Welcome to Incremental Social! Learn more about this project here!
Check out lemmyverse to find more communities to join from here!

PanArab ,

I must be in the minority that actually prefers 11 to 10

CompN12 ,

I honestly don't care between 11 and 10, since switching there hasn't been an impactful difference for me.

I will however revel in the memery that Microsoft has brought upon itself.

Dozzi92 ,
@Dozzi92@lemmy.world avatar

My PC is 10, my laptop for work is now 11. It's the same. I guess I'm just not a power user but it operates exactly the same for me. I wouldn't update from 10, but I wouldn't not buy 11.

PanArab ,

Technically both are 10, but I do like the new UI on 11.

Dozzi92 ,
@Dozzi92@lemmy.world avatar

Are you saying 11 is just a reskinning? Or are you saying my laptop is 10?

PanArab ,

Windows 11 does report its version number as 10. The latest release of Windows 11 is 10.0.22631.3374 but I don't know enough to say it is just a reskinning of Windows 10.

Dozzi92 ,
@Dozzi92@lemmy.world avatar

Appreciate the clarification. It sure feels like something after the period, not before.

lud ,

I had to upgrade to Win 11 today ;(

Hyper-V configuration version 9.3 and above is not available on Win 10.

And yes I know about Linux, my laptop runs it.
But I'm not in the mood of migrating a fuck ton of stuff to another OS.
I have around 20 TB of storage on my PC and redoing everything should be a pain.

I also don't want to forget my Windows knowledge overtime.

I will absolutely disable as much bullshit as possible though. I didn't even have web search in the search bar in win 10 (because it broke the search bar, but still).

Secret300 ,

Should still make the switch imo lol

lud ,

Yeah, I guess. It's just too much work.

Maybe when I can finally afford to offload all the Plex and piracy tools and especially the media content from the PC to a server. I could also migrate all the services to docker but docker on Windows is a bit annoying to use.

Another factor is that I'm honestly pretty good with Windows and I can fix most issues easily so Windows just works.

Linux mostly just works out of the box, but fixing issues is more complicated for me on Linux and issues have been comparatively common on my Linux laptop.

I also like to do stuff on my PC which can be more complicated to Linux due to a lack of support. Gaming primarily but that is getting much better, I also like to try some professional software occasionally and those often don't work on Linux.

But all things considered I really like Linux, I just won't migrate my main PC any time soon.

melpomenesclevage ,

Had to use win11 yesterday.

It was completely unusable fucking trash and even the ux was terrible.

If it helps, my media drives transferred straight over to Linux when I cleaned by last windows device.

lud ,

Yeah, I actually liked the start menu in Win 10. Very customizable and usable if you actually spend some time to set it up.

Now the start menu is barebone bullshit.

melpomenesclevage ,

Even the visuals; no contrast, no style, no visual economy, no virtue of any kind.

lud ,

Well at least it's better than Gnome, lol.

melpomenesclevage ,

Its honestly not. I would rather use gnome than win11.

I didn't even like old gnome.

lud ,

I really dislike gnome (obviously) so pretty much anything is better. Win 11 isn't that bad. It's in some ways worse than Win 10 but it's not close to Gnome bad IMO of course.

I run KDE on my laptop (and steam deck) and it's very nice.

melpomenesclevage ,

It really is that bad tho.

lud ,

Nah, I don't agree.

In the end it's still windows 10 with a reskin.

Dozzi92 ,
@Dozzi92@lemmy.world avatar

It was completely unusable fucking trash and even the ux was terrible.

How do you say this with a straight face. I know, just know, you want to push Linux, it's a must here on Lemmy, but to say it's unusable trash does more to denigrate my opinion of your opinion than my opinion of the OS. It functions substantially similar to W10.

I want to truly know what you mean. What did you try to do but were 100% prohibited doing due to W11?

melpomenesclevage ,

Read what I wrote, dear. I answered literally all your questions.

Dozzi92 ,
@Dozzi92@lemmy.world avatar

You couldn't figure out how to change paper size. Seems like operator error.

melpomenesclevage ,

But the ux was so bad, I described many of the ways it was bad.

If your solution is 'get gud', might I recommend you install arch?

Dozzi92 ,
@Dozzi92@lemmy.world avatar

It isn't get good. I'm sure you're more than capable of figuring it out. It just feels like, a long with so many other similar posts, shit in windows because windows bad. And I'm as nostalgic for XP and 98 as many people on here are, in the same way I'm nostalgic for many other things that happened during my formative years, but to go to say windows is unusable is just completely counter to my person experience, which is that windows has removed some power user features over the past 20 years, but remains largely the same. I also don't use it the way I used to.

Setting up a Linux box for me would just be a hobbyist exercise, and so I may, I will, just haven't gotten around to it yet.

melpomenesclevage ,

This isnt power user shit. Its GUI printing a document.

The ux was actively terrible. Yeah I was sad when I had to uninstall 7; nothing worked with it anymore. But I went into 11 and it was just completely terrible. Youre a boiled frog, friend.

I cannot think of a ux mistake they didn't make. And there's no fucking excuse; it's the flagship product of a multi billion dollar company! And it wasnt even pretty to look at!

I'm not a Linux partisan because Linux is good. I'm a Linux partisan because Linux, at the very least, isnt getting actively worse over time. Its not losing features. Its not being dumbed down. You don't need to tolerate this week's added bullshit corporate bloat.

I wish to fuck I could still be using windows 7, but I can't. Windows is dead. So Linux it is.

SuperSpruce ,

The last [good] version of Windows.

RecluseRamble ,

That would be 7. With 10 Microsoft went heavily into the snooping business.

AMDIsOurLord ,

The telemetry of Windows 10 back in 2015 ain't got jack shit on the adware craziness they got years later

rdri ,

8.1 is a faster version of 7 that also has some compatibility with apps that are said to require 10. Just disable those metro things and use your favorite app for start menu.

Aties ,

I'm glad I have finally seen someone else who appreciates windows 8 (or at least is willing to admit it). People just lose their shit when there are any changes to the start menu, but the best start menu is to not have one at all.

Windows 8 has way better hotkeys (limit seaeching to files, programs, or applications) compared to the unified search in newer versions.

rdri ,

Actually I'm a fan of having a start menu but I also used some other apps and launchers, even a dock (RocketDock is one of the most useful apps for me and it's a shame it never received the x64 version).

Used 8.1 for years and didn't need to reinstall it even once. I appreciate it for its technical side. From what I understand it was developed together with the mobile version so it's somewhat lighter on resources. It also lacks aero which adds to that.

Keeponstalin ,

The LTSC version of Windows 10 is pretty good, relatively. No bloat or ads.

Moonrise2473 ,

Yes but then vanguard and blackrock (they control about 15% of m$ shares) saw that their investment in AMD (again, with 15% they're the biggest institutional shareholders) and their investment in Intel (more billions in shares) needed a way to increase CPU sales, so they told Microsoft to add artificial CPU requirements in order to send to the dumpster any computer produced before 2018

sunstoned ,

send to the dumpster any computer produced before 2018

You mean send into the arms of a frugal Linux enthusiast ;)

regdog ,

Windows 10 is the last version of Windows (that I am going to use)

HATEFISH ,

I'll be the guy in this thread, I switched to mint for everything except CS2 (Wtf valve fix your native client) and will not be looking back.

melpomenesclevage ,

I had to use windows yesterday. Public computer at a print shop.

Everything was shades of white, the scroll bar was barely visible, when I enlarged a window the ux elements scaled up, and there was already tons of dead ui space, so I assumed there weren't any more to show. Also, every program, even though they were all Microsoft, gave a different screen when I hit control p.

I couldn't figure out how to adjust paper size. Ive been using computers since 199(2/3), when I could barely talk. Ive used legacy systems older than me-for industrial shit, for novelty. I grew up mostly a MS-DOS then windows girl. I've installed arch. Ive run arch successfully as a daily driver, then moved to qubes for a few years. I have systems so hacked together, I need to lick a bit of wire I connected poorly to trigger a thing (3v, its fine) I currently have a dead bug soldered project sitting half finished next to me (the hardware is done, works, I'm just bad at code), in a room that could mostly pass for the set of a live action 'serial experiment lain' remake.

And I couldn't adjust print settings on modern windows. Because it's just that garbage. Two days ago I wasnt a fanatical Linux partisan. I think I am now.

Dozzi92 ,
@Dozzi92@lemmy.world avatar

I replied to your other post and this was below so don't feel compelled to type it again up there.

melpomenesclevage ,

Right sorry saw this in the other screen assumed you were responding to this one.

Dozzi92 ,
@Dozzi92@lemmy.world avatar

I guess I've confused things a bit.

melpomenesclevage ,

Well if your solution to craptacular useless ux is 'get gud', which was sort of implied, then you sound like a certain kind of arch user. Just install that on your primary machine; I'm sure it'll be fine.

tostos ,

i moved pirated ltsc. my free w10 licence burned but its ok :D

NaoPb ,

I would use Linux but my graphics card only has nouveau drivers in Linux and that's a lot worse than Nvidia drivers in Windows 10.
Same for some older ATI/AMD cards that still pack a punch in Windows with the official drivers but aren't supported in Linux in official drivers.

cley_faye ,

Out of curiosity, what GPU do you have that is not decently supported? Both the latest AMD and NVidia stuff is, at least for the general public stuff.

NaoPb ,

I will have a look and get back to you.

I must admit however that I have had a change of mind after my comment and that it may have been a failure on my end. I think I may have overlooked an option for at least one of my cards, and I have since also found a guide that uses a PPA in Ubuntu.

Also besides this I have some really old (pci-express) graphics cards in active use because they are better than onboard and the pc's are still fast enough. But it would be nice to get those working with official drivers (even if older) so that some simpler games like FlatOut 1 & 2 can still be played on them.

dev_null ,

It's funny how media widely misreported this, but what's not funny is that people believe that to this day. Even in this thread people think Microsoft said that.

The quote is in the article:

Right now we're releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we're all still working on Windows 10,

They obviously meant Windows 10 is the latest version of Windows, but I guess misconstruing the quote got the clicks and then everyone went along. There was never any announcement from Microsoft, all of the "Windows 10 is the final version of Windows" thing is based on misconstruing the quote. If a reporter really believed this interpretation to be the case, it would be easy to just ask Microsoft, but they didn't. Or did, got the "lol no of course it's not last" answer and ignored it because that would make their clickbait article go away.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

Yep. The fact that Windows 11 exists ought to be a clue.

callouscomic ,

What????? When was anyone gonna SAY something?!?!?!?!

shinratdr ,
@shinratdr@lemmy.ca avatar

I don’t think that’s a fair interpretation, I think Microsoft absolutely intended what they said here, that Windows 10 was the last version of Windows. Hence the shift in development strategy. Annual breaking updates rather than new full releases, the new month-year versioning cycle, free for anyone with a valid Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 license.

I think the goal was to eventually drop the “10” and for it to just be Windows as a service, where major versions don’t really matter and the UX slowly evolves over time rather than in one big change.

Then, something happened. Obviously this is purely speculative, but I suspect either the executive championing this strategy left, or they saw it cutting into their profits more than they anticipated, or enterprises complained about frequent breaking updates, who knows. Then Windows 11 appeared out of nowhere. The signalling from MS for enterprise was clear. Stop monolithic imaging and site-wide rollouts, instead test applications with a pilot group and then push the annual releases wide if no issues are found.

I definitely think something changed. While you’re right that this is the only quote supporting it directly, when asked in follow-ups Microsoft went out of its way to NOT deny the statement or confirm it. If the plan was the status quo, they would have just said “we have not changed our release model at this time” but they didn’t. They knew full well that based on how widely reported that quote was, people would infer that it was the strategy. If they felt so strongly that it was just a simple misspeaking, they would have said so.

lukecooperatus ,

Windows 11 is technically still Windows 10, if you go by the actual version reported by the systeminfo command. For example, my fully updated Windows 11 Pro VM reports itself as OS Version: 10.0.22631, so there might still be something to the idea that "Windows 10 is the last version" but the marketing and branding teams didn't stay on the same message.

Passerby6497 ,

That version number is pretty meaningless though. If you look at version numbers, vista, 7 and 8 were all 6.x. I'm pretty sure they do numbering based on some underlying architecture feature, and when it changes enough they change the major version number.

BuryMyHorse ,

Move over Arch, I am the rolling release right now

skullgiver , (edited )
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

[Thread, post or comment was deleted by the author]

    •
    jj4211 ,

    which currently only has about one year of support left, officially

    Well, no, "Version 23H2" only has one year of support. The 24H2 update will likely happen and likely have support until 2026. They do not list a retirement date for "Windows 11", only for the updates.

    You are right that for 10, the formal documentation listed an EOL. I can also believe that the "last version" was started by a misunderstanding. However, that "Windows 10 is the last version" spread hard and Microsoft made no effort to correct that at all. If there's one thing internet sites love more than over-speculating about a potential mis-speak, it's showing their fellow internet sites to be morons by posting Microsoft statements clarifying things. So Microsoft had to have noticed and still opted not to interject. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some "we are going to make Windows 10 a rolling release" sentiment bouncing around at Microsoft. It would be consistent with how they declared that new features and deprecations would come twice a year.

    flop_leash_973 ,

    Everyone that was paying attention to the Microsoft Windows support lifecycle web page back then knew that statement was horse shit.

    jj4211 ,

    Well, on one hand you had one line in a table in a formal web page.

    On the other, you had that very awkward phrasing (if he merely meant 'latest'):

    because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10,

    But maybe that was a misunderstanding and he did mean 'latest', but in the flurry of internet coverage, Microsoft never issued a statement highlighting the misunderstanding. Instead they let that run rampant.

    In fact, it was very consistent with a lot that happened with Windows 10:

    • The mass "free to upgrade for everyone going back to 7" toward the goal of getting their userbase largely on a consistent vintage that is more supportable
    • The twice a year major updates that were pitched as 'new features and functions', with a more 'rolling release' feel

    So while certainly that one lifecycle page did have it stated, I have to wonder why Microsoft was mum on the subject even as their community was 'getting it wrong'. I wouldn't be surprised if the reality is that they were seriously considering it. That guy might have even meant 'last' because he thought the 'eternal update' camp were going to win out.

    circuitfarmer ,
    @circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    I am mostly a Linux user (surprise, Lemmy!) but recently started a new job. Given the choice of a Windows laptop vs a Macbook Pro, I took the latter, despite my long-time distaste for Apple.

    I do not, even in a work setting, even want to touch Windows 11 in any recurring capacity (yes, I did try it -- at my last role).

    gregorum ,
    @gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

    Longhorn (pre-reset) was my last version of windows back in 2004. after that mess, i refused to ever go back.

    BassTurd ,

    Windows 7 was peak Windows experience IMO, and to follow it up win Windows 8...

    possiblylinux127 ,
    @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

    Windows 7 is awful

    pete_the_cat ,

    It was their last good OS.

    possiblylinux127 ,
    @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

    Still proprietary spyware, it looks awful and it is bloated.

    Let's agree to disagree

    pete_the_cat ,

    It's shit compared to XP, but it's wonderful when compared to 11, or even 10.

    Hootz ,

    https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/2e838ccb-c110-45d6-bb25-fb528624b31c.jpeg

    ForgotAboutDre ,

    They are both right.

    possiblylinux127 ,
    @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

    Far enough

    toddestan ,

    I consider Windows 7 the last good version, but I still consider Windows 2000 to be when Microsoft was at the top of their game.

    cyberpunk007 ,

    I still remember my first windows 7 install. I remember my wallpaper. It was winter. I rocked a digital blasphemy snowman wallpaper. Shortly after, doom 3 was released. The amount of counter strike I played on there was problematic. I remember installing like a game desktop where it was an fps and I could arrange things and walk to different rooms of a house which were just folders of shortcuts and shit. Lol. It was neat for a bit.

    So nostalgic now.

    BassTurd ,

    Better times, friend. Better times.

    thorfin1984 ,

    The name came from the bar in Whistler, BC... might give a little more insight into the development team...

    gregorum ,
    @gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

    i know.

    fyi, WindowsXP was codenamed "Whistler". Windows 7 was originally codenamed "Blackcomb", but that codename was later dropped. Windows Home Server 2011 was codenamed "Vail".

    the MS team has a history of using ski resorts and related names as codenames for windows betas.

    thorfin1984 ,

    Oh yes, I'm well aware but couldn't remember what names connected to the proper OS. I've always had the joking idea in my head that the names came from a project manager who didn't actually do anything except daydream about where their next paid vacation was booked lol

    gregorum ,
    @gregorum@lemm.ee avatar

    Whistler Blackcomb was the name of a resort that the Windows design team used to on retreat to. They would also go elsewhere, as I’m sure you can guess…

    Windows 11 was codenamed “Sun Valley”

    Hootz ,

    Shit TIL. I was up there a few weeks ago.

    macaro ,

    If you have to use windows 11, use https://github.com/rbleattler/BloatyNosy to clean it up.

    LucidNightmare ,

    And if you are not the most tech savvy, read through the options to make sure it is what you need removed. Removing everything might break some things, because M$.

    I can safely say that removing the telemetry is absolutely essential. Remove it from Firefox, and (ew) Chrome (ew, ew) alongside Windows telemetry because fuck that shit.

    possiblylinux127 ,
    @possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip avatar

    Be really careful as that can open up security holes

    tuxrandom ,

    The only reason I still have Windows are a few games that don't work properly on Linux (via Steam Proton) yet.

    I will keep Windows 10 until Steam no longer supports it or all my games run well on Linux (I check for that occasionally). IDGAF about no longer getting security updates as I have moved everything except for those few games to Linux years ago.

    metaStatic ,

    I multibox a certain game and that is something proton simply can't handle. It's only designed with a single game in mind so each instance runs it's own layer which quickly eats up resources that are never freed up.

    if I'm ever forced to upgrade my base system I guess the first thing I'll do is try my game in a windows VM

    cyberpunk007 ,

    Windows 11 for work, 10 for the games that don't work on manjaro.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
  • incremental_games
  • meta
  • All magazines
    •