In my experience, Anarchists and democratic socialists usually get along just fine, so long as they don't argue over semantics. Tankies aren't leftists.
eeeeh...Look into what happened to Karl Liebknecht from the democratic socialists. Anarchists get along with both SocDems and Tankies so long as talk doesn't go to praxis or if it does and they advocate for anarchist praxis (which is usually what happens when they don't have power)
I don't think Libertarian Socialists should try to get along with tankies. I think we should excise them from every project. Not because we fundamentally disagree (we do) but because tankies are simultaneously traitors and an optics nightmare. Furthermore, they're not a large contingent of the population and so they don't really even grant us strong numbers by appealing to them. I'd honestly rather include progressive liberals than tankies because they're less traitorous (because they're usually not part of a personality cult) they're not terrible for optics, our politics have a similar degree of divergence, and they can draw better numbers. Liberals are also less frequently brainwashed and often less politically engaged than tankies, which combined with their frequent love of hearing people out makes it easier to couch our goals in language they find appealing and thus helping them align.
Nah leftists true enemy is the luke warm centrist who will agree in theory but not in action. Fascists are atleast honest and easy to spot. Its the people in the middle who bothsides evey argument till we are sitting here watching genocide happening before our eyes and still nothing is done to stop it.
Reminds me of when I was still religious lol. I was a part of the confusingly named Christian Church denomination (or something like that). But hey, because some churches believed in "once saved, always saved" we didn't get along! Which is hilarious because being away from it now all three of these very devisive topics
Once saved, always saved
You can lose salvation
Pre destination
All are really talked about the same way. If you don't act in what people believe is a god fearing manner then you were never actually saved to begin with.
But for real, basically every other part of the doctrine is the same. Jesus was the son of God who was fully God and fully human who died and was resurrected 3 days later. But because they taught sprinkling instead of immersion for baptism oh my god what a horrible misunderstanding of the scriptures!
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over.
[ In fake Scottish accent ]
They're natural enemies. Like fascists and leftists! Or neoliberals and leftists! Or moderates and leftists! Or leftists and leftists! Damn leftists! They ruined leftism!
one of these days, i hope people leave the idea of politics behind.
None of it is built to do anything other than prevent people from removing the people in power. The fact that this meme even exists is kind of ironic isn't it?
nah i just can't fucking stomach the fact that everytime a political debate happens and i bitch about politics being a shitty machine that shits out dysfunctional rhetoric and polices for the purposes of preventing actual real change from happening.
Because it fucking is, people lose their shit and call me any number of insults, including telling me to literally "kill myself" because apparently, having semi nuanced viewpoints is bad.
You can't escape politics, its baked into everything. You are expressing political views right now even as you claim otherwise. Even complete dissociation from society is a political choice. Its childish to try and escape from it, an abdication of our responsibility to others.
It's fucking everywhere. At the very least if we're going to fucking deal with it every day, i'd prefer it do things that actually exist, rather than boogeyman level shit that it currently tends to do right now.
It may be childish to try and escape from it, but falling with a failing system is equally as bad.
I feel like there is a subtle missunderstanding of my point. Its not that there is politics and then there is everything else.. its all political, everything, anything humans care about at all is politics.
There is no escape from it because its everything. Buy a bottle of water, that political, drive to work, that's political, play a game of dnd with your friends, thats political, jerk off alone in the forest where no one anywhere will ever see or know, guess what.. political.
Politics is the collective struggle to decide what we will and will not do, what we can and can not do, our values. Anything and everything you care about is political. Even if its something you take for granted and don't think about ever, the fact that you can take it for granted is political.
There isn't less or more politics at any given time, only less or more acknowledgement of the political realities at that time. Its everything.
its all political, everything, anything humans care about at all is politics.
yeah, i think that's the problem, there is a fundamental misapplication of politics. I also dont fundamentally agree with that assertion, arguably dying is not a politically relevant act. You could argue that being born is influenced by politics i suppose. But even then there's a layer of separation, or two.
i mean, you can kill yourself, which can be politically relevant, but i don't think dying of natural causes is politically relevant in any sense of the action, yeah.
Being told to kill ones self over slight nuances is childish, says more about them then you.
But like someone else has said politics is inescapable.
Man is by nature a political animal
Aristotle.
Everything that makes you and everything that will make you, is political. even if I choose to live in a forest on my own without contact would be a political choice and further actions born from that choice would continue to be political.
even given that fact, we've created science, and managed to create some of the most advanced, and incredible things in the world. Our level of technical complexity is unmatched by anything in our observable universe, to our knowledge.
I'm not sure it's impossible to consider politics, without politics. Even if just for the purpose of a thought experiment.
Maybe its the broadness of the word politics. As its extensive and easy to get hooked up on politics being old men farting in a room deciding on whether or not to rase the retirement age.
In that case I understand what your saying, so if we sent children to colonise another planet and these children miraculously had no understanding of prior generation or the world they'd come from we would soon see a system form akin to politics most likely archaic but would continue to evolve and would govern the lives of generations, this colony would most likely (if they survive) go on to create science, maths and build systems to interpret the world around them and all this governed by politics.
Anti capitalism is just anti capitalism. That's not a theory for how a society free from capitalism should work. Those theories will of course be diverse, and there will be disagreement.
Divide and conquer works for detroying social movements, and is one of the ruling classes favorite weapons of class warfare. It's easy to get agitators to derail the conversation or movement as a whole. There are fundamental differences in what anti capitalists believe should be done and how power should be distributed. I don't believe all leftists think the same thing, but I believe that the vast majority of "leftist infighting" is just agitation by the ruling class.
I am very particular about whom I allow into my circle of trust. That last 6% doesn't seem like much, but it is to me; if you don't believe every Nazi has a backpfeifengesicht, think capitalism should be "tweaked" instead of demolished, or complain about BLM or Pro-Palestinian protestors causing damage, then we're not gonna be best friends.
That being said, that 6% isn't nearly enough for me to consider you the enemy. Billionaires and the fascists they inspire are the enemies, and no attempt they make to divide and conquer us will ever be successful. I will march and scream alongside you in favor of the 94% we have in common.
If that 6% is someone believing the billionaires and fascists are NOT the enemies, then that's a pretty significant 6%... But otherwise, yeah, the rest we can work on
The authoritarian "lefties" are more interested in authoritarianism than being leftist. They're praising economic systems like China's, which produces plenty of billionaires, or North Korea's, which cannot even keep its lights on.
