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indomara ,

No fucking thank you, I have long since completely neutered my pc's ability to update. I updated enough to install drivers and get it stable, and that's it. I don't trust windows.

Cethin ,

So much effort to just keep using the same shitty piece of software.

FonsNihilo ,

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    Cethin ,

    If it really was less effort to move to Linux, a majority of people would have already.

    Oh yeah, because the customer is always perfectly knowledgeable and rational. People absolutely never spend more money to get an inferior product.

    Have you tried Linux recently (or at all)? Most distros hold your hand. If anything, most of them hold your hand more than Windows. The installation is very easy, and it doesn't bug you with a Microsoft account, MS Office, or One Cloud. It's not trying to sell you a bunch of shit you don't need because it's not profiting off of you. You just select what drive you want to install it on (assuming you have an empty one) and let it do it's thing, and you're done.

    FonsNihilo ,

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    Cethin ,

    So if you don't have a clue, do you buy the expensive yet inferior product for ease of use, or spend hours learning stuff you don't want to, to get the free, and better product?

    If you are willing to learn how to hack Windows to work the way you want it to, the better solution is to switch to Linux. The person I replied to is knowledgeable enough to disable his computer's ability to update. They are not an average user. Any user who can manage what they did will have a trivial time switching to Linux.

    No, no Linux distro holds your hand like a OS that comes preinstalled on your PC.

    No shit. It holds your hand more than what this user did, and it holds your hand more than installing Windows, which you'll need to do for 11 to switch. It being pre-installed is exactly the same as someone installing it for their parents, or whatever you said in your other comment with a negative connotation.

    I don't know why people always need to boil things down to what the absolute dumbest least technical user who doesn't have help can do when they weren't what's being discussed. This was a user on Lemmy who has modified Windows to not update. They are spending more effort to stay on Windows than it'd take to switch to Linux, like I implied with my first comment.

    FonsNihilo ,

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    Cethin ,

    I feel like all of your arguments are just from your experience only.

    Personal experience and those that I've heard and seen, sure. As are all of our opinions. I saw the other day someone using Debian (I think, maybe it was another distro) while avoiding the terminal. You can't even do that with Windows.

    96% of people haven't, because they don't want to.

    That is not an accurate statement. The vast majority haven't even considered that there's another option, besides Mac maybe if they're aware of that. It's like saying 99% of people aren't billionaires because they don't want to be. They didn't make a choice.

    For your car analogy, I agree with it. It's pretty accurate. The issue is this person was doing fairly serious maintenance of his automatic car. He wasn't just driving it around because it's easier. They spent time gaining knowledge and experience because they're automatic was breaking down in a way the manual wouldn't have had issue with. They wouldn't have much trouble making the switch.

    FonsNihilo ,

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    Cethin ,

    All of that, just to have a Linux server that could natively handle the default windows file format.

    All of that has nothing to do with standard operation of Linux. I also switched from Windows, and I haven't reformatted two of my drives. They work perfectly fine. They are NTFS. I have used them on Ubuntu, Fedora, and now Garuda. I didn't have to install any other packages or anything for them to work. Debian probably just doesn't include it by default, but every distro I've tried does. Linux doesn't natively support many things, which is why distros include a lot.

    The average Windows user switching their computer will probably choose a desktop focused distro that will include this support by default. It won't be an issue, and if it is then it's only a time-sink, not difficulty, as you move files to storage temporarily while you reformat.

    I won't even start on all the small tedious things I have to on Linux VS doing the same thing on Windows. (I wish g hub was able to run on linux)

    Yeah, some things are annoying, but some things suck on Windows too. Have you ever edited your registries on Windows (I'm sure the answer is yes.) It's not a fun process, and you can fuck things up easily. There's no need to do things like that on Linux.

    As for G-Hub, yeah it sucks it doesn't work, but there's Solaar that does most of it, just in a harder to use package. That's a choice by Logitech to not support Linux though, not a difficulty intrinsic to Linux. They will support it if more people change over.

    FonsNihilo ,

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    Cethin ,

    Where did I say Linux doesn't have flaws. You're just here arguing that it can't be useful to a person who is already clearly technically savvy because you have some issue with it or something. You needed to come here and argue with me that it isn't perfect for literally every person because I brought it up as an alternative for someone who is clearly capable of learning it.

    Everything has flaws, and that's especially true for large projects, like Linux, Windows, or Mac. The difference is that with Linux you don't need to fight it with things like the OP had to do where they disabled updates, presumably through registry edits.

    Some people talk about people recommending Linux are loud (it's FOSS and we're on a FOSS platform, so it's appropriate), but the fact some people just have to come and say "it isn't perfect, so you can't recommend it" is insane.

    areyouevenreal , (edited )

    I am sorry but you aren't good at tech stuff if you are having these issues. It's common knowledge that macOS and Windows don't use the same file system, why would you assume Linux is any different? macOS meanwhile can't write to Windows partitions at all by default. Windows can't even read Linux ones. Linux is actually the good guy here, it can read and write to Windows partitions, and even read macOS ones I believe.

    Backing up all your stuff before formatting or reinstalling is common practice. You tried to get away from that by using multiple drives without actually thinking through the consequences.

    Also using Fat32 is a terrible idea. Use ExFAT, or better yet just use a real Linux file system and be done with it. Honestly you could have stuck with NTFS and it would work better than trying to use FAT32.

    This is like amateur hour for running servers.

    Up until this point your arguments sort of made sense. You do tend to run into more issues on Linux than Windows, primarily because of the lack of support from third parties but sometimes because of Linux distro shenanigans too, and the community is kind of toxic. But my god this last couple comments reframe it all. Your trying to do things beyond your understanding then blaming Linux when they go wrong. By the sounds of it you aren't even running RAID or have any kind of data integrity/bit rot protection.

    FonsNihilo ,

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    areyouevenreal ,

    Is anything I have said actually wrong? Do you actually have any idea what you are doing?

    areyouevenreal ,

    So why is it manual cars are disappearing if it is the better way to drive?
    Well a few reaons:
    While easy to drive, it is hard to learn, and there is alot to learn, don't ride the clutch, how to start moving on a hill, how to start smooth, you have to constantly be changing gears in traffic, more prone to bad shifts, the car requires more attention, ect, ect.

    Then why does most of the world use manuals? Automatics are mainly a thing in the land of bald eagles and school shootings. Across the rest of the world the manual is still more popular. The fact that so many people can only drive automatic tells me that maybe some of those people shouldn't be on the road, and that maybe Americans are too dumb to drive real cars.

    We live in a reality where Linux is more popular, just not on the desktop. Most smartphones run Linux, and do most smart appliances, servers, and embedded devices. So no Linux isn't harder to use, desktop distributions not run by giant corporations are harder to use for some ineffable reason. Really Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Debian and so on all need to take a page out of Linux Mint, Chrome OS, and so on and become more user friendly.

    indomara ,

    I am the user above, and the writing is on the wall - I am aware that I will need to switch to Linux when I can no longer make w10 work for me, or when it is no longer supported by the games and programs I use.

    The reasons why I don't switch now are more complicated. I use a Lenovo Legion Slim 5 as my daily driver, as I was in an accident and can no longer sit at my desk with the pc I built. This laptop is on a rolling desk over my bed.

    Anyway, while some Lenovo laptops support Linux, this one does not, and my reading tells me that I may have difficulty with certain things. I may have trouble with drivers for the graphics card, I may have trouble with adjusting the monitor brightness or the second monitor, I may have trouble with sound. or even the keyboard.

    There are github pages devoted to helping with utilities to fix many of these problems, but they definitely require troubleshooting, thinking, and planning.

    I have also had a friend who recently switched to Linux, who tried to stream a game for me. Before he switched his streams were flawless, this time we spent a while figuring out how to get his game audio, then the stream quality was abysmal, freezing, and in the wrong resolution, so he played while I googled solutions he could try on the fly.

    Streaming games through discord on Linux is apparently a whole thing. That more than anything keeps me on win10, because I cannot play most of the games I used to play, they require too much movement, so my husband or friends will stream for me.

    I am hoping things become easier as more users join Linux before me.

    This is all a long winded explanation that I am sure you didn't ask for, but I just wanted to let you know that sometimes even people with a somewhat good grasp of tech have reasons keeping them from switching.

    Cethin ,

    I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It sucks the some systems aren't supported. It's very rare, but I guess you may be in that small group. I'd bet some people could help you make it work, but it may require extra effort. The great thing about Linux is you can make almost anything work if you put in the effort, but if the tools aren't already made that'd mean doing it yourself, which probably isn't an option.

    I'm not trying to say Linux is right for you, but Windows does not care about you either. They are leaving everyone behind if they don't follow along. I wish you good luck and good health!

    indomara ,

    I know, just today on my lemmy home page was a w10 user who had their desktop background image changed and the stupid search bar added to their task bar again after an update. This is why I don't allow my machine to update. It's rediculous!

    Linux will be so much better, but it will require some effort and time, and probably some help. I will have to get there, and once I do I know it will be a relief to have an OS that only does what I tell it to!

    Thank you for the kind wishes stranger. I wish you health and happiness as well. I am sure you will see me again after I have made the leap, with some silly question or another. :)

    YurkshireLad ,

    Probably a sad attempt at adding “shiny” features to get people to upgrade to 11 once updates are no longer published for 10?

    “We’ll get people hooked on these shiny features, 90% of which are not interesting. Then we’ll pull the update rug from under them. And bingo, they’ll upgrade!!”

    GlitterNinja ,

    Probably more like, “we’ll make Windows 10 indistinguishable from Windows 11, at which point people will have no reason to stick with Windows 10” (unless their computers can’t update to Windows 11, like my laptop)

    Or maybe I’m just showing that I know nothing about how updates work and that I perhaps shouldn’t be commenting in a technology community…

    MrScottyTay ,

    Technically win 11 has the same main version number to win 10. They're essentially different UIs with extra features in 11. There's no technical reason why anything in 11 can't be backported to 10 unless it requires a TPM (maybe)

    stardustsystem ,
    @stardustsystem@lemmy.world avatar

    Even 11 doesn't require a TPM if you know what you're doing.

    thesporkeffect ,

    They're going to add things that make it worse and slower until you finally get fed up with it.

    YurkshireLad ,

    Your last paragraph probably applies to me too.

    Mertn33 ,

    It is malware, not software.

    Defaced ,

    I'll just jump ship completely and use my Linux install 100% of the time. If I need to use a more mainstream OS for some stupid reason I'll just use my Mac.

    EeeDawg101 ,
    @EeeDawg101@lemm.ee avatar

    Only reason I need Windows is for Flight Simulator. If it weren’t for that I’d be on Linux for sure.

    SupraMario ,

    Linux is still not there for gaming, that's what holds back most of the people who bitch about windows. People who just use windows to browse and do spreadsheets they don't care.

    JeffKerman1999 ,

    Yeah well, play the game that have requirements that you pc supports. It's always been like that.

    SupraMario ,

    Huh? I do play the games my PC supports, which is all of them, because I on windows still...

    discount_door_garlic ,

    I think PC gamers tend to overestimate their importance in OS distribution these days - gaming on Linux is just as passable these days as on Mac, and there's much more to PC use than only gaming for 90% of users.

    I feel that PC use is more complicated than gamers/productivity - but having switched over full time this year, Linux clearly has some work to do so the average user doesn't need to touch the terminal - but even compared to 10 years ago its infinitely more capable and user friendly.

    Customers of paid software need to start either voting with their feet meaningfully, or lobbying to get software support on Linux if they want it - complaining that titles aren't available for Linux and then continuing to suffer through windows instead of making that known to the devs is seen exactly the same way - a sale.

    I certainly miss some windows only software - but I'm not going to be held captive anymore for programmes I paid for, that refuse to consider my needs, when they are a part of my wider usage and expectations.

    SupraMario ,

    We don't, there are a ton of online games that will not work on linux. I don't know why this is hard to understand. I love linux, but I have my main rig for gaming running windows, because it's easier and games just work on it.

    Defaced ,

    Gaming is absolutely there, if you want to say something about anti cheat and whatnot that's fair, but my gamescope enabled, AMD fsr utilizing arch install is performance parity to Windows 10, if not more performant. I'm not giving up that performance gain for an insanely small handful of games. You do you I guess.

    Cethin ,

    Even for AC, most AC is supported. Battle Eye and Easy Anti-cheat both work fine (with the proton patches that should be automatically installed). Maybe there's some custom AC that doesn't work, but I haven't found it yet. I'd guess Riot's doesn't if you want to play Valorant or LoL and want to install their root kit. I've had issues with The Finals (who just took a long time to update EAC but works fine now) and Squad (which is using a depricated C function that isn't included in glibc anymore, but is included with the Flatpak version of Steam so it's still playable with that) but they're solvable. I believe that's all.

    lost_faith ,

    My VR library is only half on linux or less and 1 of my streaming QoL apps is not even in the list. After 4 days (non consecutive over a month or so), and several steam updates, I finally got room setup to run and installed a few VR games last weekend, now steam overlay would not load to start a game. I want to switch to linux fully, I have for 2 decades. It is getting there, but still many miles to go.

    whoisthedoktor ,

    You want "new features and more"?

    Linux.

    You're welcome.

    MeDuViNoX ,
    @MeDuViNoX@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I want old features and less. 😞

    (I'm still switching to Linux.)

    bitwaba ,

    Old features and less? No problem. Just don't install X, a window manager, or a desktop environment. It'll be just like the DOS days!

    Crozekiel ,

    I'm curious, could you skip a a DE and window manager and still run full screen graphical applications like games? Run it really like the DOS days when you just changed to the correct directory and ran the executable and then doom launches...?

    bitwaba ,

    Id imagine all games rely on at least the X server running to handle the display.

    I know back in the day you could do some cool stuff with framebuffer, but I don't know if you'd get 3d acceleration today even if you installed the drivers, because they probably need a bunch of libraries that are packaged as part of DEs/WMs

    If you just want the experience of launching graphical stuff from the CLI, that can be done. You'd still install all the packages for your chosen display server and WM/DE, then you can write a small bash script that launches a desktop session and starts your program, then closes the desktop session after you exit the program.

    Laser ,

    less comes with all distributions I know

    uriel238 ,
    @uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Can I opt out?

    supercriticalcheese ,

    it's Microsoft so probably not unless corporate account. You know the other solution.

    glitchdx ,

    Shit, I'd still be using xp if they let me.

    ripcord ,
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    Having used XP recently, I...would not.

    iturnedintoanewt ,
    @iturnedintoanewt@lemm.ee avatar

    Go 98!

    Crashumbc ,

    Everyone always forgets ME. :(

    coaxil ,

    As they should

    hagelslager ,

    For good reasons

    FrankFrankson ,

    What about BOB?

    Toes ,
    @Toes@ani.social avatar

    Windows 2000 was peak Windows.

    Plopp ,

    This is the correct answer. Win 2k Pro.

    Halcyon ,
    @Halcyon@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Still a fan of Win 7.

    Blackmist ,

    Backporting the ads?

    Delusional ,

    It's almost like they're trying to make people switch to Linux and kill PC gaming altogether. Luckily gaming on Linux has come pretty far.

    tron ,
    @tron@midwest.social avatar

    I was a late switcher as I had to wait for gaming support. Once I saw what the steam deck was doing and how amazing proton is, I pulled the trigger. It gets better all the time too, sounds like Nvidia users are finally gonna be getting proper Wayland in like less than a month too! It's been so smooth I was able to convince my wife to use it too. She LOVES Minecraft and after I showed her Prism Launcher she was sold.

    arefx ,

    I really wish the anticheat co.panies would get their stuff working on Linux. I know anticheats aren't 100% effective but they are necessary, if you think it's bad with them imagine without.

    piccolo ,

    Which anticheats aren't working in proton? Iirc the major ones work.

    HeyMrDeadMan ,

    https://areweanticheatyet.com/?search=&sortOrder=desc&sortBy=status

    At least 132 games that theoretically should work, but because of bad/broken implementation don't, and 28 games where the linux community has been told explicitly to f- off.

    piccolo ,

    That's just a list of games not worth playing /s

    errer ,

    How much you wanna bet Recall gets added to Win10 as well?

    JackFrostNCola ,

    No you shut your whore mouth.

    Some of us rely on windows only software and dont have the option to run linux or other OS's

    Ephera ,

    Oh man, I obviously don't want that, because there's gonna be companies and organizations and whatnot handling my data with a non-hardened Windows 10, but I'd still grab some popcorn and watch all the security and data protection people explode.

    Windows 10 as is, was already a massive shitshow. The German Federal Office for Information Security started a guide for hardening Win10 and they very deliberately chose a name that would abbreviate to SySiPHuS, because I imagine, they never expected to see the end of it.

    Now, that end would be in order, at the very least, because the worse Win11 should be taking over. And to then have Microsoft chip in a new massive security hole, making them update their guides and all the hardened systems once more, that certainly has some incendiary potential. 🙃

    blind3rdeye ,

    The "and more" is the worrying part. They're telling us that some of the things they are adding are not 'features'. So then what are they?

    Ads, probably. That's the trend these days. More and more ads, in everything, everywhere - just really probing the limits of tolerability.

    the_ocs ,

    And AI, screenshots

    n3m37h ,

    Co pilot? Please leave that garbage off my pc

    NutWrench ,
    @NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

    Is one of those "features" CoPilot? Because I did a search for it on my Windows 10 installation, and found several small bits of it, including a directory called "Microsoft CoPilot." It looks like a placeholder for a full installation, later on. I'm guessing Office 365 put it there.

    adam_y ,
    @adam_y@lemmy.world avatar

    My set up comfortably plays cyberpunk at dead fancy settings, but doesn't meet the system requirements for windows 11.

    Yeah, I'm going to rub out windows 10 as long as I can (although I dual boot Debian anyway).

    That's why it is stubbonky popular.

    chronicledmonocle ,

    rub out Windows 10

    Whatever is your kink, bro.

    adam_y ,
    @adam_y@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean, I did mean run but also, yes, windows 10 is hot AF.

    InternetUser2012 ,

    They're going to make it shit so you're forced to go to 11, or the much better alternative if it's an option for you.

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