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2024 is going to be the beginning of the end of us all

No I’m not catastrophising.

The world is slowly lurching towards a fully fascist led America, India, Hungary, Russia, Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Argentina.

Instead people are either ignorant or blaming “wokeism”* for their problems.

I have no clue what to do and this is literally a car crash in slow motion.

I’m despondent because I’m going to be crushed under the boot when the time comes and my morals get in the way of my survival instinct.

Humans are repeating the mistakes of the past. It’s just so anxiety inducing.

*Woke is a useless term promulgated by fascists to dog whistle the things they really want to hate - feminism, socialism, LGBTQIA+, immigration, brown/black people, equality and diversity.

Vinny_93 ,

I understand how you might feel this way. But a key difference to the early 1930s is that there are many large-scale protests against far right extremism in Germany. The elections in the Netherlands did produce a right wing tendency, but there is no government as of yet and the PVV is still pretty far away from fascism. The other three large winners of the election are not even that right wing. At least no more than the party that ruled for the last 15 years.

That said, I do kinda hope that this phase passes quickly and that people will start to finally get along and care about our fellow humans. Even though we never have.

Micromot ,

The protests in germany give me hope that the german public finally resists against fascism instead of just letting it happen and then saying "there's nothing that could have been done" afterwards

Serinus ,

I expect the US will hold out for at least the next 4.5 years. After that, no promises.

swab148 ,
@swab148@startrek.website avatar

I expect that the US will last five years, what's the bet?

Powerpoint ,

4.5 years is optimistic with an election pending

MrJameGumb ,
@MrJameGumb@lemmy.world avatar

I hate to say this but I've honestly just gotten used to the idea at this point. I've been watching the people around me howling in support of fascism since about 2015 now and the more egregious these politicians crimes become the louder these idiots seem to howl for them. It's been going so long that it's just part of the background noise of day to day life now, and I'm tired of caring anymore. It's fucking depressing.

Daft_ish , (edited )

How can we convince people now is the time to act? What more information do we need? I think most people are clinging to the idea everything is business as usual. As long as they can keep the lights on they wouldn't want to upset the stability they've managed to make for themselves.

noobdoomguy8658 ,

As a Russian who's been thinking about what could've been done about Putin's many moves towards authoritarianism, I say this: I don't know. I dint think anyone knows either.

indsight is 20/20, so good luck trying to convince people to act now, before the far and distant future is here; it's probably part of our nature to not be that much concerned with the long-term, as it's the short- to mid-term that keeps us alive, i.e. fed, sheltered, hopefully healthy etc.

At this point, it feels like history is indeed very cyclical, at least society is, and now anyone left of outright fascism seems to be in minority, with many others either failing or refusing to recognise what's likely coming. I don't think it's new, either - I'm sure people of our ages had things to compare their situation to during the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent events, just like we look back to their times and wonder how in the world could we possibly let that happen.

It's probably best to vote and to protest and to be politically active and all that, before the right-wing or some other authoritarian group manages to manipulate its way into your government, local or higher, and start doing all it can to make you not even think of voting or protesting or being politically active. The caveat is you just don't have any guarantees that any of that is going to work.

What's even more important to remember is the fact that we cannot come up with some universal solution that's going to always work the best way possible in every political and economical and social circumstance. This is what makes recording history and experience so important - it will allow us and those that will be after us to analyse the multitudes of factors and tendencies that lead to things and hopefully figure out reliable and effective and predictable mechanisms for society to function and prosper in mutual respect, egalitarianism, support, etc.

My last take is probably a little controversial: I think we shouldn't ostracise people we see as fascist or right-wing or authoritarian, etc., but rather be welcoming and supporting, giving them respect, community and opportunity to speak and be listened to with kindness and understanding; many turn to violent and inhumane ideologies because, well, they don't value themselves, feel threatened, humiliated, afraid, or something along these lines. It doesn't have to be true, because it's about how people feel, and we must work with how people feel and influence that on emotional level so they feel like they being in a group that's based on being "anti-woke" or just "anti-" something - that's a dead end; they should feel like they belong to groups that envision future and prosperity, where people know they can be trusted and can trust, where they can respect and be respected. You may not like it, but you have to understand that the human psyche can be very flexible and eventually turn a person you could easily turn into a human-loving ally into a bloodthirsty fascist just because they couldn't find their place anywhere else, so instead they're easily picked up by a group that manipulates confused and lost people into a sense of community and belonging.

Fascism has to be the unappealing option for them, and that requires a mind healthy from trauma and loneliness, the lack of that feeling like you've been played and robbed of something you own - like some great historical period the mouthpieces promise to get you back into if you yell at teenage girls for wearing bright-colored hair and rainbow pins.

erev ,
@erev@lemmy.world avatar

I agree with your controversial take, however it's important to note that a lot of this fascist rhetoric relies on misinformation which is spread far quicker and further than the truth. And the neofascism that has taken hold is very in-group oriented (i.e. the concepts that the in group is by definition morally virtuous and thus can do no real harm, whereas the out-group is the opposite) which is difficult to break down with logic and rhetoric. That's not to say it can't be done, but in terms of conversion (purely as a metric, i don't mean to be oberly reductionist) it will always be one step forward three back. And if they people don't approach a conversation in good faith it can be downright impossible to get them to even fathom a differing perspective. What I'm saying is that the new breed of fascists rely solely on dogma and groupthink, and have been trained to reject any rebuttal or outside perspective. They took what the old fascists did well and optimized it and trained people in it for the past 70+ years.

lemmyreader ,

Yes, fully agree, we're living in post apocalypse times :( Climate crisis will cause more casualties, and the rising fascism will do so as well. There's usual housing crisis, and the hyped A.I. as well among others.

In your list of countries you can add Belgium as well. In fact today it is hard to think of a country in Europe which has shown zero far right or fascism sentiments nowadays. It is difficult to focus on positive things but things like solidarity, keeping in touch with like minded people, de-growth, D.I.Y. and de-googling can help.

Holzkohlen ,

Well, at least that will take your mind off global warming. Which is good since we have already hit 1.5°C of warming.

Mog_fanatic ,

1.5 and we're just getting started! Let's goooooo! It's incredible what humans can do when we work together 🔥👏🏻🔥👏🏻🔥

lars ,

You are a horrible person to make me laugh so hard at our folly

fluidrock78 ,

I suggest target practice, that way you won't get crushed by boots....and you can resist any fascist in your area, and encourage others in your immediate area to do the same.

Start a club, and then you can hold parties, where you show each other new knowledge, and help others to protect themselves....and fight against all the fascist hordes!

PopOfAfrica ,

This isn't Red Dawn. People will quickly find out how inadequate they are against a military.

psycho_driver ,

When real conflict begins domestically it will be drones being used by those in power. Guns won't do much good.

VampyreOfNazareth ,

Better learn spark gap jammers then

Seleni ,

But odds are it won’t be the military. At least, not at first. It will most likely start with all those right-wing punisher-worshipping nutters who want an excuse to shoot ‘the liburlz’, with local cops either helping out or staying out of the way, and the government conveniently ignoring everything. Or at least, that’s how it’s tended to go in the past.

(See kristallnacht, Tulsa race massacre, Wilmington massacre, Rosewood massacre, Ocoee massacre…)

And those local assholes can be repelled with guns.

Attack0fthenerd ,

John Brown gun club or Socialist Rifle Association are out there... also there are plenty of paramilitary and social fascist groups to protect yourself against. Proud boys, border nutjobs, don't listen to naysayers about learning to defend yourself. It's not just military with tanks and planes. It's your back the blue neighbor you have to worry about...

tubaruco ,

alright now im really confused. how does the world devolving into fascism bring complete anarchy? aren't those completely different things?

SaltyIceteaMaker ,
@SaltyIceteaMaker@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

I don't even have the energy to keep resisting the endless flow of bullshit anymore. It gets worse from day to day. What bothers me the most is that it's gotten so bad that i turned apathetic to it. If someone starts spewing right wing bullshit i just zone out until they finished. In the end I won't be directly affected by a right wing leadership in my country but i still can't stand the idea. All the progress we have made in the last few years in terms of equality would just go to waste

Gilles_D ,

I won’t be directly affected by a right wing leadership

Well, you know that famous quote where in the end there’s no one to fight for you when they come for you?

SaltyIceteaMaker ,
@SaltyIceteaMaker@iusearchlinux.fyi avatar

That's why i said directly. I will definitely be affected in some form at dome point

ExLisper , (edited )

I think that instead of it being the end we will simply learn that fully fascist world is actually quite good for business and nothing will change for vast majority of people. I'm not saying it will be good. It will be worse, just not as bad as you think.

Edit: I guess I should have said "fully fascist" with ' " '. What I'm saying is that the world is moving to the right, yes, but it's not collapsing into fascist states. OP is being overly pessimist. The whole world is not turning into US.

SuiXi3D ,
@SuiXi3D@kbin.social avatar

Unless you’re any color but white, or any gender but male.

ExLisper ,

Make up your mind. OP is also worried about India. Only white people will be fine in India? You pretend to be worried about the whole world but very quickly show that you're actually only worried about the western countries.

SuiXi3D ,
@SuiXi3D@kbin.social avatar

Being that I live in Texas, it’s been really tough for me to worry about anything but over here. But you’re right, we’re certainly not the only place dealing with this kind of shit. Apologies.

PizzaMane , (edited )

nothing will change for vast majority of people.

Historically that has proven to be false. The majority of Germans, whether targets of the nazis or not, had their lives upended.

just not as bad as you think.

Genocide is extremely bad

ExLisper ,

I guess what I'm saying is that there will be no world war or genocides. Was that really so difficult to understand? Like, you really think I was suggesting that genocide is not that bad?

I'm starting to love the groupthink here. "The world is ending. Yes, yes, it's the end. Let's down-vote anyone slightly less pessimistic".

PizzaMane ,

I guess what I’m saying is that there will be no world war or genocides.

Then you don't understand fascism.

Like, you really think I was suggesting that genocide is not that bad?

People suggest that all the time.

ExLisper ,

Then you don’t understand fascism.

Ok, I guess we'll see who was right in a couple of years. But I'm genuinely surprised so many people think we will have nuclear apocalypse in a couple of years. Sounds more like silly groupthink and coping than honest concern. But if you really think you're a year or two away for unimaginable suffering or death I feel for you. Has to be terrible.

MegaUltraChicken ,
@MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world avatar

Pretty much all of history dealing with fascism disagrees with you. That alone justifies the concern. I haven't seen anyone say the world is a year or two away from unimaginable suffering or death. But there is a very clear path to unimaginable suffering or death in front of us. We've seen the path of fascism taken before. We know what happens. We have historical and academic research that backs it up that we can compare to today.

Saying (without any evidence) that people are overreacting sounds much more like a coping mechanism to me. People are saying "hey we should really check out this smoke billowing under the door" and you're telling everyone they're being silly because you can't see any fire.

ExLisper ,

Dude, the topic of this post is "2024 is going to be the beginning of the end of us all". It says "No I’m not catastrophising.", " I’m going to be crushed" and "The world is slowly lurching towards a fully fascist ...".

Now you're trying to say it all just means “hey we should really check out this smoke billowing under the door”. Jesus fucking Christ, you really don't see it? To prove how wrong I am claiming OP is exaggerating you yourself had to tone down his rhetoric by 90%. If the OP would say "Hey, we should be careful or the extreme right will take over and dismantle some of our rights" I would totally agree. But yeah, keep pretending he was reasonable and I disagreed with his totally rational, toned down arguments.

MegaUltraChicken ,
@MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world avatar

So what exactly are you disagreeing with? You just don't like their word choice? Because "Hey we should he careful or the extreme right will take over and dismantle our rights" is exactly what I get from OP. They specifically stated this is the beginning, it's happening slowly, and they feel they would be a target if we continue on the same trajectory. What's incorrect/hyperbolic here?

ExLisper ,

If you think '2024 is going to be the beginning of the end of us all' means "Hey, let's be careful" than sadly I can't help you with your poor reading comprehension.

Dendrologist ,

I want to get mad at your apathy, but really, it just makes me sad.

Of course it won't be the end. In the same way climate disaster isn't the end of the world, but it is the end of the world as we know it.

A fascist takeover of many of the most powerful countries in the world wouldn't mean the end for all, but it does mean the end for whoever is deemed "other". In the case of 1930s/40s Germany, that was political opponents, Jews, disabled, and LGBT people.

Today and in the future, who knows what arbitrary definition of a person will be chosen to make people "other". It could be anything from traditional hate categories like race or sexuality to something new like length of hair.

I don't know what kind of person you are but you clearly feel confident that you won't be one of the ones on the receiving end of violence and the fact you think that's okay because it's not happening to you is so... depressing. If you don't have a moral compass for the sake of others, at least try and have one for the sake of yourself because as fascism rears its head, whatever demographic you fall into may be next at the receiving end of the violence.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

ExLisper ,

you think that’s okay

Where did I say that? Just because I don't agree with your extremely pessimist predictions means I think fascism is OK? WTF?

America, India, Hungary, Russia, Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Argentina.

America, India and Russia where a terrible, terrible places for democracy and minorities for decades now. Only because you're just now waking up to this fact doesn't mean the world is sliding into fascism.

Netherlands, Germany and Italy still operate inside EU and still follow all the rules. EU has powerful tools for enforcing those rules, they just managed to force Hungary to back down over Ukraine funding. Poland just had w big swing to the left, as did Spain. EU is sliding to the right, yes, but it's more a typical, generational shift than embrace of fascism.

Argentina has terrible economic issues, their populism is completely different.

Basically what's going on is that the American illusion of a democracy is finally collapsing and since I don't think it's the end of the world I'm OK with fascism. We all should hold hands with Americans and help them cope with the realization their country is not as great as they thought....

theneverfox ,

I really don't think you understand what facism really is...I think you're looking at Republicans flirting with openly enacting facism, and thinking "well, if it's just to that degree it'll be ok"

Facism is like this - you have an authoritarian group, and they promise a perfect world if only everyone believed their ideology.

But their ideology is garbage, and so we're going to have problems. And so they're going to look around and say "it's LGBT people, they're ruining everything!". Then they're going to directly or indirectly outlaw their existence, and use that to imprison them.

They'll milk it for as long as they can... But as this goes on, you get more and more "true believers" who escalate and speed up the process

But that's not going to fix anything, obviously. So they'll look around again for people they can declare different... Maybe it's black people, or Mexicans, or alleged spies from China. Maybe it's stem workers, or college grads. Maybe it's just anyone who doesn't play along hard enough, and we go the ideological purity route

But again, that's only going to make things worse, so they'll have to find someone else to target. They require an enemy to blame for everything that goes wrong. And a lot is going to go wrong...

You can say this is all hyperbolic, but it's really not. The Nazis started just like this, with book bans, control over education, and going after trans people. Then they went after political opposition, then things really got into swing.

ExLisper ,

Oh, ok, I see what's going on here. You see, since you started listing all those other countries I thought you actually are referring to global situation. Now I see you're only talking about USA, That's why I said you're exaggerating. USA is not the whole world. The world will be fine. USA taking more isolationist stance may even be good for everyone else. But thanks for explaining to me, an European, what fascism is. We really don't know anything about it here. Only Americans understand this phenomenon. Can you also explain to me what democracy and freedom is?

mellowheat ,

fully fascist world is actually quite good for business

How does this work?

ExLisper ,

Same way capitalism and globalization is good for business? Right wing parties tend to oppose social policies and promote income inequality which is good for corporations. Again, not saying it will be good for us. Just that we've seen couple if shifts to the right like this already. In a decade or two it will shift back to the left. Except in US, there the empire will collapse but is questionable if it will be net negative for the world.

VampyreOfNazareth ,

America eventually does the right thing after exhausting every other option.

theluckyone ,

Spoken like a good little bootlicker.

Best keep that tongue on that boot, lest it steps on you instead. Same goes for those businesses under a fascist government. I'm sure life will be good for them, especially if they don't mind the taste of leather.

Remove their tongue from the boot, and business won't be good for them.

ExLisper ,

I wonder what you're doing about the imminent world war that's so brave and non-bootlicking.

theluckyone ,

Speaking up and calling out fascist behavior. Not spending my money on businesses that promote fascists. Voting. Keeping my long barrel in good condition, may it never need to be used.

Soap, ballot, jury, and cartridge boxes, in that order.

ExLisper ,

So posting on lemmy and boycotting businesses you don't like. Awesome.

Hey guys, don't worry about the future, this guy will totally stop fascism. We're fine.

theluckyone ,

Better than trying to lick my way to the center of a boot while making disingenuous jabs on Lemmy.

ExLisper ,

Sure sure, keep repeating that to yourself.

theluckyone ,

Even for a bootlicker, you seem especially bitter, sarcastic, and downtrodden. Might help to find someone licensed to talk that out. Ain't healthy keeping it bottled up, and spewing vitriol on Lemmy doesn't help anyone.

ExLisper ,

Are you talking about me or yourself now? Seams like you intended this for me but you actually perfectly described your comments.

theluckyone ,

Add projection to the list, too. You're just trolling, now. Good luck with that.

ExLisper ,

Really? Please, point out the vitriol in my comments. You're the one talking about licking boots all the time. You're the abusive one here. (Of course I don't expect you to realize it now, you don't strike me a s someone capable of admitting they were wrong)

theluckyone ,

You're the one extolling the virtues of fascism.

ExLisper ,

You just didn't understand what you read and got triggered. Relax, go for a walk or something.

theluckyone ,

"I think that instead of it being the end we will simply learn that fully fascist world is actually quite good for business and nothing will change for vast majority of people. I'm not saying it will be good. It will be worse, just not as bad as you think."

My understanding of your statement: Fascism is good for business! Sure, it's bad for some people, but most people won't even notice it. There's good things about fascism that you're not aware of. It's not all bad!

Triggered? Hardly. I'm not about to let a comment like the above go untouched for the bullshit it is, however.

You need to take a walk down to your local library and read some history books.

ExLisper ,

I’m not saying it will be good. It will be worse, just not as bad as you think.

Missed that part? I'm selling fascism by saying it will be worse? What do you think is it? Reverse psychology?

nothing will change for vast majority of people.

A lot of people already live under extreme right wing governments (Russia, India, Venezuela, Iran, Israel.. the list goes on), not much will change there. A lot of people live in very stable democracies that also will not get affected by those changes. I believe majority of people will be fine. Is that supporting fascism?

Would slide to the right be good for business? Probably, corporations like right wing governments. Global economy will not collapse, there will be no world war III. Wow, what a strong statement of support for fascism!

You saw someone not crying out loud that fascist will kill as all and got triggered, simple.

theluckyone ,

You're minimizing, plain and simple, by accentuating the positive aspects and softening the negative. Generally folk minimizing are in support of the thing they claim to be in opposition of.

If that's not your intent, then you really need to work on your communication skills.

As for being triggered, you're wrong. I believe you're projecting. Might the cause be all those down votes your posts are receiving? Sure, they don't mean much... Other than each vote meaning one person disagrees with you. Some folk can't handle that well.

ExLisper ,

Generally folk minimizing are in support of the thing they claim to be in opposition of.

That's a really dumb statement. Being realistic is not minimizing. Minimizing is not supporting.

If I create a post saying "Climate change will kills us all by 2025" and you'll will disagree you're minimizing and supporting oil industry? Not agreeing with obviously wrong statements is now bootlicking?

Basically for you, anything that's not agreeing with the groupthink is supporting the other side, no matter the arguments. This sort of stupid, reactionary thinking only creates bubbles and turns away potential supporters. It's like when protesters in US were calling for 'abolishing police' and anyone trying to explain it's unrealistic and de-founding should be the goal was shut down as police supported. Where did it get the protesters? No where. So good luck with your fight. You will also get nowhere.

theluckyone ,

Says you. You're also inflating my example and simplifying it, making a strawman out of it. I say differently, and so do all those folk downvoting you.

I'm done with this discourse. You're determined to stick to your position in the mud, and not worth the effort. Good luck with that.

ExLisper ,

Sure, "when proven wrong, scream strawman!". During this entire discourse you didn't come up with a single argument to support your position and now you complain that I'm not changing my mind. Mind boggling.

theluckyone ,

Blah blah blah.

ExLisper ,

Another great point.

Candelestine ,

Don't underestimate the backlash. The big, mellower, center segment of the population that is generally more chill isn't in favor of fascist idiots.

Just, do what you can to help maintain motivation in the face of the fascist fear-train. Fear is their #1 tool, it's the emotion that underpins their whole worldview. Control is simply a response to that fear. Without that underlying current of fear, though, how do they get people to grant them control?

grue ,

Don’t underestimate the backlash.

Don't overestimate it, either. Only about 1/3 of Germans were NAZIs even at the height of its popularity, but that didn't stop Hitler from being a dictator.

Resistance takes work, not just hope that reasonable people will somehow prevail just because they're the majority.

puchaczyk ,

There is also a lot of people who are clueless or don't care about the world around them or even treat their ignorance as a sort of virtue. 1/3 of Germans being Nazis don't make the other 2/3 the resistance.

archonet ,

Remember, the second amendment is for everybody, not just MAGA chuds. :)

MillerLife777 ,

You are 100% right, just hope nobody views you as the fascist or the 2nd might be used against you.

blackn1ght ,

TIL the second amendment applies to everyone in the world.

archonet , (edited )

I don't think I said everybody in the world, but that's okay, I forgive your stupidity

I guess if you're in one of the countries that banned guns for civilians you could write the fascists a strongly worded letter. I'm sure that will help.

but I was moreso referring to the state of things in the US where the left is seemingly paralyzed between "we have to get rid of all the guns! think of the children! won't somebody think of the children!" and "fascists are taking over, what the fuck do we do!?"

blackn1ght ,

You said everybody without a context of a country, which implies everyone around the world, not everyone in the USA. It's okay though, I'll forgive your stupidity in forgetting there's people outside the US.

Fortunately for me I am from one of those countries. It's not like they've got guns either. Even if we did, what would people do? Start randomly shooting at people who we think are fascists?

archonet , (edited )

If you look really hard and read carefully, you'll see I also said "the second amendment", which is popularly known worldwide as part of, specifically, the United States Constitution. If you squint, you can also see I mentioned "MAGA chuds" -- I don't think Donald Trump is running a presidential campaign outside of the US. Thereby indicating I was, in fact, specifically talking about everybody in the US, at least if you have two brain cells to rub together. It's okay, I won't hold it against you if you don't.

It's not like they've got guns either.

yes I'm sure the fascists will abide by the legal system they're... simultaneously working to dismantle or otherwise work around in order to destroy democracy. Yes. Definitely.

Even if we did, what would people do? Start randomly shooting at people who we think are fascists?

all that is needed for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing.

LarmyOfLone ,

Much of it is a function of late stage capitalism and climate change. We know we can't change so we know we are doomed. The moral contract of society is completely broken.

My plan is to build a boat that is powered by solar panels. Generate enough electricity to move around the world and have power for making water, heat, cooking, air condition, my PC battle station, some greenhouse areas. Be able to build, maintain and repair everything myself and have enough spares to last until EOL. Just exit society, become an island and watch the nukes go off from the ocean. Welcome to !collapse

Probably humanity will muddle through somehow and after much genocide we'll learn.

Kbin_space_program , (edited )

Not just late stage capitalism(which is really just a return to oligarchies)

You want to know how this is all being pushed: look into the "International Democrat Union"

It's led by the christian-fascist and former Canadian prime Minister Stephen Harper. He's giving them the aid and policy directives they're using to trick people into voting for them.

It's why Pierre Polievre, current leader of the federal opposition in Canada, wants to talk about anything other than India's assault on Canadian sovereignty. Because Modi, him and Harper are really tightly knit.

LarmyOfLone ,

Thanks! I'm more concerned about the social democratic "leftists" though, ever since the "third way" it seems they have been completely captured all around the globe. Functionally this created the fertile ground for the fascism we see today. I'm not well educated how this ideological change is distributed, I can only infer it / speculate from the effects.

Kbin_space_program ,

Nah, Harper and his Reform party spend two decades worming their way into Canadian politics by at first showing their hand in the late 1980s and early 1990s, then learning to hide it and play it slowly. Any time any of their cult played their hand in the 2000s it was always an "outburst" or "temporary error in judgement".

They then conned the existing sane conservative party into "merging" with their their smaller party, and through cheating the internal politics of the combined party and pandering to the GOP, got the funds to crush the sane conservatives at the federal level.

It has nothing to do with social programs. Has everything to do with a decades long plan to push politics rightward into accepting extremism.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

Indian here. You are incorrect.

The only reason why Trudeau avoids talking about the whole BJP stint is because Khalistanis (domestic terrorists for India) are a vote bank for him and liberals. NRIs are fucking slimy people that love to shit on India on the internet as it suits them. It is not always about rooting for India pessimistically when shitting on BJP government, sometimes it is also a self-hate for nationality, and a way to "purify" or "baptise" oneself for the white capitalist countries.

Kbin_space_program ,

Not Trudeau, hes rightly bringing up India attacking Canada. Poilievre, the leader of the official opposition, is the one trying to bury it.

Also its very well documented that Modi takes advice from Harper, and Poilievre being a former member of Harper's cabinet, absolutely worships the ground the robot-man walks on.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

I did not see Trudeau hyping it up much either. He spoke, then the whole thing went under the rug. Trudeau gets plenty votes from Khalistanis.

And let's not act like Canada would be very happy if India started "freely" sheltering Canada's domestic terrorists.

Grant_M ,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

Modi proved that HE is a terrorist by contracting a murder of a Canadian on Canadian soil.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,

Canada also likewise proved it is a terrorist nation by providing refuge to India's domestic terrorists. Modi orchestrated a genocide of Muslims in 2002, so we know what these religious terrorists are, but Canada did something entirely different. We know USA, UK and Canada provide refuge to Khalistanis. India should also start providing refuge to some indigenous people of Canada and help them fight against terrorist Canadian establishment to get back their native land.

Grant_M ,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

Wrong.

Grant_M ,
@Grant_M@lemmy.ca avatar

100%

psycho_driver ,

That is a cool idea. Be sure to video document it so we have a real found footage horror film if things don't work out.

LarmyOfLone ,

I have prepared the sacrifices to Nyctelios so I should be good

CableMonster ,

Oh look another "GOP are fascists" post! I get that you guys dont like those guys, but your group is more fascistic than there group.

lobut ,

How so?

Szymon ,

They totally feel it to be true, and they've been told their feelings are more valuable and true than actual facts.

Sandman89 ,

crickets

CableMonster ,

For starters everything that happened with COVID.

lobut ,

I mean, you may have a point but you're being vague either intentionally or not I'm not sure.

Do you mean: vaccine mandates? mask mandates?

What exactly was fascistic about COVID?

CableMonster ,

I am referring to all the things that did that forced people to go along or be punish by the government or private government funded institutions.

lobut ,

There were no mask mandates federally I don't think. Most of those were instituted state-wide?

Vaccine mandates date back to 1800s in the US. However, I'm once again I'm left to my imagination.

I think I'd need some examples? Also, are those things fascist? Or are they government policies you disagree with?

CableMonster ,

The vaccine mandate that the president instituted using OSHA, would be the biggest thing of all, but the supreme court shot that down. Or that people couldnt work in most states due to the virus. That was done on the state level with guidance from the federal level, but was probably one of the most damaging things to happen in the country with no actual benefit. They took away all kinds of rights, and many times they well knew it was unconstitutional.

lobut , (edited )

Hang on, so the president instituted a vaccine mandate but the supreme court shot it down. How's that fascist? I did mention that vaccine mandates aren't actually new.

If things are done at the state level isn't that dependent upon the state? How's that a blue thing? Were only blue states affected? Would you mind linking to any articles about this?

I mean I think removing Roe V Wade was far more damaging than any of that stuff. I thought seizing the supreme court was messed up.

CableMonster ,

He knew it wasnt legal but did it anyways. Forcing people to get a shot with no rational reason is forcing them to live how they do not want to. Lockdowns were not exclusively a blue thing, but were overwhelmingly done more in blue areas. Roe V Wade is the exact opposite of fascism because it decentralized power.

How do you believe the right is being more fascistic?

ReCursing ,
@ReCursing@kbin.social avatar

Yeah trump and his cult are actually fascists. Don't know about the rest of the party but trump is, and so are several other major right-wing figures who are gaining too much ground worldwide. Look up Mussolini. Also learn the definition of fascism (it's not just authoritarianism you don't like)

CableMonster ,

Fascism is more than just a right wing ideology. I am not a fan of Trump and his group, but the left wing side is the real fascistic danger, they just like to project.

ReCursing ,
@ReCursing@kbin.social avatar

You're right, fascism is more than just a right wing ideology. But it IS a right wing ideology, the left literally cannot be fascists. They can be fucking awful (and indeed are) but they are still better than the ACTUAL fascists that trump and his cult are

CableMonster ,

Then what would you call it when the left wing does the same thing?

ReCursing ,
@ReCursing@kbin.social avatar

Not fascism, but fascism requires the corporation stance that is symptomatic of the right

CableMonster ,

So then we are just arguing about the right word to use? So without using the F word, from my life, the left is the one that wants to take away my freedoms much more than the right side does. They are the one that will be the actual cause of the domestic strife when it probably will occure.

ReCursing ,
@ReCursing@kbin.social avatar

the left is the one that wants to take away my freedoms much more than the right side does.

I'm guessing you're a white cis het male with some savings, then

CableMonster ,

Im guessing youre not and want to play the victim card. Please very specifically tell me what happens to a black vs white 18 year old that makes their success different.

ReCursing ,
@ReCursing@kbin.social avatar

The white person started with a hell of a lot less institutional and social crap in their way to success. If you want to know more please look up the definition of the word "privilege", and check yours while you're at it.

Oh, and I'm not looking to play any sort of victim card, I just hate fascists

CableMonster ,

Like I said, please be very specific on how a 18 year old black person would have a harder time than an 18 year old white person. I can give you some direct example of how they could have it easier, I need you to give specific examples.

ReCursing ,
@ReCursing@kbin.social avatar

The short answer is systemic racism. The long answer you're gonna have to look up on your own, but that should give you a good starting point. I'm not being paid to teach you and I don't care enough about you to do so for free.

Of course you actually know exactly what I'm talking about already and are actually just cat fishing, aren't you? Having looked at your profile, you're not actually very good at trolling are you?

CableMonster ,

I hear about systemic racism, but I never see what you are actually referring to, that is why I am asking for very direct example. If you cant give me a direct example that is fine, but since I can give you example of how it benefits them, then I dont know what you are talking about.

ReCursing ,
@ReCursing@kbin.social avatar

Have you looked? No? Didn't think so. I should not have to do this for you. Wait, I don't need to do this for you. Do a couple of basic searches and get back to me. Or better yet don't get back to me, just learn

CableMonster ,

The ones I have heard that you guys reference are a survey where they turned in resumes with black sounding names vs white sounding names, and then just quoting crime statistics. I have noticed how you are unable to give me an answer...

VampyreOfNazareth ,

"a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed"

STATE CONTROL

ReCursing ,
@ReCursing@kbin.social avatar

Well done, you have defined autocratic authoritarianism. Now define fascism. hint: it goes much further than that and is very definitely economically right wing and socially regressive

VampyreOfNazareth ,

That's from a dictionary mr clever.

psycho_driver ,

2024 is just 2020 part 5.

Sorse ,
@Sorse@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

2024 is just 2020 4

psycho_driver ,

Ahh the old inclusive vs. exclusive numbering.

2020 would be 2020 part 1,
2021 part 2,
2022 part 3,
2023 part 4,
and finally 2024 part 5.

grue ,

"Twenty-twenty-four is just twenty-twenty four."

psycho_driver ,

Touche

Titou ,

history is repeating itself

FlashMobOfOne ,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

There's nothing you can do, at least outside of your local community. It's still possible to be a decent human being and help people with your own two hands.

At this point the only thing that would have stopped this would have been Joe Biden radically shifting to the left and laser-focusing on lifting the poor and middle class, to the extent that their new quality of life would make it unthinkable to vote Trump.

Instead, the opposite is true. Biden's spent the bulk of his time making arms deals and funding other countries' wars, and homelessness jumped 12% in 2023. Hell, in a year half of the US will have literally criminalized abortion in all cases, because Idaho got away with it already.

Fascism isn't some looming specter. It's here.

Random_German_Name ,

I am trying to transform my community into a stronghold of democracy, that is ready to defend itself. Works relatively fine so far.

griD ,

Germany

Hey, at least we are fighting them this time! But sure, if system-wide changes are not coming, more people will fall into the hands of the fascists.

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