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Pulptastic , (edited )

Stainless is not stain proof. Different grades of stainless have different levels of rust resistance depending mostly on chrome, nickel, molybdenum, and carbon levels, but even the most resistant grade will rust under some conditions. The primary method of rust protection, what makes stainless stainless, is a continuous layer of chrome oxide on the surface. The problem is that layer is weak to chlorides like salt or bleach so exposure to such can allow rust to begin. Adding more nickel, more chrome, and more moly can help but nothing is rust proof, even extreme marine grades like 317L can rust.

Edit: the cybertruck is made using their own "30X" grade. The most common is 304 or 18/8, which has around 18% chrome and 8% nickel. 302 has less, 309 has more. I would bet it is near 304 as that is the most common austenitic (nonmagnetic) stainless steel. This grade does not have the molybdenum added to "marine stainless" grades like 316 and 317. That molybdenum provides some resistance to chlorides which is why it is used in marine applications and commercial kitchens. It is also quite a bit more expensive.

nutsack ,

same as my underwear bitch what do you think about that

Copythis ,

I saw one in person 2 days ago. I took a picture, and none of my coworkers think it's a real picture (or that I took it).

It was surreal. I could see it coming from WAY down the road and I was thinking to myself "there is absolutely no way I am seeing a cybertruck right now"

I am dumbfounded they actually made them. I still can't believe what I saw the other day

redcalcium ,

Tesla is just recognizing that each cybertruck owner has different color preferences, so they deliver the cybertruck without any paint or coating so the owners can coat it themselves /s

qjkxbmwvz ,

It's relatively common for nice metal bikes to go the unfinished metal route...if they're made of titanium.

negativeyoda ,

Even so, my friend's ti bike has stains on it that he can't get out sort of polishing/ brushing it

w3dd1e ,

lol. Cybertrucks are looking like my sink.

They should invest heavily in Barkeepers Friend. Works pretty well on the sink.

Abnorc ,

Tesla has been pretty good at selling vehicles, even really expensive ones. This one has been kind of bizarre though. From the massive and strange body to the issues in production, I'm not sure if we'll start seeing these become more common on the road.

n3m37h ,

Real stainless steel does not rust. I brew beer and daily soak down my stainless steel sink/kettles daily. Even harsh chemicals (muritiac acid, chlorinated caustic soda) don't affect it.

jmfwnsfw ,

There are a lot of grades of stainless, but they all can rust. What you're doing with your kettles is unlikely to cause rust, because you are actively cleaning them daily. Letting a contaminant sit on them and periodically get wet without being cleaned our dried is a worst case scenario, and also what constantly happens to cars.

https://www.unifiedalloys.com/blog/stainless-grades-families

n3m37h ,

Yeah and Musk used the chinesium (capitalist) grade, cheapest possible garbage

jmfwnsfw ,

Probably

yojimbo ,

I am not an expert - just an avid knife freak - but in my experience "Stainless" means "Stain Less" not "Stain Resistent". Eg. s35vn is relatively high quality stainless knife steel - that does not mean it ain't gonna pickup stains - all mine did... I suspect one of the differences between my knifes / Elons Cybertruck vs. your cookware is that your cookware is mirror polished while my knives and the cybertruck are sporting "satin finish" which looks quite esthetically first 5 mnts - but is quite inpractical...

carzian ,

Theres no such thing as "real stainless". Stainless steel 304 is corrosion resistant, it's the cheapest and most common. 316 is better at corrosion resistance and is "marine grade" since it will hold up better to salt water. 316L is some of the best at resisting corrosion, it's more expensive than 304 and is used in lab and surgical equipment. There are a lot of other types, like 309 for higher heat applications, etc.

Cybertruck is probably made from 304.

Definately not supprised that cybertrucks are having this issue. Especially with road salt in the winter. I'm sure the engineers at Tesla saw this coming too.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

Not the cheapest, there's 17-4 and 18-8 before 304.

Siegfried ,

What makes stainless steel stainless is that it corrodes quickly, uniformly and forms a dense rich en Cr carbide coating (I dont know how it is called in english). This reduces the rate at which it corrodes enormously. This is the same on most "corrosion resistant" metals and alloys, like aluminium, titanium and zirconium.

There are multiple grades of SS, some of them are better at halting corrosion than others. And given the right environment (chemical + temperature) it will ultimately corrode.

Some geometrical obstacles* can produce other, more localized, types of corrosion... again, sorry, I dont know the technical words in english.

AnUnusualRelic ,
@AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world avatar

Isn't that the butler's job?

filister ,

Imagine spending 80K on a truck that starts rusting in days. Oh the poor Elon Musk's s***ers. It might be a really hard blow to feel that betrayed by their idol.

This cybertruck fiasco is getting more ridiculous by the day.

UnrepententProcrastinator ,

Cult of personality will make them accuse other actors for any of his failures.

TheFriar ,

What word is supposed to be censored there.

Patches ,

The Dark K***ht

TheFriar ,

Like, *** r***, though. What **** could that p******* *e?

BumbleBeeButt ,

But really who cares, we are not forced to buy these cheesy blobs of cheap grade stainless. Let the tech bros take one for the team.

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

The people who get in a crash with one probably care

carl_dungeon ,

What a pos. Links to pictures here- https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/cybertruck-spots-corrosion.12242/

OpenHammer6677 ,

Lmaooo

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/33f22f7b-458e-4c5a-8d4e-1595e920f500.jpeg

carl_dungeon , (edited )

Yeah it’s like “I actually like getting brutally raped at the dealership, excited to get my backside exploded!”

filister ,

Yes this forum sounds a lot like Elon's exclusive club, where you are not allowed to say anything critical of the godfather or his products.

FangedWyvern42 ,
@FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world avatar

Insane levels of copium.

holycrap ,

Holy shit that's not insignificant! Those things are going to be piles of rust in just a few years.

Insane

atmur ,

One of the replies in that thread:

I’m know I’m a weirdo but I actually kinda like the corrosion and hopefully the associated patina that will come with it.

Wow.

BabyVi ,

The cope is strong with that one.

EatMyPixelDust ,

I dunno, a patina can look quite good though, if you like that aesthetic.

NuXCOM_90Percent ,

Yeah. My understanding is that Deloreans were shockingly rust resistant but were also panels specifically so that they could be replaced.

I don't know metallurgy/material science well enough to know if cybertrucks actually used good quality stainless steel or cut corners. And I can easily see a world where people assume the dirt is rust because of paranoia or just looking for internet drama/clout.

But... Rust or no rust, those cars are pretty fucked. Because they don't even have a clearcoat. And considering we are in the season where roads are covered with salt and sand and cars are constantly bombarded with a highly abrasive slurry at speed, those panels are going to see a LOT of wear and damage.

Death_Equity ,

Tesla uses SS301 stainless. DeLorean used SS304.

301 is cheaper, less resistant to corrosion, can resist more force applied to it before failure, formes better in stamping, doesn't tolerate high-temperatures as well.

My guess is they used 301 due to cost and forming properties. Supposedly they use 301 on the Starships, so bulk pricing would help keep production costs low. Had they used 304 the raw material cost and cost of production at volume would be higher but they would be less likely to have these corrosion issues, assuming they aren't welding the panels.

Cqrd ,

Well, starships don't usually need to worry about rain storms

Zron ,

They do have a habit of blowing up tho.

Seems to be a theme with Elon’s contraptions.

Thorny_Insight ,

Name a rocket company that haven't had rockets blow up.

Some of the Falcon 9 stage one boosters have been re-used 16 times.

Zron ,

All I’m gonna say is that ULAs Vulcan flew for the first time last month, and performed perfectly.

Blue origin developed the engines for Vulcan, and they performed perfectly.

Starship has had 2 test flights that they’ve had to backtrack and spin as “successful” because they cleared the pad. This is supposed to be a human rated launch vehicle, and it took SpaceX a few minutes on the second launch to even notice that the fucking thing blew up on the edge of space.

I don’t really care how reliable the falcon is, when they haven’t seemed to apply a single thing they learned from it to Starship.

Starship is supposed to put the next humans on the moon. They got the contract because they quoted to NASA that they could do it cheaper than anybody else. They’ve now blown up 2 test vehicles, and failed to demonstrate a single example of any of the new technologies they need in order for the Starship lander to work.

Likely due to this, the next moon landing has been pushed back a year, and likely will keep slipping until NASA grows the balls to pull the contract from SpaceX and give it to a company with more realistic development strategies.

As much as I am annoyed by the time table slip, What I really, really don’t want to see is the first people to land on the moon in 50 years crashing and burning because of Elon’s cartoon rocket. Or getting trapped on the surface because the stupid fucking elevator gets jammed due to moon dust. Or getting all the way out to the moon, only to discover the dammed turbo pumped engines won’t spool up after sitting in space for a week. Or if the thing will be capable of getting to the moon, we’ve never transferred cryogenic fuels in space before, and it’s going to take over a dozen of these transfers to fuel the starship for the landing.

My point is that there’s 2 primary mantras when it comes to human space flight, and we’ve learned them through blood and sacrifice: Keep It Simple Stupid, and Failure is Not an Option. Starship, and SpaceX in general, fundamentally does not follow these. It’s already an over complicated and unproven design, and their whole design strategy is that blowing up is a success. That is unacceptable and contrary to developing a vehicle that is supposed to work 100% of the time while it’s 240,000 miles away. If you don’t design with those 2 goals in mind, you will get people killed, and we will have the very first bodies off of earth.

To end this, I want to talk about some of the procedures that Apollo had. If they were going to leave the moon, and the ascent engine wouldn’t light, they still had options. Option 1 was to exit the lander, and flip a switch that would release a blade to cut safety wires that prevent the engine from lighting accidentally. If that didn’t work, they had a literal pair of bolt cutters, and would go in and cut the safety wires and bolts by hand before coming in and opening the valves for the fuel, which would light itself. Ask yourself what those emergency procedures look like on starship. Ask yourself what the procedure is if those engines won’t light, or the elevator jams with people on the surface, or any of the other dozen things that can go wrong and kill you in space.

hemko ,

Tbf spacex has extremely good reliability with their falcons, and their spaceship tests are literally just that, see how it blows up to learn more.

There's better things to criticize the company, such as their "what do you mean I can't fuck my subordinates?" -CEO

Wogi ,

SS301 is a great material. It's workable, ductile, and still plenty hard. It's absolutely perfect for work holding in an industrial spot welding environment.

Why on earth they'd use that for body panels is fucking beyond me. Ok, it's bullet proof, kinda, which is cool I guess? I've never been shot at in a car, I don't know anyone who's ever been shot at in car.

I know lots of people with cars that they don't like to rust. Or scratch tho. Seems like the bigger problem in car design honestly

abhibeckert ,

SS301 is a great material

Totally agree. But is this an appropriate use for it? I regularly have to use sandpaper to remove surface rust from my SS301 knife. And I don't leave that out in the rain. It's just surface rust, doesn't damage anything, but it is rust and it's very ugly.

Thankfully with a knife, it takes two seconds to remove the rust. With an entire car? And body panels with areas that are hard to get to? Honestly if I was going to buy a cybertruck I would paint it.

If you want "real" stainless, you want 316, but it's not as strong and would require significant modifications - making it thicker/heavier/more expensive/worse battery range/etc.

Plopp ,

Maybe the cyber truck owners will convince themselves the rust is a beautiful patina (and your cat sucks because it doesn't have one!)

i_love_FFT ,
@i_love_FFT@lemmy.ml avatar

Instead of gold versions, rich people will get inconel-pannel cybertrucks!

Silentiea ,
@Silentiea@lemm.ee avatar

Don't you talk about my cat that way!

Thorny_Insight ,

I believe their intention was to make it more dent-proof which ended up making it bullet proof(ish) at the same. I think that's a good feature. Modern cars are made out of cardboard

Rubanski ,

That's by design. It's called crumple zone and it saves lives

Thorny_Insight ,

On cars yeah but I'm not sure if that's so much of a factor on "body on a frame" trucks because the frame does not crumble much. Cybertruck doesn't have such frame because it has an exoskeleton but if you were to make it out of thinner metal then you'd need to add the sub-frame anyway so the end result is still the same.

Also, Tesla has a pretty impressive track record on when it comes to IIHS and Euro NCAP crash tests so I'd be surprised if Cybertruck was an exception.

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

The Cybertruck is an exception tho. It was tested at ~50 km/h and hardly crumpled at all.

Thorny_Insight ,

Well unlike you I'm a total idiot when it comes to analyzing crash tests so I'll reserve my judgement untill I see some official test results and what experts have to say about them.

Fisch ,
@Fisch@lemmy.ml avatar

There's a video of the test I mentioned

Thorny_Insight ,

I know. Like I said; I don't have the expertise to make any conclusions from said video. I've seen plenty of videos like that and some of the vehicles get 3 stars and some get 5 but it all looks the same to me. I don't need to have an opinion on this. I'll wait for official test results instead and hear what the people who know what they're talking about have to say.

Wogi ,

So what you're saying is not only is it ugly, rust prone, and poorly designed, it's ALSO unsafe.

Thorny_Insight ,

I haven't said a single thing about rust, appereance or design.

gens ,

Paint, they always need paint. A lot of science went into that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_hgPinCZks

oatscoop ,
@oatscoop@midwest.social avatar

Even "good quality" stainless steel can easily rust, as anyone who's owned quality kitchen knives will tell you. Some stainless alloys are more resistant than others -- but exposed to the right conditions they all corrode.

Donjuanme ,

Can't wait to see what happens when one gets dinged by road gravel, it's going to be even uglier.

Oh and about that 5-6k coating that will prevent the rust? It'll just prevent you from seeing the rust, don't worry, the rust will get there, it always does, that's one of a dozen reasons why steel has been moved away from for decades.

abhibeckert ,

Done properly it should prevent rust. Especially on already rust-resistant metal. And you could use clear paint.

Peppycito ,
@Peppycito@sh.itjust.works avatar

They won't be applying the coating to the back side of the panels....

Donjuanme ,

I think it's shown to not be very rust resistant.

MrScottyTay ,

Didn't realise I had subscribed to a cars community

notfromhere ,

This community has a hard on for anything remotely related to Musk, so it’s no surprise when his daughters(?) crayon drawing truck gets a ton of attention.

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