu Jammy Jellyfish a few months ago.

Pop was the one I tried first, but the ancient laptop I was using at the time couldn't hack it, so I went with the ultra light weight version of Ubuntu in stead.

Very little worked out of the box and almost everything took a lot more fiddling and searching and asking for advice to get to work. For example, I never did manage to make bottles work after over a week of trying on and off, doing exactly what the documentation and advice told me to.

I haven't gotten to the gaming part of my Tiny11 test, so if it fails that, I might give Pop another chance now that I have a much newer one, but Lubuntu is definitely not as hassle free as Linux enthusiasts keep promising that all their favorite distros are..

Emerald ,

Oh man Lubuntu takes me back. I used it back when it still used LXDE, which was actually relevant back then.

clay_pidgin ,

That's not been my experience with Debian as my daily driver for the last few months. I'm in the console, sorry "Konsole" every few days having to adjust something or install a program that isn't in the store or available as an app image. It's working, but I get KDE crashes once or twice a week and the microphone just doesn't work sometimes.

It's still much faster than my win10, though.

Grandwolf319 ,

My win10 upgraded without asking

Oh snap, so the only thing that stopped mine was because it was not compatible?

Wtf Microsoft!!!

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