Where does the forgiveness come from? After paying for my education I now pay a bunch of taxes, I assume that's what is paying for their education? So the cartoon should say, I just fought and beat cancer and now I need to go work on a cute. "They" cutting cancer is not the same.
A "cure" in this situation means an essentially guaranteed method of treatment. Cancers vary greatly, with some being benign, some being very treatable, and some being extremely deadly (at least with current technology).
My mum beat cancer. She lost parts of her body in the process and chemo changed her physically (her hair and nails never came back the same). It took three years of regular testing to finally be given the "you're officially cancer free" verdict. Three tense years.
All that said she's incredibly lucky not only to have beat it but not to have to live with additional medication due to it. I know somebody who lost a lot more and while is alive now needs a lifetime of medication to "put in" what the partial removed organs no longer produce.
Right now, the main option to "beat" cancer is to poison yourself until enough of the cancerous cells die, along with killing the normal healthy cells. Even then, that only works for certain types of cancer, and that's only if it is treated early enough.
That's very simplistic, there's loads of cancer treatments, what you're describing is a kind of broad brush chemotherapy, but there's lots of more targeted versions, then loads of different pills and potions, immunotherapies, radiotherapies and the good old "cut the thing out" method.
Cancer treatment is the best funded area of medicine and there's loooads of advances going on all the time.
Cancer, as far as I'm aware, goes into remission and isn't cured. Remission is when there isn't any detectable signs of a cancer mass or growth in your body. So imaging doesn't pick up any tumors, your blood work doesn't indicate any hormonal changes, and biopsies come back negative.
A cure would be like say there is no cancer and it won't come back. Remission is more like we have no evidence of cancer and x% of maintain that state for x years.
Fun fact: your body is constantly making cancerous cells, but you have the ability to detect and destroy them before they get out of hand. Keep that immune system strong.
I have to wonder if my generation [Millenial] had any effect on university enrollments yet. My kids aren’t quite the age to talk about education plans as I had kiddos later in life @30yo (40 now). I’ll be strongly discouraging uni unless it’s completely unavoidable to what they want to do.
Same, I'm going to push my kid to do everything they can local. Because even though I don't regret the experiences I had at university, it was a massive waste of money for me.
Yeah I look back fondly on the experiences, the conversations, the environment. But it was worse than a waste of time for me. It was, financially, the worst way I could have spent my first years out of high school.
Yeah I’d definitely rather have them go to one of the community colleges or maybe a more technical school depending on what they want to do. I just want to prevent them from having to live with what might be debt I deal with for the rest of my life. No big University unless they manage a full ride or something, lol. Mean from my mistakes.
Similar boat. Were lucky we were able to move to Europe so my kid has access through the Erasmus network to any college in Europe really. It's a different world over here.
I’ve joked with my wife about sending the kids to Germany as IIRC they have a really good system that is friendly to international students there. But this is me trying to remember stuff from 15-20 years ago lol
I'm approaching 40 and have three kids from 10yo to 1yo, and I'm still going to encourage them going to college, but in a way that makes sense for them. My wife and I both work at a community college, and there's no way our kids are going to go to a 4-year right out of high school (unless they get a full scholarship for something and already know exactly what they want to do).
Too many students don't know what they want to study, don't value the education, and drive themselves into too much debt. While I highly value the education and skills gained in a bachelor's program, there's no need to be going into debt at a university to take first- and second-year courses when community colleges are effectively free (in CA, anyway)
Ship 'em off to Germany and get a free college education. I know a few people that have gone there for grad school for that reason. I wish I had known that was an option...I might still be there, honestly.
Yeah…I agree. I will say I hope I can at least mitigate the debt issue as much as I can because I won’t be able to help pay, and I’m sure by the time my oldest is ready I’ll make too much for him to qualify for much aid. Maybe community college first or a trade school depending on what their interested in.
I mean the numbers still say that a bachelor's degree doubles or triples your lifetime earnings over a high school diploma. Moreover, an educated society benefits everyone. College is still the right move at every scale. What we need to do is make it a more equitable system.
I guess apprenticeships aren't that common yet in the US, but in many countries you can learn a profession not only at uni. In that case the high school diploma isn't the last/highest diploma one would get.
Maybe. Depends on how functional you are overall. Turns out I can pass college courses, but not keep a job so well.
I’m really good at getting high paying jobs, but my executive function is terrible. I can’t keep the jobs.
People with good executive function tend to not be aware of it as a factor. For them “getting that job” is the big uncertain hurdle on their path to success.
Not once in my upbringing all the way through college graduation did anyone talk about keeping jobs. It was all about getting the job. I’ve gotten some pretty amazing jobs … and lost them.
Have you tried a job that works on a more cyclic nature? I struggle with executive function, too, and I tried grad school and I could pass the classes and do the work, but I couldn't finish my dissertation for my PhD program. I eventually realized I did better on an academic schedule and now I teach college classes, so I get to work on the same 12-week quarter system where I did well as a student.
Yeah crossing my fingers there’s some fixes in the works along side any debt forgiveness, but with this political environment and some folks attitude of “F you, I got mine “, I’m doubtful.
I generally encourage kids to just go live a normal life for a few years before college. That way they’re going for something specific they really want to do, and they have an experiential sense of what the dollar amounts mean.
I’m pretty resentful that I had tens of thousands of loans offered to me, far beyond anything my credit would warrant, when I was a teenager, who had been propagandized to go to college for the past ten years of my life.
I feel tricked. Perhaps not on purpose, but I feel like I was tricked.
Are you me? Though i don’t necessarily blame my parents, they just thought that they were encouraging me to do the right thing for my future. I can’t say that my degree was entirely useless but I’d like to think i could have gotten to spot similar to where i am now without the 100k in student loans.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that were true. My coworker and I both got a certification last year. I received a promotion shortly after that, but he didn’t get his until much later. He was thinking it might have to do with me having a bachelor’s while he only has an associates degree. I hope that wasn’t it, but I wouldn’t be surprised. Some corpo stooge having to be convinced the technically senior co-worker with tons of tribal knowledge is fit for a step-up promo….sheesh.
I don't understand why you need all of that. Let's say we agree, next you'll say people deserve clean water and steer the world away from climate disaster and genocide. You <insert group name> want it all!
next you'll say people deserve clean water and steer the world away from climate disaster and genocide.
First falls both under housing and healthcare(utility and preventive healthcare + hygene), genocide is opposite of healthcare and we are already in climate disaster.
This is all I care about. I was forced to refinance into private loans because the interest rates on the federal loans were fucking stupid. All I want is the loans to be more reasonable.
I saw my wife's student loans last night. She took out 37,000 dollars in 2008. She's been paying her monthly amount for over 10 years, and she now only owes 43,000 dollars.
Cancel student debt. Most of us have already paid for college more than once.
Edit: also worth noting that up until now, only about 30% of PSLF applications are approved, and something like 37 (that's total, not percent) of loans are fulfilled using IDR plans.
The Australian model is also interesting. After your degree you pay a certain percentage of your income to your university for a decade or so. But only if you earn more than the average person.
This means a university gets more money when their students gets good job.
The cost of the university course is subsidised by the government. The government pays the majority of the cost, usually around 70-80%. For example, a Bachelor of Computer Science degree at the university I went to (Swinburne) is currently AU$9k/year (~US$5.8k) subsidised vs AU$39k/year (~US$25.4k) full price.
The loans for the amount you have to pay are through the government and are interest free. They're indexed for inflation once per year, but this is a much lower increase compared to interest from a bank loan.
You only have to pay it off once you earn over $51k/year, like you said. Repayments start at 1% of income and are paid as part of your income tax return.
They used to have a program where if you paid $500 or more of the loan upfront, you'd get a 10% discount (so e.g. if you paid $500, it'd reduce your loan balance by $550).
Note that this system only applies to citizens and permanent residents. International students still have to pay the full price. Having said that, Australian universities frequently advertise at college fairs in the USA, as even at the full price plus flights plus accomodation, studying in Australia can still end up cheaper than the USA, and Americans love Australia 🙂
The problem is colleges just will keep charging more because they know people will just keep getting them knowing the gov will cover it eventually. The fix isn't to have the gov. Cover some loans, it should be to stop letting colleges be run like a private sector.
I bet if the government is footing the bill they will demand lower tuition. And unlike lowly poor people, the government is someone they will have to listen to.
You aren't wrong with your point. But both should be true.
John Oliver covered this topic, and according to him, that's not the case at all.
There's sadly no big conspiracy to keep people uneducated. Only basic greed. Simple problem with a simple solution (this is rarely the case) but corporate America will never admit it.
Same, but I want to be reimbursed. I don’t know how people who want their debt forgiven now don’t support me being reimbursed for mine. They seriously set my life back.
Believe me, I get it. I would definitely love to have that $16,000 back.
I'd like for it to be that way too, but I think it's unlikely. On a macro level though, it's just more important to eliminate debt for the indebted, I think.
Yep, only 16k. It hurt to drop that much all at once, but with the way the loans are structured and so little goes to pay down the principal, I think it was worth it in the end.
I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Capitalism fucking sucks.
In March 2020 lots of oil stocks were dropping down to pennies. I bought a bunch on the cheap and it appreciated to a good price when the world reopened. Sold it all to pay off the debt. Sadly still working on my credit cards.
I was pissed about the debt relief until my boss reminded me that school wouldn't have helped me much even had I gone the four-year route or more.
Still pissed I had to settle for a shitty degree at a shitty college, live with an abusive family member and work full-time while I attended in order to get a piece of fucking paper without worrying about debt, only for some politician do decide a couple years later than now is a good time to slap a band-aid on the failing system. But oh well, I've come to expect no less from the government that has told me on separate occasions "yes you are entitled to the program's assistance, but we're not dispensing it because of a technicality nobody told you exists till now". All I have to say to my government is: since you gave me nothing, I owe you nothing-- my skillset is entirely self-built and I have sole discretion over where and how I apply it.
None of the debt relief that happened is any extra relief that shouldn't have happened anyway because of the shit system. People should have had those debts relieved a while ago, but because of awful company administration (like people making payments, but the company's system taking 1 cent less than the minimum, so none of the payments over 10 years counted), those people didn't have the debt relieved, when they should have, based on already existing laws.
I thought it was blatantly obvious that I am aware of that, and cool with it no less.
I'm not saying nobody should have their debt relieved. I'm saying I am more than comfortable holding my resentment towards the government for failing me and my fellow constituent. And that even if some other constituent is happy with this move, I see it as too little too late. I avoided higher education explicitly because I refused to submit to their bullshit system and shoulder inescapable debt without any guarantee of recuperability. In doing so, I passed up on coubtless opportunities. I am allowed to be angry that my wise decision now looks pointless in hindsight.
I did not put myself at the disadvantage-- my government did that for me. And I am mad about it. I will continue to be mad about it. I won't do anything about it. But there may come a day when the government compels me to do something. And I will have valid reason to tell them to kick rocks, if that is what I do choose to do. I owe them nothing.
edit: also, if anyone dislikes my attitude or approach-- that's too bad, because I'm long past the point of caring. When I was given a raw hand all the way from adolescence, I took it and used my spite about it as motivation to obsolete any disadvantage I had to come out on top and as close to unmovable as one could get. The spite kept me from killing myself and went on to mold me into a dangerous son of a bitch Silicone Valley would fight over and AI CEOs gripe that they can't replace. I have unspeakably cozy job security and don't ever have to worry about my future. And I have only my spite and tenacity to thank.
This comic is based on pretty childish thinking. Repaying student loans isn't a cure. It's making everyone else pay the price (either through inflation, through rising education costs, or through direct tax later).
Second, cancer isn't a choice--student loans are.
More accurately would be: I'm going to be so upset if I have to suffer even a little again to help everyone else make up for their bad decisions.
Imagine being this brainwashed. You know where higher education is free? Pretty much the entire civilized world. Guess whether 'murican taxes compare favorably or unfavorably against that?
Your egocentrism is showing, USAian. I don't even know where to begin dismantling your bullshit from how awefully absurd it is.
tuition for prestigious education out of reach of the common person
"Prestigious private education"? Are you joking? The people who take private higher education are effectively ridiculed, not to mention how private schools/colleges are always lacking – e.g. back in the day, when I compared my curriculum (actually prestigious public university) with all relevent private alternatives, they'd always be one year or more behind, which also means they'd finish their course with a huge gap in knowledge.
in many countries there’s a modest fee the government will pay out
Here in Brazil you can get upwards of two minimum wages. How is it that Brazil can afford this, but apparently the US couldn't? Besides that, yes, you may need a side job – that's what non-abusive internship/trainee positions are for. You work a few hours per day at a relevant position to your minor/major to get cash and relevant experience.
They come back at you in the form of decades of tax rates.
Except those decades of taxes ALSO pay for my healthcare (excellent, btw), bicycle infrastructure, to maintain parks, to protect local fauna and flora, for libraries, etc etc
The places where real power concentrates, where the old royalty gathers. Not the best in terms of scientific endeavours, but that’s not what those places are about anyway. It’s all about making connections.
I.E. completely irrelevant. Got it.
Double minimum wage in the USA is barely enough to cover rent in the cities
The fix seems pretty obvious, eh?
would add $553 billion
I.E., even ignoring the fact that not all students would require this monetary assistance, less than the budget for the 'murican war machine. Seems fine to me.
you’re quickly paying 85% of the $30k you’re receiving in tuition fees alone
???? Why would they be paying the tuition fees with free public education available?
I went to a top university in Norway. My tuition was about $80 per year. All in all various student discounts on everything from haircuts to car repairs to housing, my tuition was effectively negative. I spent a good chunk on books, but rarely used them, and honestly could have saved the money. Considering everyone gets a scholarship from the government for the first 7 years (would have been converted to a loan if I didn't pass enough credits worth of classes), I effectively got paid to study. I still had student loans, because they were interest free while I was a student and cheaper than a mortgage after. I spent some on food and housing, and saved the rest. Like most Norwegians I was not in a hurry to pay it down. Student debt is generally low priority for Norwegians to pay down due to the cheap interest.
Besides your ad hominem attacks you changed the whole point of the discussion. "Free" is not the same as asking everyone to pay for anyone's college education.
Usual 'murican take. Do you use roads? Do you use clean water? I would ask about public transit, but you're a 'murican, so I already know the answer to that is "no".
Everyone already pays for the State to exist. Civilized countries use that money to benefit all citizens through free higher education, free healthcare, free public transportation, etc. The US uses that money to kill children in the middle east and to bail out huge corporations.
It's a false assumption that because that is the way things are that it is the way things ought to be, and that they couldn't be arrived any other (much less any better way).
This is a pretty typical response to any limitations on government--"but who will build the roads?"
There are two basic problems
1st: Your unwritten implication is that if government does these basic things then it must necessarily assert even bigger economic control--such as higher education--which is a false deduction.
2nd: You imply that only the government can do these things or that government does it best. Also a false deduction. Practical experience says otherwise.
Practical experience with what, shoveling bullshit around and expecting people to believe your nonsense? Get the fuck outta here with your corporate bootlicking.
Fuck y'all. I chose to not go to college and went with a lower paying career field as a trade off for lower earning potential. Using the tax dollars I've paid over the years to help eliminate the negative trade off everyone else chose to take on when they went to college is crap.
Because it would still be $60,000 plus interest, plus the other costs associated with going to college.
If just going to public university and paying that is no big deal, then i guess no one needs their college debt wiped, since everyone had that same option.
From the school of “I suffered through [x], so therefore everyone else should suffer, too, even if they don’t need to.”
There’s always going to be a cutoff point where someone has it harder or easier than those that came before. That’s just life. As long as the change wasn’t malicious, just feel good (or whatever is appropriate) for those that benefit from it.
I work in a highly contract-controlled industry, and when things improve there’s always a segment of the group that might be close to retirement or something and gets all pissed that they didn’t won’t realize the benefits of a change that will apply mostly to those that will have longer under the change. They’re the same ones that bitch that new employees didn’t suffer under whatever crappy work rules that might have existed before, too.
So yeah…people that paid off their loans, or guys that I work with that paid for some/all of their kid’s college, bitch about people catching a break on their loans. STFU and be happy that someone else caught a break.
I'm glad I was taught not to begrudge and feel envy of other. I learned later in life that there are some insecure tw@ts who'd like to drag others down.
This is a shit metaphor. In reality no one should be angry if there is a cure simply because they didn’t have to use it. Some cancer cannot just be beaten so yea, let them have the cure. Move on That’s just childish view on cancer.
Student loans however yes, but for fuck sakes do not just compare such shit to cancer.
Checking my bank balance, and seeing this ugly growth that endlessly consumes while yielding nothing but anxiety and pain. Knowing that this ball of debt is intrinsic to my existence, but that a mutation in its purpose has transformed it from benevolent symbiote to voracious parasite. Talking to specialists and professionals about how to remove it, but hearing how my options are - themselves - often life-threatening or at least misery inducing for months or years at a time, and that there's no real guarantee the growth can be removed as a result. Hearing how other people who were richer than me got a benign treatment much earlier on and are no longer suffering. Recognizing that there's a national program to provide treatment in other countries, but we can't import it because that would mean engaging with evil socialists.
It absolutely is not. you have no clue what you are talking about. Even if you refuse to understand and just want to self center ruminate your issues, you could at least make an effort to stop being an insensitive piece of shit to the people who are not the ones at fault for the situation you are in.
It absolutely is. You have no clue what you are talking about. Even if you refuse to understand and just want to self center whine about other people's issues, you could at least stop being an insensitive piece of shit tonthe people who are not the ones at fault for the situation they are in.
