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taanegl ,

Like if proton was a VPS kind of thingy, even like some form of managed mail service through a docker container or something, where the user had control? That would be nice. But even then, who's to say they aren't monitoring the mail communication from the other end of that? You can't really trust any of these mail providers, because they simply have too much control over the days.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

Is there a solid alternative that isn't as prohibitively expensive as Proton? It's like, stupid expensive, even for basic email service with very small storage

padge ,

I liked Windows Mail for its simplicity but between the ads and the tracking for Outlook I guess I'm moving to something else. Now I understand why my mail accounts give Oauth or temporary passwords to external clients, because otherwise M$ would have them.

SuperSpruce ,

This is why I don't get excited when I hear some software that I already use and works fine gets an update. More often than not the update makes the software worse.

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

It used to not be the case, but as of the past decade or so, it seems like more and more software is getting lower quality or substantially bug ridden. Not just on windows either. It's everything now.

Back in the day, each update used to fix bugs, add genuinely useful features, and were eagerly anticipated. Now, I get to do lovely things like RMA a bricked steam deck on stable channel or listen to New Teams' ringer doubling, once before a call is picked up, and ringing again after the phone is answered. I wish I was joking for either of these.

EmperorHenry ,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

That's nothing we didn't already know.

rustydrd ,
@rustydrd@sh.itjust.works avatar

For a few years, I had hope that Microsoft would become a respectable user-oriented, even FOSS-friendly company, but they finally seem to have settled on AI enshittification as their main business model.

bad_alloc ,

Change to Linux on main PC when?

rustydrd ,
@rustydrd@sh.itjust.works avatar

15 years ago. But I still gotta use Windows at work.

mochi ,
@mochi@lemmy.zip avatar

When gaming is 100% the same on Linux you'll see more people pick it up.

lemmyvore ,

It's already happened — 90% of games will work flawlessly now on both Windows and Linux. It's just that the remaining 10% are different on each platform, for various reasons. Pick your poison. Usually it's those 10% that will dictate the decision for you — but the OS itself has stopped making a difference for gaming years ago.

CaptPretentious ,

To be fair, Microsoft is a big company with various divisions. Parts of Microsoft are doing really great work in the FOSS area I would say, but really only if you're a developer. As a general user... they do kind of suck yet.

1371113 ,

WSL was a good start, change comes slowly to monoliths but they always have shareholder value as their defining principle so it’s a real tightrope.

phoenixz ,

FOSS friendly company

I'm not sure what you are smoking but you're high as balls dude. If there is any company that has as it's motto "fuck and destroy open source" and as slogan "fuck everything for money", then it's Microsoft.

Microsoft paid SCO to make false claims against Linux in an attempt to destroy Linux and extort large companies away from Linux. The destroy part failed, but they got multiple large companies to steer away from Linux. Normal people would go to jail for that, Microsoft execs not so much.

werefreeatlast ,

Totally agree with that. MS is an evil fuck company hellbent on destroying Linux from the inside. But Linux is not a container or box or thing one can just destroy. It's been fun watching them support Linux to try to infiltrate something. They haven't realized that there's nothing to infiltrate.

rottingleaf ,

They haven’t realized that there’s nothing to infiltrate.

There's always something. The whole point of infiltration is that it shouldn't be detected until the frog is edible.

Ridiculing one's enemy is just always the wrong thing to do, no exceptions.

werefreeatlast ,

They're latest strategy is to be FOSS.... Ohh look at us! We can run Ubuntu from Windows now! We give money to Foss for development. Let's give foss GitHub so they can store all their software safely with us!..blah blah bam! Let's make this free software not free anymore...let's fire these key Foss people...let's make GitHub hard to access. Microsoft is a sneaky bastard for sure.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

I tried the new outlook for about 30 seconds. They injected ads into my mail.

Instantly uninstalled it.

Thermal_shocked ,

It was so broken when I tested it that if you dragged a folder two levels deep it would disappear. Had to roll back to get that folder out.

balazs ,

I hope you changed your email account passwords after. What many people don’t realise is that when you fill out the “configure your email account” form, the details aren’t kept local to your PC. You are giving Microsoft the login details to your email account. This is a major departure from how Outlook and Windows Mail used to work.

So you’ve uninstalled the app, but how can you ensure they aren’t still polling your emails?

RememberTheApollo_ ,

I use the old outlook, so M$ still has my info.

Ashelyn ,

I mean, if it's an Outlook email and not from another provider using Outlook as a frontend, it's part of Microsoft's ecosystem anyways. Unless your whole inbox is encrypted (and it's probably not if it's not being advertised as such lol), it's on Microsoft's servers and they have control over it anyways.

That said, definitely change the password if you just used Outlook as your email client at some point!

balazs ,

Well that’s the thing. The new Outlook app is now the default email program on Windows. So you’ll have people setting up their Fastmail, Gmail, GMX and countless other mailboxes on it, just like they always have.

Except this time your password is being given to Microsoft, not just the email app on your computer.

Ashelyn ,

That makes sense. I always just used my email from the browser unless there's something specific I need from an email client or the setup is employer-provided/mandated, but I guess a lot of people just go with whatever is put in front of their face first.

_sideffect ,

Gmail does the same, at least for me on mobile when I look at my promotions Inbox

tja ,
@tja@sh.itjust.works avatar

You can turn this multiple inbox feature off. Then you will not have that problem anymore. I did that and now have an ad free Gmail app

_sideffect ,

Thanks for the tip!

Reygle ,
@Reygle@lemmy.world avatar

I Sincerely hope you logged back in to outlook.com after to reject all permissions and tear out your data/accounts

RememberTheApollo_ ,

Nope. But I think I’ll do that now. Thanks for the prompt.

KneeTitts ,
@KneeTitts@lemmy.world avatar

the new version of thunderbird is amaaaazzzzing

RememberTheApollo_ ,

Really. It’s been a decade at least since I last tried it. It was primitive and error prone at the time.

KneeTitts ,
@KneeTitts@lemmy.world avatar

It’s been a decade at least since I last tried it. It was primitive

the old versions were not very good, but 'supernova' came out a few months ago and everything improved. Its really good

RememberTheApollo_ ,

Already downloaded and installed. Very quick and easy setup, easy to use and intuitive, no bs. Thumbs up. Thanks for the reminder it exists.

stagen ,
@stagen@feddit.dk avatar

Uninstall that shit.

Edit: if you HAVE to use Outlook (because of work, etc), use the web version of it exclusively.

fne8w2ah ,

Or the PWA version if you're so inclined.

csm10495 ,
@csm10495@sh.itjust.works avatar

I give the web version credit, it's pretty swell.

1371113 ,

The web version and the new version look and feel nearly identical for me. Been using it at work for 6 months now.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

What's the privacy conscious, and future-proof way to have email, that isn't as crazy expensive as Proton?

ExLisper ,

"I heard you like data collection so we put data collecting email app in your data collecting OS so we can collect data about our data collection"

omnomed ,
spoiler

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9262caf1-9e25-4dfb-accb-fc9de846b04a.webm

ExLisper ,

Should I make it into a 'Yo Dawg' meme?

Gregorech ,

Always

T00l_shed ,

Powered by AI!

arc ,

I got a popup saying "wanna try the new Outlook app"? So I did and the fucking thing immediately inserted ads that resembled email into my inbox. If this is the future I'll install Thunderbird.

lud ,

Thunderbird is great!

rabiddolphin ,
@rabiddolphin@lemmy.world avatar

Email is outdated. I hate that it's required for anything, no one uses it for anything other than a high speed fax machine for boring business communique

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

Damn right, long live Google Wave!

rabiddolphin ,
@rabiddolphin@lemmy.world avatar

Eww, Google products

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

I was joking, but I'm curious what product you think could replace email? It's popular because it's instant (as opposed to phone, fax, email), and most importantly because it's decentralised. There is no one company in control, anyone can run a server on any software so long as it speaks the open standards.

I'm sure there is something that could replace it, but what's your suggestion?

rabiddolphin ,
@rabiddolphin@lemmy.world avatar

Everyone uses messengers now, it's already been replaced

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

Email have very much not been replaced. Messengers fit a specific niche. I personally send dozens of emails a day, and receive even more. These aren't chat messages, but more elaborate emails that chat messages just don't suit.

rabiddolphin ,
@rabiddolphin@lemmy.world avatar

Why don't you use FIDOnet while you're at it?

girlfiend ,

Apples to oranges. Messengers replace text, which replaces telegram.

Emails are comparable to letters, and are still the best option for that format.

lemmyvore ,

So you want your entire online identity to be owned and controlled by one of the big online corps?

itslilith ,
@itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

The email protocol actually isn't instant, delivery delays up to 24 hours are with specification

INHALE_VEGETABLES ,

Should we start running our business on tiktok?

deczzz ,
@deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Your alternative?

rabiddolphin ,
@rabiddolphin@lemmy.world avatar

Anything designed within the last 20 year should do it

Kolli ,
@Kolli@sopuli.xyz avatar

Rarely open protocol.

isVeryLoud ,
@isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca avatar

Can you be more specific?

bluewing ,

Xitter.........

bitwolf ,

I feel the same about SMS auth. Considering many services block voip and Google Voice, it's impossible to use the broad majority of web services without a cellphone.

lemmyvore ,

You mean, other than being the most widespread method of account identification on the internet?

You need to have a method of uniquely identifying (and verifying) accounts and the other widespread method (phone numbers) is extremely privacy invasive because it's much harde or practically impossible to change phone number for most people.

rusticus ,

As someone with an iCloud account, every time I try to use Outlook it randomly deletes emails from my iCloud account. I’ve posted this multiple times on Microsoft support site with others confirming and since it’s been more than year with no acknowledgment or fix I am convinced it’s a feature not a bug. YMMV.

lud ,

Just stop using it with outlook then?

rusticus ,

I wasn't asking for your advise but was merely pointing out experience that others may not want to repeat. I don't use Outlook at all.

derpgon ,

You sure you did not use POP3?

rusticus ,

Yes I went over all settings multiple times with Outlook support. It's a bug/feature they are not interested in fixing.

kworpy ,
@kworpy@lemm.ee avatar

It's almost as if Microsoft doesn't do that already!

randomaside ,

TBH when I got this exact pop up on my last windows laptop (dell xps13) I actually panicked and installed PopOS on it.

I didn't feel like distro hopping, I just needed it to work. I guess that shows how I feel about PopOS at the moment.

bitwolf ,

Hey at least you picked a great distro to settle on!

PlantObserver ,

Hey Proton how about you quit privacy-washing and actually prioritize and release feature parity products for Linux so your customers aren't being herded onto windows' data harvesting platform just so they can use your supposedly privacy forward products

helenslunch ,

The Linux Experiment recently interviewed the CEO who answered this question.

Basically it's the same as anything else. Linux requires more effort to code for due to its variety of distributions, and has a significantly smaller userbase.

In short, don't blame Proton, blame the (lack of) users.

1995ToyotaCorolla ,
@1995ToyotaCorolla@lemmy.world avatar

I mean, can’t you just package your app in flatpack or even snap? Bam, your app works on 99% of distributions for little effort. That’s what Spotify does, and I’d argue they have even less incentive to support Linux than proton does

helenslunch ,

I don't know, I'm not a developer. Lots of companies don't make their products available on Linux, most cite similar reasoning, so it's unsurprising. But I agree it's disappointing. I really wish Linux was more user-friendly.

JoMomma ,

Spoken like someone who has never developed a app package

cley_faye ,

Sure, as long as you don't need any integration with other software, don't need arbitrary IPC, and actually keep some dependencies in line with some common denominator because there's only so much you can do with static linking (oh excuse me, distributing the shared libraries in the same package as your binaries as if it's a new thing) once it reach the "program must actually run" part.

Flatpack and every other similar solution that are described as "works everywhere" always come with a heck of limitations.

seliaste ,
@seliaste@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

He also answered this claim, it is right for apps that aren't stuff like Proton VPN that can't work in a sandboxed environment. They are working on it iirc

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