This analogy doesn't really work though. Most people don't willingly receive cancer. I think the thought process is you chose to borrow that money now it's your responsibility to pay it back. If you worked an entire year to pay off your student loan debt and another person doesn't work and their loans are paid off, you worked an entire year for free. Essentially slave labor. Anyone would be grateful when someone beats cancer but watching everyone around you get free handouts while you did what you are supposed to, I can see why people aren't a fan of the idea. I paid off my student loans during COVID and I never expected any money back but I'd be lying if I said getting that money back now would not be extremely helpful in my life. I'm grateful that people are getting their loans forgiven. College shouldn't cost remotely what it does.
It is for a large number of jobs though. So its attempt to do what you want with your life or don't take the predatory loan. It's a shit situation all round.
When I was a kid, my parents were able to set aside money for my benefit in advance so that when I started college I had enough for tuition, housing, and a car. When I graduated, I even had enough left over for a down payment on a starter home.
I didn't get to choose this. It was decided for me the day I was born. It was given to me purely by dint of who my parents happened to be and where I lived. In other countries, everyone has access to this level of public health carecough excuse me cough higher education. But I had to rely on a private system that rewarded people with the means to accumulate financial surplus.
Also, my mom smoked when she was younger. But when she started trying to get pregnant, she quit. If she'd continued smoking through the pregnancy, it would have significantly increased my chance to develop some form of childhood cancer. Again, this was not something I got to choose. It was purely a consequence of my parents' decisions.
For me, during college, I got my first credit card. Between student loans and credit cards, I've been set up to fail at every turn. I have a crap ton of debt. My student loans? Paid in full. But the fact that I was paying them for nearly 15 years, and the money that took from me while I did it caused me to get deeper in debt from other sources of debt that has led me to be in a position where I'm still just as much in debt as I was when I graduated. The debt has shifted from student loans to mostly credit cards, but it hasn't gotten any smaller. I'm pretty sure I owe more now than I did when I graduated.
Financial debt compounds. Not only on itself, but it creates deficiencies in other areas requiring more debt to maintain balance. It grows like a cancer.
Sure, you can declare bankruptcy, and fuck yourself over for your ability to get any loans, but will that actually help? Does your income conver your expenses? Are you making a living wage? If not, and you go bankrupt, you might be screwing yourself over. It might be better to simply continue the cycle of violence until you earn enough to cover what you need to, then, when you're cash positive, declare it at that point.
I've been on the debt treadmill for over 20 years now. I continue to find myself in situations that require large sums to get resolved. Whether that's a broken vehicle, or another critical item I have to immediately pay for which was unexpected, or simple daily needs that have to be purchased when I'm at a low point in the availability of money. It grows.
I keep trying. I haven't needed to declare bankruptcy yet; but my debts are attached to me like a cancer, slowly killing me by starving my finances.
I'm not even poor. I work a decently well paying job. I'm just so heavily in debt, that I can't get out of it.
I hear what you're saying but you have to put a little more thought into this beyond "you pay for what you get". A lot of professions still need specialization but do not offer commensurate remuneration with respect to cost of entry. I'll give you some examples:
Teachers
Historians
Social workers
Architects
I could go on. It's a long list. The world still needs teachers and social workers, but we are far from adequately compensating for these industries. When you adopt a utilitarian approach to education (as a pipeline that leads directly to a career track) you are limiting the potential of the nation to improve/grow. A humanist approach to education promotes a more universal type of growth where we can foster the best talent towards achieving their full potential. Otherwise we end up with a situation in which the humanities and arts are segregated exclusively for the affluent members of society because the cost of entry is high but the output is low.
I'm all for student loan forgiveness and all that. I think education should be socialised for anyone till any level.
That being said, this meme is an example of false equivalency. Where is the money for student loan forgiveness coming from? From taxes. Taxes that these ppl (who also had to pay for student loans) have to pay. Hence, effectively, these guys paid their own loans off and are contributing to pay others' loans as well. That's their grime from what I understand.
Morally, I believe that they're wrong. I'm just pointing out the false equivalency generated here.
In this analogy tabacco is the pervayor of cancer. Likened to how banks make predatory student loans. When ever we have to bail out the banks or corporations we are told, "they are too big to fail."
As if an educated population is less important than the financial institutions that they uphold.
You might be taking it too literally. It's a joke because the take is bad, on purpose. The entire point is people unironically have this position on student loans when it's obviously fucking stupid to have that opinion on anything.
More like, "we've invented a cure for cancer, but only people who have cancer right now can get it. People in the future are fucked once again and won't get the cure."
Loan forgiveness without making education affordable going forward doesn't solve the problem. It's pulling up the ladder.
Exactly , rather than only forgiving existing loans that should make education free and also forgive existing loans , and perhaps give people who have already paid off their loan some kind of stimulus check as a kind of recognition that their struggle was just as hard as everyone else's and they deserve a break too.
What about those of us that didn't go outright because we couldn't afford it nor get the loans?
... I'd still be more than happy if education was made free, but there are A LOT of people the system has fucked and Democrats barely even want to glance at the lowest hanging fruit.
Again. No one who is for student loan forgiveness is outright against assistance for low wage earners. They are not linked. If its who gets the bite at the apple first than do every thing you can to remove the GOP from power.
Yea, keep wondering why while pretending Democrats aren't still a lesser evil. Notice how "lesser evil" is still evil. It doesn't matter how much you screech about which is better. Some don't like voting for anything evil.
I'm not scaring you to do anything but realize you have no saviors to choose from. Do not view the Dems as a WIN, but as merely staving off destruction.
Pretending we are in any kind of good shape is pure foolishness.
I'm not fucking happy about it at all and I've said so since 2020. Quit it with the angst and lashing out. This all ends when we collectively say it ends. Until then it's fuck fuck games of protecting the innocent.
Isn't the lowest hanging fruit exactly what they're targeting, i.e. the people who currently have loans, and the higher hanging fruit all the other circumstances people are mentioning here like already paid off their loans or future student who will get loans or in your case people who forewent becoming a student due to the loans?
Yew, my point is they are ONLY targeting the lowest hanging fruit.
I bring it up NOT to just poopoo on Democrats, but to offer perspective. An inflatable life raft should NEVER be viewed as a fully functioning, sea-worthy vessel, and inflatable rafts is all Democrats ever offer, let alone fight for.
Yes, that's better than the sabotaged canoe Republicans offer, but again, it's about perspective. Some people are not OK with celebrating a dingy like it's a ship.
What I don't get, is that what moderates keep saying...
You know, the people that constantly shit on progressives and claim we don't want anything unless it's everything.
Isn't the whole moderate mission to take what we can get now and keep working for more? I'm not saying that's what they actually do, that's just their excuse for not fighting for more.
So shouldn't the ones pushing for loan forgiveness now and fixing the underlying issue later be the moderates?
Instead they say if we can't 100% fix the problem in perpetuity, we can't do anything.
Exactly. Arguing that you're against helping people now because it doesn't go far enough is ridiculous. Help people now. Then continue helping people. Don't let perfect be the enemy of progress.
Take the win, and use that momentum to drive mode change.
There's a difference between a start and means testing tho...
Those same moderates like to use means testing to erode away support for more, and to get the people who don't make the cut to vote against it.
It's how moderates have been opposing universal healthcare for over 80 years.
Social Security was supposed to be a temporary compromise to help the neediest while the government worked out the wrinkles for universal healthcare that was for everyone.
It's because moderates are what conservatives claim to be. They are pro-status quo and keeping change as show as possible (as opposed to conservatives that just want hierarchical power structures that let them exercise power over others, no matter what changes are required).
Well observed. Conservatives in the US are reactionary but those described as moderates are basically NIMBYs standing in the way of those who want to tear down what's left of the country.
Loan forgiveness without making education affordable going forward doesn't solve the problem. It's pulling up the ladder.
You're 100% correct. But be careful, these folks don't take kindly to shining a light on their hypocrisy. They signed their names to a legally-binding contract, spent the money, but now don't like paying it back under the terms they agreed to.
College tuition is far too high. But without fixing the root cause, tuition loan forgiveness does nothing for everyone before and after, and it actually makes the whole problem worse.
Blaming the people taking the loans is kind of absurd, for many it's their only option if they want to continue their education. It's not like they're taking out loans they don't need and burning the money.
"Legally-binding contract" is meaningless too, would you make the same argument against people who signed away their lives before slavery was abolished? Just because it's legal now doesn't mean it always will be, or that it must be enforced indefinitely.
You're absolutely right that reducing tuition is the right move. Tuition is free where I am and some of the costs I see elsewhere are crazy. However, the options are not necessarily mutually exclusive; you can reduce tuition and help people that have already been shafted by the existing system.
Especially cause a lot of 'legally binding' stuff isn't even actually legally binding. For a recent example look at non competes, a lot of judges don't even enforce them cause they're ridiculous and they actually just made them illegal for the little people.
No. That's mighty presumptive of you. Play the game as the rules are. I'm suggesting loan forgiveness is a half-measure and it never should have been offered by politicians without solving the problem of unaffordable education. Otherwise, this isn't a solution, it's just a band-aid on a gaping still-bleeding wound that needs stitches. It doesn't solve the problem, but it does create inequity.
Lol you really couldn't help yourself. Just one reply and you reveal that you're actually just a selfish piece of shit. Maybe just shut up while you're ahead next time. You're a garbage person but people don't have to know on the Internet if you don't make it so abundantly clear.
No YOU are the piece of shit. Why can't we debate without unwarranted ad hominems any more? This place is supposed to be better than reddit, but that asks that its users be better. Your post is an indictment - take a look in the mirror before being so vile on the fediverse.
You know adults can usually communicate their point without resorting to insulting those who have different opinions. You don't seem to have a point, just insults.
We could do both, but you asked why it was being down voted. The down voted text says that politicians never should have offered loan forgiveness. They explicitly said we shouldn't do both.
Because it completely ignores the fact that it does solve the problem for a lot of people, and they don't want to do it because it doesn't help everyone.
So we should just not let the people currently sick have the cure? 🤔
Even in your analogy, curing any cancer today, even if it doesn't extend to future sufferers, is an improvement over curing no one. Because fuck cancer, and fuck student loans.
Declare that future student loans are also automatically forgiven. You take a student loan tomorrow? You don't have to pay it back. This, of course, will mean that no one will want to give student loans - which will force the tuition down.
At that point why not just cut out the lenders entirely and make college free/publicly funded for all students like they do in Germany? An educated population yields many returns for a society and it will pay for itself with the boost to our economy it would provide.
I thought the U.S. government already took all the loans. So wouldn't the lender be the U.S. government, and the interest goes to paying for the companies managing the loans I would assume. My interest rate on some of my loans went from 2.4% to 4.8% if I remember correctly (was sometime between 2008-2012 time period). I don't believe students can go to a bank and get private student loans unless there is some loopholes. That said, cancelling student loan debt would simply mean not paying themselves back. Student loans are tax deductible as well, so when you pay them it would essentially come out of your taxes income, so if you could magically pay 10k off one year, it should come off your highest taxes income bracket. I still owe some, but I'd be fine with at least making it free college for AS/AA and 0% interest on student loans past that for all new takers. If they could make it free for BS/BA I'm still fine with being stuck with mine so long as we can figure out how to fix it for the future generations.
Interesting wonder why they confiscated all of those back then. I looked it up and 7.2% are private and the other 92.8% are owned by the federal government. I didn't think those existed anymore. Mine were all through JP Morgan when I went to college and those all got taken by the government.
US student finance is for sure broken. I really hate comparing biological ills to social, though. Nobody graduates high school and says "I'm going to go sign up for cancer". Nobody says "well, if I knew cancer was going to be cured, I would have got it instead of being a plumber!" This metaphor is breaking down rapidly.
Nobody graduates high school and says "I'm going to go sign up for cancer".
Maybe not in a literal sense, but there are plenty of people who apply for jobs which pose inherent danger to health, including increased risks of cancers, because they need the money.
No one signs up for college to take on all that student debt just because they enjoy it, it's seen as an investment in better job prospects to have a degree despite the financial risk of debt. This is at least somewhat similar to how more dangerous jobs pay more, because you take on a risk. You've got physical danger and financial danger to consider based on your choice. Sometimes both.
People who have paid off their student loans are allegedly opposed to the government forgiving student loans for people that are financially burdened by them.
I worked my ass off to pay off my student loans, and I wish it upon no one. It didn't teach me shit except fuck capitalism. School should be socialized and free. And fuck cancer!
I'm still paying off loans and will be for the next 8 years. I'm ineligible for forgiveness now because I consolidated with a private lender. I hope everyone gets their debt wiped, even if I can't. Education should be free to begin with.
A common “reason” for why student loans shouldn’t be paid off by the government is that it would be unfair to everyone who has already paid off their student loans.
In the US it’s common for people to say that they shouldn't cancel student loan debts because it would be unfair to people who have already paid theirs back.
They're generally not. But a few well-situated op-ed writers working for newspapers with a vested interest in the private loan industry have expressed a great deal of outrage.
I actually beat cancer. If they suddenly find a cure for cancer now I am going to be so fucking happy! This comment is about student loans...and fuck cancer.
Congratulations! I also hope they find a cure for cancer and I would be so happy if they did. I've never been diagnosed with it so I have no bearing on this conversation. Fuck cancer.
This comment is also about student loans. (Which I've had and paid and still hope they grant loan forgiveness, tyvm).
