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LordCrom ,

Also, America was formed because a bunch of rich, old, white guys didn't want to pay their taxes.

Mr_Blott ,

More like a bunch of folk who were turfed out of Europe for being a bit too religiously weird

That takes some doing in the 16th century 😂

tacosanonymous ,

I mean, that was why the pilgrims left. There were a lot of other people that came for a lot of other reasons after.

bartolomeo ,

Or be around Catholics.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Anglicans. Who were, in fact, persecuting other religions because that's just what you did at the time.

John_McMurray ,

Yeah but maybe look at a modern written constitution. At least the guys wrote the American one had some ideals. The Canadian Charter of Rights was written by a career politician in the late 70s to specifically guarantee governmental rights, not citizens.

unionagainstdhmo ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

How do constitutional alterations happen there? Is it by referendum like Australia (where everyone's opinion matters) or is it by some arbitrary majority in the houses of congress (where only the elite political class' opinion matters)?

DaneGerous ,

An amendment may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.

unionagainstdhmo ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

So basically only the political and by extension the upper class get to decide the rules by which they play. Sounds really fair. FREEDOM!!!

UmeU ,

I have always felt that freedom of press was one of the most fundamental aspects of a working democracy. Without a free press, you cannot have proper checks and balances. Unfortunately, while press is still ‘free’, actual unbiased news gets only a small fraction of the viewership. Mainstream ‘news’ is nearly completely opinion driven, and profit is the incentive rather than the dissemination of information. The free press no longer serves its necessary function, there is no accountability, and democracy is at risk.

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

We no longer have free press, not to any meaningful degree:

https://mronline.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/cfr-media-network-hdb-spr.png

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fnb11lryl6ca01.png&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=66706af54416ed9715c6fe1c54e8a84c2dd19eecbeeb601c6bbfe64bdfa63dc2&ipo=images

European version:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/00/1b/f7001bf2e14e9446b64a83b0f296c1db.png

Given that the freedom of press is a requirement for a healthy democracy, and corporations owning all of these subsidiaries prevents that, I think it is well past time that we ban corporations from owning subsidiary companies.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Disney ate 21st Century Fox, so it's even worse now.

Liz ,

At the very least, every product should be explicitly labeled as produced by the top parent company, right next to the actual name of the product.

schlump ,

Looking at the European version, I don't see any of the big serious journalistic outlets. Most of what's in there are just tabloids or lifestyle magazines.
And even if a newspaper is part of a big conglomerate, doesn't mean that they are not free

mojofrododojo ,

I note a lack of NPR in the us version.... also seems like conspiracy bullshit.

Olgratin_Magmatoe , (edited )

And even if a newspaper is part of a big conglomerate, doesn’t mean that they are not free

Sure it does. If the CEO of a news organization doesn't want something published, it doesn't get published. That's why you never see articles on the Washington post that are critical of Bezos/Amazon/etc. And so when you get huge swaths of the media controlled by just a few people, it is no longer free.

SomethingBurger ,
@SomethingBurger@jlai.lu avatar

Here's one for France:

https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/local/cache-vignettes/L890xH664/679.hrmedias-37fb7.png

It shows national and big local newspapers.

schlump ,

Idk if it's my lemmy client, but I can't read most of the text in the image, because it's too low res

SomethingBurger ,
@SomethingBurger@jlai.lu avatar

Try https://www.monde-diplomatique.fr/cartes/PPA

LordCrom ,

What about public radio, NPR? Of all the crap news out there, the reports I get off NPR are usually well balanced

UmeU ,

So yea, I hear you. I pretty much exclusively listen to NPR for news, and they are pretty balanced if not potentially a little left leaning from time to time, which I actually find refreshing.

But when a measurable percentage of the country thinks fox is fair and balanced, or that FB is a news source, the ability for our free press to safeguard democracy is severely threatened.

What good is free press when there are no longer facts and everything is opinion based?

Paraphrasing Asimov, ‘There is a cult of ignorance which operates under the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is as good as your knowledge.’

When trump took a play straight out of the dictators handbook and started shouting fake news, I began to fear that this was the beginning of the end. The real beginning however was probably a few decades back when news went from dry and factual to sensationalist infotainment.

LordCrom ,

It's when CNN went to a 24hour news cycle and they had to fill that time with a bunch of talking heads spouting opinions.

Socsa ,

Yes, a functional democracy requires that users have real political agency to engage with political topics, and that requires a high bar for individual liberty including press and academic freedom. A ton of people here will try to argue an absurd absolutist case that freedoms don't matter because all governments engage in some curtailment of freedom, and that this all therefore reduces to preference.

The reality is that neither governments or institutions outside of government are perfect. Perfection is a vision which guides institutions, not a real endpoint. That's why you should always be very critical of anyone who is quick to engage in criticism of your institutions, but is unwilling to engage in criticism of their own. This is the surest sign that someone is not acting in good faith, be it in real life, or on a notoriously sensitive meme community.

Mango ,

Who is P guy?

Masterblaster420 ,

the meat of it is concerned with property and ownership, which has little to do with the general welfare of sentient beings, so i think it was alright for the time, and totally outdated now.

Sekrayray ,

I don’t think the problem is that the government “wasn’t the best ever,” I think it’s that it hasn’t changed. And the US hasn’t done a lot to enforce some of the groundwork beliefs of the framers.

I still think the idea and balance of power of the US government is one of the best—but it was created to change with the times and address practical flaws (amendments) and hasn’t.

Liz ,

Yeah, but that's a structural flaw inherit in the initial design. We were doomed to quickly end up in a two party system, despite the fact that they all thought they were better than parties. The federal government pretty much immediately became a two party affair, that that inherently stagnates change and limits the actual will of the people from being enacted in government.

We need to switch to Approval Voting and proportional representation if we want the government to actually represent the people.

muad_dibber ,
@muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Many liberal countries have these alternative voting systems, and it means nothing. Australia and Japan for example use alternate voting systems, and yet are still far-right countries who are killing indigenous movements and have extremely unpopular governments.

The root problem is that in liberal countries, capitalists stand above the political system, and control it for their own purposes. No people's democracy can emerge from within it, regardless of any system of "checks and balances" or voting systems.

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot ,

The problem is that they're still largely perceived as being the best ever. The American founding fathers are pretty much deified, and it's still expected that important policy decisions will be made based on what these centuries-dead aristocrats thought rather than based on what's needed in the here and now. Other countries don't do this. I've never in my life heard a politician try to attack or defend a position based on what John A. Macdonald would have thought of it, but in the USA that sort of thing happens all the time.

JoYo ,
@JoYo@lemmy.ml avatar

and the government has never changed in any since.

DoucheBagMcSwag ,

Totally Rad!

It was "we have MegaMan at home."

SoleInvictus ,

Did you know it was called Magic John in Japan? If only it kept its name in the US...

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Being mid was kinda Jaleco's thing.

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the genocide of indigenous peoples and the suppression of slave revolts, the right of the settler crakkkers to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

What a random image to use!

ObstreperousCanadian ,
@ObstreperousCanadian@lemmy.ca avatar

Thanks! I knew I recognized it but not from where.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

A rare example of a Japanese game being made better by localization. While the original is just a generic story about a guy rescuing a kidnapped girl, in the US version they made them Californian teenagers who speak in ridiculous surfer slang. "Jake, they're like stealing me or something. Help!"

ObstreperousCanadian ,
@ObstreperousCanadian@lemmy.ca avatar

It also had a great soundtrack!

Rhynoplaz ,

At least we got rid of that pesky national religion that controls what's legal and what's not.

Right?

TigrisMorte ,

Then you'd be wasting your Vote on a candidate with zero chance at election.

unconfirmedsourcesDOTgov ,

Sorry bud, you're in the wrong community if you're looking for allies when you bring logic based on reality into the conversation.

BreakDecks ,

You mean a meme community doesn't like humorlessness in the comments? Color me surprised.

mojofrododojo ,

memes can prompt a variety of reactions. acting like this is your safe space for only happy thoughts is pretty infantile.

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Hate to be that guy but the second amendment was drafted hundreds of years ago. The invention of the nuclear bomb was such a jaw dropping discovery, try explaining to the people who drafted it that the government will have weapons of war that make the arms they had in mind literally useless.

Having guns, for the purpose of keeping a tyrannical government in check, is as effective as bringing ice to the North pole to keep it from melting.

SupraMario ,

Tell me again how we won in Vietnam/Afghanistan/Iraq... o yea we didn't, and if you think that nuking your own populous is logical....wtf. because that neighborhood you live in, isn't just a bunch of people who think just like you. So when they bomb your neighbors house, your shit is getting fucked as well.

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, fuck me, it's almost like trying to quell an insurgency on foreign land where every time you murder a terrorist you make more because those terrorists had families and lived in communities. It's almost like that's unconventional warfare where the only way to win is by committing a genocide (which we can absolutely do but choose not to, you little fuckin goober).

We didn't 'lose' Vietnam, Afghanistan, nor Iraq. The government decided it wasn't worth occupying the land any further and had become too costly. You really fuckin think the government is going to just throw their hands up and go "Awe shucks, guess we gotta give up our own land to the hicks with assault rifles." No you fuckin cabbage, they'll roll out tanks and APCs from the military bases 15 miles in any direction with full kit and put your dumb ass in your own bed and tuck you in.

You are giga fucked in the head if you think for even a solitary second domestic martial law with the combined force of all military branches is anywhere near as difficult as shipping that same hardware halfway around the world to places that don't want you there. All shit the founding fathers couldn't comprehend because going from one landmass to another was still a multi-month journey and not everyone would survive it.

The government only loses when it kills so many of us we can't make it enough money to put gas in the F-35 raptors.

SupraMario ,

Yeah, fuck me, it's almost like trying to quell an insurgency on foreign land where every time you murder a terrorist you make more because those terrorists had families and lived in communities. It's almost like that's unconventional warfare where the only way to win is by committing a genocide (which we can absolutely do but choose not to, you little fuckin goober).

Eww so close to understanding... because yes that totally wouldn't happen here at all lol

We didn't 'lose' Vietnam, Afghanistan, nor Iraq. The government decided it wasn't worth occupying the land any further and had become too costly. You really fuckin think the government is going to just throw their hands up and go "Awe shucks, guess we gotta give up our own land to the hicks with assault rifles." No you fuckin cabbage, they'll roll out tanks and APCs from the military bases 15 miles in any direction with full kit and put your dumb ass in your own bed and tuck you in.

Lol you are braindead if you think the military is going to side one way or another. We did lose all 3 of those wars and those people we were killing didn't look or speak like us. Also those hicks are the majority of the military...lol

You are giga fucked in the head if you think for even a solitary second domestic martial law with the combined force of all military branches is anywhere near as difficult as shipping that same hardware halfway around the world to places that don't want you there. All shit the founding fathers couldn't comprehend because going from one landmass to another was still a multi-month journey and not everyone would survive it.

Lol ok buddy you keep thinking that. Remember your home is free game when they start bombing your neighborhood to kill a few of those hicks.

The government only loses when it kills so many of us we can't make it enough money to put gas in the F-35 raptors.

The second a f-35 starts killing us citizens is when it can't be refueled. You clearly do not understand how bad a civil war would be...

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

"You're braindead if you think the military would pick one way or the other."

"[...] to protect against all enemies foreign and domestic." They're not American citizens, they're terrorists. Insurgents. You clearly have no fucking idea how the game is played, dipshit. The military sides with the military.

Your entire fucking reason for why the government can't erase your dumb ass is that" they're American citizens!!" like that has ever stopped them in any situation, ever. Actual fucking retard.

SupraMario ,

Lol you must be like 15 or something because you clearly do not understand how our military works, nor do you understand who runs it. Hint... it's not the people like you who hate guns and want to get rid of the 2nd amendment. The military is siding with those so called hicks.

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Lol there's this cute thing called boot camp every branch goes through. It knocks out 80% of your identity and if you were ever in the military you'd know you're not allowed to have political opinions and damn sure not allowed to voice them. You are a tool. An instrument of the government. The military is not siding with you dumb fucking rednecks cosplaying as militia. You will get steamrolled like the domestic terrorists you are.

PLEASE go test out how effective that second amendment is. Go into any US fort, armed, and see how far you get. I'm begging.

SupraMario ,

Lol you're a fucking idiot. First I'm far left, but not a dipshit who thinks the 2nd should be abolished and only the gov. Have force multipliers... second I don't think you understand how people work, because their are absolutely tons of people in the military that hold political opinions.

At this point I feel like I'm arguing with some basement dwelling armchair warrior...and you're boring me. Go touch some grass kid.

Cosmonaut_Collin ,
@Cosmonaut_Collin@lemmy.world avatar

Woah! What are you? Some kind of Communist? The founding fathers were perfect in every way. Ain't no one more qualified on God's green flat Earth!

spicytuna62 OP ,
@spicytuna62@lemmy.world avatar

Pfft get a load of this guy who thinks the Earth is green.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

The earth is flat!!! ARRRRR!!1!1 screams at sky

bobs_monkey ,

Gestures broadly at the sky and oceans

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I'd vote for a candidate who vowed to dismantle the entire system and replace it with anything with even a modicum of equity

CableMonster ,

I will pass on that one, I want equality not equity.

Cowbee ,

What are you referring to?

neptune ,

Even Jefferson surmised it should be radically updated every few decades. I think he'd and many others would be pissed to realized we're all held hostage by compromises that barely made sense at the time.

Stupidmanager ,

When a book of fiction is considered perfect and the word of god by more than half the population that supports this model… well, your answer is obvious. This works, for the “right” people, even though it’s very wrong. And half the voting population want to make it worse.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

The other half want to genocide Muslims in the name of protecting white privilege. Turns out, both sides are right wing, one simply more right than the other.

vzq ,

The fuq did I just read?

Melody ,

Not only did they guess it should be updated; they even left plenty of mechanisms directly in the constitution that allowed for it to be updated radically whenever situations changed so drastically that a supermajority agrees that it should be changed.

Unfortunately that too is the downfall; as those who want to exploit the status quo are also empowered to leverage their money and power to prevent such a majority from taking place. The constitution is far from perfect, and it absolutely should've been amended many hundreds of times over, not just the paltry less than 30 times we've managed to do so already.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

George Washington was against political parties for the exact reason our country is being torn apart by partisan politics today.

mipadaitu ,

Sounds like he should have put stronger protections in place, and definitely shouldn't have tied us to a FPTP voting style. Even the electoral college and the 270 vote requirements force us into a two party system.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

Yup, as was said earlier, it was known that the system would have to be overthrown over time as it became bloated and corrupt.

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

- Thomas Jefferson

KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

I think its interesting how the grifting right has moved away from the "Founding Fathers" to the "Constitution" because they know the fathers would see how shit's being run and be outright mortified!

"We never should have left the monarchy..."

danc4498 ,

It certainly feels radically different than a few decades ago…

SupraMario ,

Thinking our gov hasn't been updated means you're not paying attention. There has been a ton of changes since the founding of the country.

Wootz ,

But how many in the last few decades? When was the last amendment?

SupraMario ,

Amendments don't really matter when laws are created constantly that circumvent them.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

You can't circumvent the Constitution with a law. That's the point.

Only with judicial capture.

SupraMario ,

Lol the fuck you can't, tons of amendments are constantly being circumvented. This is just plainly false.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

You should look up what judicial capture means.

SupraMario ,

You're point was to say no you can't....then at the very end say well you can but.

I was commenting on the first part. And no it doesn't always require judicial capture for bad laws to be passed. Plenty of bipartisan shit gets sent through. It's not like the patriot act was just allowed through by on the red team.

neptune ,

Yes I'm aware we have had some amendments. Ending slavery. Allowing women to vote. Direct election of Senators.

What about gerrymandering? Cap in the house leading to bad representation? The senate? I mean the senate still exists. States aren't people like people pretended they were. So much has not changed.

SupraMario ,

There are tons of laws that circumvent amendments already, why do you think we need straight up amendments to the constitution to get things done?

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