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Windows 11 Start menu ads are now rolling out to everyone

Microsoft is starting to enable ads inside the Start menu on Windows 11 for all users. After testing these briefly with Windows Insiders earlier this month, Microsoft has started to distribute update KB5036980 to Windows 11 users this week, which includes “recommendations” for apps from the Microsoft Store in the Start menu.

Luckily you can disable these ads, or “recommendations” as Microsoft calls them. If you’ve installed the latest KB5036980 update then head into Settings > Personalization > Start and turn off the toggle for “Show recommendations for tips, app promotions, and more.” While KB5036980 is optional right now, Microsoft will push this to all Windows 11 machines in the coming weeks.

Microsoft’s move to enable ads in the Windows 11 Start menu follows similar promotional spots in the Windows 10 lock screen and Start menu. Microsoft also started testing ads inside the File Explorer of Windows 11 last year before disabling the experiment and saying the test was “not intended to be published externally.” Hopefully that experiment remains very much an experiment.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

How did the default attitude toward the user get so hostile? The amount of toggles you need to set just to have a smooth experience with minimal tracking is insane. The people in here defending it by the fact it can be disabled are missing the point: we shouldn't have to deal with it in the first place.

aniki ,

You shouldn't. I haven't. Microsoft is a plague and a choice.

grue ,

You're not wrong, but there's a larger issue here: the fact that there's an alternative does not make what Microsoft is doing okay. This shit ought to be prohibited by consumer protection law.

krimson ,
@krimson@feddit.nl avatar

Yeah it’s not just Microsoft. Fucking ads in my doorbell app, Google TV, etc.

Putting ads in a product you paid for should be illegal.

qjkxbmwvz ,

I hate it as much as the next guy, but I certainly don't see why it should be illegal (and disclaimer --- Debian on all my personal machines, macOS for work).

Should it be illegal for books to have a list of similar material from the author/publisher? Should food staples not be able to list recipes on the back?

I completely agree that pulling the rug out from under the customer should be illegal (i.e., effectively changing the terms of service for an already-purchased product), but having a shitty product shouldn't be illegal IMHO.

LucidNightmare ,

It really goes like this:

I buy product. Product has no ads, and works really well.

After updates, my device starts showing ads and works worse than it had before.

I bought the device. It is my device. I should be able to do what I want with my device, that I spent my money on, the way I like it. If that means I don't want your shitty ads, then I should be able to avoid or opt out of those by default.

From your thought:

You buy cookbook. Cookbook has what you need already, which is why you purchased it.

The one you purchased it from comes and "updates" your book by scribbling in ads for it's other recipe books, and they did it really sloppily to boot.

Now, when you are looking for a specific recipe that you knew was in the book before, instead it is an ad for their other recipe book in place of where the recipe you were looking for was.

Sure, you can still find your recipe somewhere in the book, but as you flip through the books pages you see more and more and more ads for their other recipe books, and oh, now they are also showing you ads from some of their sponsors.

You paid for the book. It is rightfully yours to do with it as you please.

The recipe book company already got your money, yet they are insistent you buy more from them, and have even gone as far as defacing your book.

You should be upset.

qjkxbmwvz ,

Yeah I think we're in violent agreement to an extent --- as I said in my last graf, if it's effectively changing the user agreement, absolutely not ok. But if it's a shitty product to begin with, then I'm just not going to buy it in the first place.

So yeah, Windows doing shitty things for users who have already paid for the product is definitely not cool. But for all users going forward to have a shitty experience? That's... shitty, yeah, but I personally don't think it should be illegal?

tabular , (edited )
@tabular@lemmy.world avatar

Hardcopy images in a book are a bit different from the typical proprietary software doing who knows what on your personal computer. Not saying ads should be illegal but I would argue for software freedom where you can remove ads from any software running on your computer - like you can rip pages out of any of your books.

qjkxbmwvz ,

Yeah, I guess it's a matter of what the analogy is to "page." I would say my computer is the book, and the pages are the software. If some developer wants to make a piece of shit ad ridden software, well, great --- but I won't install it :)

Stovetop ,

TBH I am fully expecting a world where, in the next 10-15 years, some company will make a car that plays unskippable audio ads every X number of miles/km which can be disabled for $9.99/month.

Your company can't afford the ad-free version of Zoom, so this meeting is sponsored by Papa Johns®. Try the new Cheesy Papadia virtual background.

Before you can place this emergency call, here's a word from our sponsors at Nord VPN.

BestBouclettes ,

The choice is hard to make when Microsoft's garbage has been shoved down your throat for decades, it's the default pretty much everywhere and the only viable alternative, for 99% of the population, is Apple.

Governments have been way too lenient and passive towards Microsoft for far too long

stinerman ,
@stinerman@midwest.social avatar

the only viable alternative, for 99% of the population, is Apple

This is largely because Windows and MacOS come preinstalled and that's how the vast majority of people interact with operating systems. If you had to choose your OS, I'm sure there'd be more choice in the market. Not necessarily Linux, but just more choice in general.

BestBouclettes ,

That's pretty much my point, 99% of computers sold are sold with Windows on it and the leftover percent is 99% Apple and maybe 1% Linux.
And that's mostly because no one did anything when Microsoft licensed their crap to big OEM.

If any given computer sold was Linux (or any other free OS to be fair) by default and Windows as a paid option, it would change the market massively I believe. It would take time obviously but I'm convinced it would work in the long run.

tabular ,
@tabular@lemmy.world avatar

You don't choose your childhood education. Microsoft and Apple offer schools deals to create adults dependent on it - after all they'll be using it in work too.

aniki ,

so?

tabular ,
@tabular@lemmy.world avatar

This greatly affects the likelyhood of people choosing a particular OS later in life.

sudo42 ,

This is a direct result of our Wall Street economy. Wall Street demands that each corporation's stock price shall increase every quarter. No matter what. If that means the customer is unhappy or that a corporation must consume itself from within. Doesn't matter.

kevincox ,
@kevincox@lemmy.ml avatar

Pretty simple. Stock go brrrr.

chiliedogg ,

Fewer people are buying PCs now that Smartphones have replaced the need to have one for most uses, but Microsoft still has to make more money every quarter than the quarter before because the stock market doesn't value stable profits.

gravitas_deficiency ,

It got here because it’s super profitable, and that’s all the C-suite cares about, and they’re the ones calling the shots at the end of the day.

I also think that engineering ethics has, in general, been strongly de-emphasized, and true holistic ownership of technical products is now usually held by business and finance types instead of engineers, with all the negative consequences that that entails.

Edit: also, don’t forget the Peter principle

tabular , (edited )
@tabular@lemmy.world avatar

Having control over other people's computing gives you power over them: you can gain from their detriment. It's not like everyone is uncaring or greedy but even people with good intentions do not have infinite willpower to resist temptation. When the user doesn't like a change from an update their choice is usually to put up with it. Defending ads in a menu or opt-outs that should be opt-ins in hidden menus is less mental work than learning what an operating system is and that you can use a different one.

By sharing the source code instead you give up that power - if you fail to be good to the users then other devs can work on it without you.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

You don't give up anything by sharing source code. If anything, you share your power with the world. All other perceived outcomes are attributes of capitalism baked into your thought pattern.

kalpol ,

MS doesn't care about the desktop operating system except how can they control it like Apple and iphones. All the money is in O365 and Azure these days.

morriscox ,

We need to hunt down whoever these ads are working on.

Sabin10 ,

I'm still ok with windows 10 and by the time it's no longer supported, proton should be mature enough for me to make the jump with no regrets.

ililiililiililiilili ,

Do Win 10 LTSC users still get shoveled this shit? I'm asking for a friend.

daltotron ,

I haven't gotten shoveled this shit for the entire course of my install, which has been since win 10 came out

malloc ,

I am just waiting for a malware developer or state actor to use this as a way to infect computers with 0-days.

This is a disaster. Why anybody would decide to use Windows for any serious workloads is unfathomable to me.

Office products are mostly cross-platform (outlook, word, excel).

HootinNHollerin ,

The spice shit must flow

TimeSquirrel ,
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

I'm just here waiting for my wife to finally snap and ask about getting Linux on her gaming PC. I've been using it for 20 years now. The complaints are becoming more and more numerous these days, it's only a matter of time.

wizardbeard ,
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

You could also disable all this shit pretty easily too, for about the same amount of effort as getting someone acclimated to a new OS.

Every single bullshit thing these articles bring up, there's simple controls built into Windows to handle. Most easily through Group Policy with a Pro license, easily bought from an OEM license seller for $20 or just spoofed.

For this bullshit in particular:
Settings > Personalization > Start and turn off the toggle for “Show recommendations for tips, app promotions, and more.”

TimeSquirrel ,
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

That's the thing, she's getting tired of having to do all that bullshit and then getting a lot of it reverted during an update. The annoyances are starting to outweigh the convenience. She's not dumb, she knows her way around computers and is well aware of methods to disable this crap.

ares35 ,
@ares35@kbin.social avatar

for every person that figures out how to disable this stuff, there are many thousands of others who don't, don't bother, or don't even know it might be possible to... which is why they pull this shit in the first place--and (usually) get away with it.

Nanno ,

The direction Windows 11 is taking is terrible but i've tried on multiple occasions (even this morning!) to game and consume my content on Ubuntu or Fedora and i run into so much trouble, that ill have to stick with Windows 11. I have been using Ubuntu at work for the last 10 years though as web development is great on it.

Issues i have:

  • Lutris not finding GoG games
  • Heroic working, but not being able to sync savegames for GoG
  • Having installed GoG with Bottles and then the game itself works, but my framerate wasn't that great
  • Nvidia driver getting borked after kernel update, need to switch to old kernel, uninstall, switch to new kernel, reinstall
  • Mangohud flatpak not working together with Goverlay repo version
  • Need alternative for Synology cloud sync. Maybe Syncthing or rsync with SMB
  • And i need alternatives for fps limiting, undervolting and cpu undervolting. Haven't put enough time into it yet though
  • I like the mouse acceleration on Windows and in KDE both flat and adaptive feel pretty flat. Probably can be tweaked with xinput or something, but you can't configure the acceleration amount by default

Maybe one day, but for now Windows is probably just the better choice for me and gaming (on a laptop). At least in Windows 11 they now allow you to not group the taskbar by default..

wizardbeard ,
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

If you're not ready to switch, most of the issues and anti consumer shit with Windows can be managed through a combination of Group Policy, Registry, various settings and configurations menus, and a wee bit of PowerShell.

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

I used to post comments like this on Reddit. I’m an expert in PowerShell, group policy, and Windows enterprise management in general. Point being I know how to do all that stuff. Over 99% of Windows users do not. But I completely decrapified my Win10 install and was mostly happy with it.

When it was time to go to Win11 I realized all this effort is just Stockholm Syndrome. I shouldn’t have to protect myself from the maker of my OS. And it’s clearly getting worse so why put in the continual effort?

Moved to Tumbleweed a month ago on my main home PC. Microsoft is just my day job again, and I feel so much relief not having to be on guard for whatever shady shit they pull next.

Edit: to be clear I’m not critical of your post. It’s nice to educate those that want to protect themselves. I’ve just come to realize there’s a better way for me.

Sabata11792 ,

How long until Mom gets malware from them?

GreenEngineering3475 , (edited )

This is what i fear. How much curation and monitoring will be done on the ads, or this will be another vector for malicious application

ChaoticEntropy ,
@ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

How long until we get to the default "I don't get paid to ask questions" mentality of ad services.

LifeInMultipleChoice ,

I assumed it was "just" for apps in the Microsoft store. So they shouldn't get viruses, but that doesn't mean they aren't getting software that is garbage.

MonkderDritte ,

Note:

  • disable ads on moms notebook
themeatbridge ,

And the wind screams Linux

elleybirdy ,
@elleybirdy@mstdn.social avatar

If only Linux wasn't so frustrating to use for the average enduser. I'd never recommend it as a daily driver for 95% of people.

Evkob ,
@Evkob@lemmy.ca avatar

That's a fair criticism, but I wouldn't recommend Windows as a daily driver to 95% of people either. If you like/care/know about computers, use Linux, otherwise I'd recommend MacOS over Windows (unless said person uses their computer for gaming, in which case Windows'll give you the least hassle)

cujo ,
@cujo@sh.itjust.works avatar

Really? MacOS? Why's that? I've never had the pleasure of working with a Mac, but I'd be open to trying it.

Actually, I'm thinking about picking a previous gen MacBook for my wife, I just need some confirmation on how it handles The Sims and Minecraft... 😂

rebelsimile ,

I am honestly guessing but as long there’s mac compatibility on those (older) games I’d expect them to run just fine. MacOS is probably my favorite OS from an overall coherency standpoint, power with the command line, aesthetics and usability. You’re just not going to find a lot of overlap between people who use linux and the traditional mac crowd (except when it comes to software development weirdly, which is where I sit), but it is criminally underdiscussed around here every time Windows enshittifies. (BTW, not a fanboy, running multiple Windows, Linux and MacOS systems at home)

calzone_gigante ,

Windows is frustrating for average people, the thing is that they get used to ms bullshit because they think there are no other way.

cujo ,
@cujo@sh.itjust.works avatar

I'd argue that for the vast majority of users, a stable, modern Linux distro will meet their needs perfectly. Web browsing, watching YouTube, checking e-mail, looking at pictures of cats on the internet...

It's special/professional use-cases that are still lackluster. Try doing professional level photo editing on Linux... It's a nightmare. Integrating with corporate cloud solutions? Nah. Are these things doable? Absolutely. By the majority of users in that specific use-case? No.

But day-to-day, general use PC stuff? Yeah, absolutely. Even gaming is more accessible than ever. There's exactly one game in my Steam library that doesn't just work... To be clear, it doesn't work at all, but that's just because of my hardware setup. (Halo Infinite + Intel ARC + Linux = Game can't even launch. Worked fine with an AMD card, but when I upgraded late last year it borked. Known problem with Vulkan, DX12, and ARC)

Reptorian ,

Try doing professional level photo editing on Linux

I can be on a tirade about this. If only Krita decided to expand their focus instead of being conservative about their goals, or if GIMP actually had competent people years ago. But, now I'm at a point where I just don't give a damn about FOSS editing, and fine with let it all burn.

cujo ,
@cujo@sh.itjust.works avatar

Lol! I'm fine with GIMP, actually. As a matter of fact, I prefer it to Photoshop. That's likely due to GIMP being my first introduction to photo manipulation though, and so I'm used to its paradigm.

Photo EDITING, though? There's no competition on Linux for the likes of Lightroom or Capture One Pro (my preferred RAW editing software). I gave up photography for a while because I hated editing my photos on Linux so much. I tried EVERY alternative Linux had to offer, and they all suck. Eventually, I started carrying around a USB-C SD card reader and just transferring photos of my camera to my phone to edit them in Snapseed of all things, I hated editing on Linux so much.

Reptorian ,

My try with GIMP is that I find that the interface is clunky, and the absence of non-destructive editing, and it's nowhere near the level of Krita/PS at a mechanical level. I tried the version with NDE in GIMP, but I just hate the flow and I find the absence of ease of access to filter as well as lack of inherent mask a issue. So, I'll stick with Krita instead, and it works out for my needs, but I'm not fully satisfied unless I have better selection tools in there.

HidingCat ,

Yea, that was my take as well. Try RawTherapee, they said. Nope, inferior, there were some photos where I could spot them in full-screen view, not even at 100%.

cujo ,
@cujo@sh.itjust.works avatar

The one everyone always drones on and on about is Darktable... Don't get me wrong, it's a powerful piece of software. But... It's lackluster compared to the competition. I used it for a long time, figuring if I just made myself keep using it I'd get used to it... And then I actually stopped and thought about that sentence, lol. I shouldn't have to Stockholm's myself into liking a piece of software.

HidingCat ,

Oh yea, I tried that too, nope, just simply can't compare. That's why Adobe still gets my money as much as I don't want to give it to them. Luckily the Photography plan hasn't increased in price... yet.

cujo ,
@cujo@sh.itjust.works avatar

I got tired of the subscription while I was still Windows-bound, so I trialed CaptureOne Pro. It didn't even have a subscription plan at the time, and I loved it so much I bought a perpetual license. I love the software, it's my favorite photo editing software period. They do offer a subscription now, as well as perpetual licenses, but you can't even begin to get it running under Linux so... Major bummer.

MinFapper ,

It really doesn't. My girlfriend needed to enable the Japanese keyboard on Kubuntu. That required half an hour of searching documentation and forum posts about how to install/enable FCITX5, then another hour debugging to find out it doesn't work on apps installed via snap.

I still haven't been able to come up with a KDE based distro (because it's way more familiar to Windows users) that actually meets the needs of non technical users.

cujo ,
@cujo@sh.itjust.works avatar

This is, again, an atypical use-case. Despite that, it's not hard to find the answers. Googling for "Linux Japanese keyboard layout" comes up with an easy-to-follow guide in the first 5 search results, literally on the Ubuntu forums. Understand I'm not saying the use case is particularly RARE, but it's not the norm either. And honestly, Snap sucks anyway. 😂

It could certainly be better supported and better documented, but you're looking through the lens of your specific experience, not realizing your experience is not that of the every day, average PC user.

Put up a dart board of the most widely used KDE distributions and throw a dart. You've got a KDE distro that actually meets the needs of a non-technical user. Kubuntu, Linux Mint's KDE edition, Fedora, OpenSUSE, hell throw Manjaro with KDE on. The desktop environment has zero bearing on a distro's ability to act like a computer, it's only the paint on the walls. If a distro "fits the needs of a non-technical user" by your definition with, say, GNOME or Cinnamon or XFCE or Budgie or whatever else, it'll do it with KDE too. Desktop environment != distribution.

MigratingtoLemmy ,

Don't use snaps.

People shouldn't be using Ubuntu either but I suppose that's not going to happen. Just use a derivative like Linux Mint

___ ,

Straight Debian with Cinnamon.

3laws ,

Understanding Linux kernel is medium hard, but not frustrating. Using a DE is NOT frustrating if you understand what's up with their core ideals. D-Bus, HOOKS, env variables... meh I can give you that. But 95% of users live in the web and/or office apps. And for that literally any flavor of Linux will do. My in laws would never in their lifetimes be able to distinguish Arch + KDE + SDDM + themes from Windows. I can bet my right testicle.

aniki ,

Linux isn't frustrating at all. Not sure what you're on about.

elleybirdy ,
@elleybirdy@mstdn.social avatar

@aniki k

ArbitraryValue ,

Note that you can turn the ads off quickly and easily. I agree that there's someone off-putting about an operating system with built-in ads, but a tech-savvy person will see them once and then never again. (A person who isn't tech-savvy probably won't care.)

Fetus ,

My money is on them being re-enabled after every update.

herrcaptain ,

Ah, the ol' "Please use Edge" update screen that pops up every few months.

wizardbeard ,
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

This setting exists on 10 and I've never had it re-enable itself.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

Initially Windows 10 used to do this, but that was fixed a long ass time ago. Like before 11 existed a long ass time ago.

HidingCat ,

I'll still be using Windows (no time for Linux), but really, why does the user have to do this for a pleasant experience? MS shouldn't be hostile towards their users.

Rentlar ,

Microsoft only started testing these ads two weeks ago, so it’s surprising to see this “feature” progress from the Beta Channel to release in such a short period of time.

Is it surprising, though? When earning more money is involved?

Nougat ,

You know, I get if they want to do this to Home editions, but why in the world would they do this to all editions? At the very least, this should never apply to domain-joined computers.

Dagamant ,

Money

Nougat ,

Seems short sighted to annoy the people who pay you the most money already.

Dagamant ,

Profits now are all that matter. The future is a problem for after dividends and bonuses get paid out.

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

What are they going to switch to?

Most orgs will just put up with it because of inertia: existing software that has to work, employee's having to learn new skills, "sysadmins" who only know Microsoft, etc.

Nougat ,

... "sysadmins" who only know Microsoft, ...

HEY

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Nothing personal, lol, but I stand by my quotes.

I feel like sysadmins need to be comfortable in multiple environments. I also work with some really crappy ones who only know how to reboot a faulty system or crawl to Microsoft for support. No reviewing logs, no digging in at all, just "welp, a reboot didn't fix it. Gonna submit a support ticket and make no further effort".

Nougat ,

There's a lot to be said for a good generalist, but at some point, specialization takes you farther. I ended up with Windows server and Active Directory, as well as Exchange (lots of other stuff, too, but those are the main things). Apart from mass workstation management, or when a help desk person asks for a hand, I haven't dealt with non-servers in a loooong time.

No reviewing logs, no digging in at all, just "welp, a reboot didn't fix it. Gonna submit a support ticket and make no further effort".

My last few experiences with Microsoft support (spread over many years) have been "If I can't figure it out, Microsoft probably can't, either." For a smaller company, with a limited IT staff, having someone who is able to efficiently interface with vendor support without necessarily having all the answers themselves can be a useful thing. But I totally get what you're saying.

bigkahuna1986 ,

But they could be paying the most money even more.

tourist ,
@tourist@lemmy.world avatar

how soon do you think ms gets hit with a lawsuit because a malicious ad infected BlackRock or Deloitte or some shit

russjr08 ,
@russjr08@bitforged.space avatar

If there's anything that I've learned, it's that lawsuits are more often than not, just a joke to the large companies.

Hell it's often easier for them to just classify whatever fine they get slapped on the wrist with as a business expense, than to do the right thing, it seems.

snekerpimp ,

Let me see if I can use windows without opening the start menu now

new_guy ,

Since I've adopted PowerToys -> PowerToys Run and set a shortcut to open it with "Super (windows key) + Space" I don't know what a start menu is.

wizardbeard ,
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The instructions to disable this are right fucking there in the article, and the sections OP copied to the description here.

And for completeness:
Settings > Personalization > Start and turn off the toggle for “Show recommendations for tips, app promotions, and more.”

pixelmeow ,
@pixelmeow@lemmy.world avatar

Very helpful, thanks. Had the update this morning and there it was. It’s off now.

ReallyActuallyFrankenstein ,

They aren't even labeled as ads/paid promotion, so I wonder if this even got legal's input. Something the FTC probably might be interested in.

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