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TheOriginalGregToo ,

It's so frustrating to see something like this and realize that an increasing number of people align their views with the anti-fascists, thinking they are the "good guys", without seeing the inherent hypocrisy of the beliefs they hold. On paper the anti-fascists portray themselves as accepting, but the reality is quite the opposite. Generally speaking they are authoritarian pricks who will label anyone who disagrees with them as racist or bigoted simply to undermine their point of view. No idea should be above criticism.

I think privileged white people are the largest problem in society these days. I think violence should only be used as a last resort to self defense. I prefer minorities because I find them to be hard working with strong family values. I think freedom of speech only works if it is universal (especially extending to those I disagree with). I'm not entirely sure what classifies as a "dissenter". I have tremendous respect and appreciation for Jewish culture and the way in which they build community. And yet I have been called a fascist/racist/bigot many times online because I respectfully find the actions and beliefs of ANTIFA abhorrent.

If you scream down viewpoints you don't like rather than seek to understand, if you use violence to intimidate, if you seek to wield power to destroy your political enemies, then YOU are the bad guys. ANTIFA does all of these things then hides behind the ruse of being "anti-fascists" because they are cowards and are no better than the fascists they claim to fight against.

octopus_ink ,

I feel like we're gonna need a lot of citations here.

fossilesque ,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

Ah yes, big Antifa.

TheOriginalGregToo ,

Meaning what exactly?

toaster , (edited )
@toaster@slrpnk.net avatar

Not OP, but you're saying they're authoritatian when it's patently a decentralized, anti-authoritarian and leaderless movement. This shows a fundamental lack of understanding about what anti-fascists are.

No offence, but it sounds like your views are largely shaped by more right-leaning media's depictions of antifa.

fossilesque ,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

You get me.

MindTraveller ,

Hey look it's a fascist.

j_overgrens ,

While I don't agree with the op, you're kind of proving their point...

fossilesque , (edited )
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

It's more like this:

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

  • MLK

https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html

I don't personally like to pretend to be civil with people who do not extend the same courtesy, even if they are ignorant of their own contradictions. Good friends tell people they are wrong when they need to be told.

octopus_ink ,

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4e0be779-81e3-42fb-9b50-4616a7a0671b.jpeg

TheOriginalGregToo ,

What specific thing did I say that makes me a fascist?

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

Assuming the most benign interpretation: sorry but you are confusing justified self-defense with what actual fascist do. I guess you are familiar with the paradox of tolerance, but I recommend you thinking about that one again in the context of Antifa.

octopus_ink , (edited )

I think privileged white people are the largest problem in society these days. I think violence should only be used as a last resort to self defense. I prefer minorities because I find them to be hard working with strong family values. I think freedom of speech only works if it is universal (especially extending to those I disagree with). I’m not entirely sure what classifies as a “dissenter”. I have tremendous respect and appreciation for Jewish culture and the way in which they build community. And yet I have been called a fascist/racist/bigot many times online because I respectfully find the actions and beliefs of ANTIFA abhorrent.

While I would never put words in Angela Davis' mouth, I think this more or less covers it. Please avoid the temptation to skip forward or you won't appreciate what she is bringing together to make her final point. It's not a very long video, only about 3 minutes.

https://youtu.be/2HnDONDvJVE

Also:

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/fdff85a3-47d2-412b-bd93-6c01e8e52041.jpeg

Redredme ,

Im just a tad disappointed that according to this graphic fascism (which isnt exactly the same as nazism but whatever) is strictly a white issue.

Which, if you look at the world, clearly isn't the case. Fascism is everywhere.

heavy , (edited )

Nobody is ever considering how the whites feel 😤

Uh oh, angry angry whites! Keep the Tiki torches at home depot, fellas.

Redredme ,

Sigh.

Nazism isn't the same as fascism. Nazism does care about your ethnicity. Fascism does not.

But whatever.

Sazruk ,

No need to sigh, your points are salient and valid

heavy ,

You're not the smartest guy in the room, I think most people understand that.

I don't think you understand that you're white knighting (haha) for white people like they need protecting or something, like that's the concern here.

It sounds like you don't give a shit about countering fascism, you give a shit about defending white people.

Just be mindful that you're in an echo chamber environment here.

Or don't, keep fighting the fight for the whites 💪

Redredme ,

Yeah, you seem a lot smarter. Good for you.

MindTraveller ,

Have you ever heard of Japanese fascists? Or Jewish fascists? Any race can be fascist.

heavy ,

Oh wow, that's crazy. White people too though right?

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

So you're saying White Fascists Matter?

MindTraveller ,

Yes, that's what "any race" means.

webghost0101 ,

Am i that much more extreme for thinking that the best solution for Nazis isn’t discriminating against them but educating people to respect so Fascist ideal can no longer take hold?

I know of intolerance for the intolerant, I've spread that message myself i am just no longer convinced that burying the problem into private conversations only (Which should be absolute free speech unless you want some sort of police control inside your home) is tackling the problem at the source.

My wish is to eradicate this ideology once and for all not to hide it like we try to do with homeless in rich neighborhoods.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

Education is better and preferred but ocne5 the Nazis are in the street they've already taken hold and need to be uprooted before we can go back to educating it away.

webghost0101 ,

Once there in the in the streets and are expressing their hostility toward others it becomes self defense to push back.

Nazis should be either

  • spouting their shit in private so their social circle gets the message that their guy is sick and probably needs therapy.

  • in therapy where no speech is taboo and the goal is to improve themselves.

  • in public, not expressing their shit because there starting to understand that its wrong, therapy is long term ongoing progress.

Where they definitively shouldn’t be and i would regard as a hostile act.

  • marching down the streets in group with firearms.
mal3oon ,

The issue is the overuse of the word Nazi. Like the left is throwing at anything to try to make it stick, and we saw how Europe reacted to that. People have issues that are ignore by the ruling powers and we're left there to fester for so long. From the grooming of Rotherham, to the sexual assault of Cologne, to the countless other instances that are facing EU resident's life every day. There are issues that are not addressed. And just throwing "nazi" at anyone that try to bring these issues to life is inconsiderate and just circle jerking: "I think that sounds so cool to say Nazi on any random political post on the internet".

webghost0101 ,

I am only really talking about individuals with fascist ideologies that refuse to respect and assault the freedoms of others.

You know, “nazis”. The word has evolved a bit since the Wehrmacht i do admit.

poVoq ,
@poVoq@slrpnk.net avatar

People that solely focus on these "issues" are called "Nazis" because by all objective measures these are rare and inconsequential events that got way over-blown in the media and serve no other purpose than to distract from the real issues in Europe. If you can't or don't want to understand that you are either extremely stupid or are indeed a Nazi that is pushing an agenda. These "issues" are not being "ignored" and left "festering" because the real and only issue there are the people that think that these are "issues" aka Nazis.

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

Remember kids, it’s not hypocrisy to be intolerant of the intolerant. They have broken the social compact and are therefore no longer protected by it.

SpikesOtherDog ,

I was going to joke about some kind of social powder case, but it turns out that compact and contact are synonymous here.

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

I was going to joke about some kind of social vision correction device that goes on your eyeball, but then I realized you meant contract. ;)

ThunderclapSasquatch ,

Instructions unclear, stabbed myself in the eye with the things from Prey

JohnDClay ,

I've usually heard horseshoe theory referring to tankies/authoritarian communists, not anti fascists.

idiomaddict ,

My dad swears up and down that antifa are the real nazis. I think this would be a response to that type of thing.

octopus_ink ,

Is your dad in this thread? I think I just replied to him.

MindTraveller ,

Ask him if he opposes the antifa fascists. When he says yes, call him antifa

idiomaddict ,

My favorite thing in the world is calling him antifa :)

mathemachristian ,

Guess where the antifaschistische aktion has it roots...

Enkrod ,

In 1919, Benito Mussolini united various groups in the then Kingdom of Italy to form the Fasci di combattimento. During the Biennio rosso (1919-1921), the Black Shirts used targeted terror against striking industrial workers, the Partito Socialista Italiano (PSI) and all opposition. As a result, local and regional anti-fascist groups as well as vigilante groups emerged from 1920 onwards, encompassing the entire political spectrum, from Catholics and liberals to socialists and anarchists.

Emphasis by me

In 1921, Mussolini transformed his militia movement into the National Fascist Party. The first armed anti-fascist organization came into being in 1921 with the Arditi del Popolo. It was open to anarchists, communists, social democrats, Christians and bourgeois republicans. However, the leadership of the PSI and the Partito Comunista Italiano (PCI) rejected the League. It remained limited to a few thousand members and a few cities.[3] This was the first organization with an explicitly anti-fascist self-image. Its supporters referred to themselves as antifascisti[4].

Emphasis by me

Arditi del Popolo

It grouped revolutionary trade-unionists, socialists, communists, anarchists, republicans, anti-capitalists, as well as some former military officers

Composed of Italian anarchists, socialists, and communists, the Arditi del Popolo were not supported by leftist parties (neither by the Italian Socialist Party, PSI, nor by the Communist Party of Italy, PCd'I).

Furthermore, the PCd'I ordered its members to quit the organization because of the presence of non-communists in its ranks.[8] The PCd'I organized by themselves some militant groups (the Squadre comuniste d'azione), but their actions were relatively minor and the party kept a non-violent, legalist strategy.

The Antifaschistische Aktion grew in the soil of the SPD and KPD in Nazi Germany (which themselves where not autoritarians or tankies at the time), but it's roots are older, decidedly anti-authoritarian and open to the entire political spectrum that wanted to fight fascism.

Edit: Antifascism is represented by a red and a black flag. How you could ever think is has anything to do with the authoritarian left when it's roots are so extremely anarchist is beyond me.

MelodiousFunk ,
@MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net avatar

Look, can't we just find some common ground and meet in the middle?

https://slrpnk.net/pictrs/image/0cc117fe-d328-4781-83b7-78b45e5ae436.webp

...hmm.

Alternatively

https://slrpnk.net/pictrs/image/0b6b796d-bf2e-4aee-bb47-012592df8b81.webp

...double hmm.

capital ,

Don’t forget the speech one. Both said no on that one.

The rest I’m on board with.

LibertyLizard ,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

Memes that come with citations? Now that’s how you shitpost.

mal3oon ,

Fascist definition: Anyone I disagree with.
That's some solid research conrade.

Zozano ,

You should host a course titled:

How to identify yourself as a fascist 101

Also, fuck off, fascist.

mal3oon ,

Also, fuck off, fascist.

Thanks for proving my point.

Zozano ,

this you?

mal3oon ,

Yes? Let's not make this thread too, make your argument and let me reply, this is no irc chat.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

No, this is airing dirty Nazi laundry. Say Nazi shit, get called a Nazi.

LibertyLizard ,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

Are you referring to something specific here or just venting? I certainly don’t call anyone I disagree with a fascist, but there are many people in the present society who advocate for fascist ideas. What else should we call them?

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Black isn’t a colour.

Warl0k3 ,

Never bought paint before, eh?

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Black is the absence of light and therefore not a colour.

But it is a shade.

pennomi ,

Color is a far broader word than that, even if in some niche uses it’s specific.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Next you’re going to tell me zero is a number and not just a placeholder.

NewNewAccount ,

You’re not good at this.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Apparently not.

Zagorath ,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

Are you 12? This is the kind of context-less pedantry that could only come from someone with no real-world experience.

Words can have different meanings in different contexts, and can belong in different categories depending.

Zekas ,

Damn you got baited hard. Look at the username. Have you never seen a troll?

webghost0101 ,

Anyone internet user can choose to troll if they like. Maybe some people have troll alter ego but for most username is unrelated.

MindTraveller ,

Satansmaggotycumfart has been a Lemmy regular for many months. What's your problem with funny usernames? Do you find laughter offensive?

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Pigments dude...

Black is every single color at once in pigment.

White is every single color at once in light.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

That’s not black, that’s a mix of every colour.

MIT engineers made a ‘black’ using vertically aligned carbon nanotubes but it’s only 99.995% of the way to being a true black.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

A mix of every color in pigment is black because it absorbs every color wavelength of light so no color is reflected back to your eyes. All the things like vantablack are doing is trying to get the amount of light reflected back off the object to your eyes to be completely 0. Visible, or otherwise.

You're focusing entirely on the light aspect, forgetting that pigments and light work together to create what we understand as color.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Any pigment can be black depending on the lighting, but only black can be black in full light.

They are only 99.995% of the way to that using the carbon fibre pigment I described.

Not a mixture of every colour.

Kolanaki , (edited )
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Any pigment can be black depending on the lighting

No... Just because there isn't enough light to illuminate the object doesn't mean its pigmentation is black. Would you say that an object that is red becomes black if you close your eyes or turn off the lights?

The reason an object is black in full lighting is because it's absorbing all the wavelengths of colored light you can see due to its pigment containing all of those colors. That's why we have black objects that we can see and call "black." Because they're black.

Also, just because I am curious: What do you think a black light is/does?

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

If I gave you a black and a red ball in the dark you couldn’t tell me which is which.

If you gave me a ball painted with a conventional ’black’ paint and one that was painted with the pigment I described previously in full light I could.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

If I gave you a black and a red ball in the dark you couldn’t tell me which is which.

With my naked eyes? No. Because I can't see. But if you put them in a room I couldn't see and gave me the tools to analyze their molecular structure in a room I can see in, I could. (Or well, someone who knows how to use the equipment and read the measurements could anyway lol)

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

I wouldn’t need any special tools or tool-deciphering experts.

Bumblefumble ,

Is purple a colour?

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Yes but it is one of the lesser colours like orange.

JohnDClay ,

Lol I guess we have a hierarchy of colors now

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Yesterday we were discussing capitalism and today it’s colours.

sukhmel ,

Next thing you know it's going to be a book about the superiority of some colours and how inferior colours should no longer exist… wait a minute 🤔

HonoraryMancunian ,

Uh, yes? 'Blue and green reign supreme' as the saying that I just made up goes

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

"I'm blue, if I was green I would die, if I was green I would die..."

Bumblefumble ,

Well you contradict yourself, since there's no such thing as purple light, it must be as much a colour as black is. Have you considered your third-grade gotcha might not be quite nuanced enough for the real world? Or that the science of colours might be a little more complex than you first thought?

idiomaddict ,

That’s because it’s ultra purple when it’s light

MindTraveller ,

Not all colours are made of light.

Mango ,

Light isn't color. Color is exclusively in your head. It's a mental construct.

LANIK2000 ,

I was gonna say something about scientific definitions not being too useful and that you would need to deny that orange and purple are colors, while claiming that WIFI is, but then I actually looked it up and I can't find a definition that doesn't include "lightness" in the equation, aka, black and white (and orange too). Literally can only find an Adobe article claiming this and then countless online discussions.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

It’s pretty easy, black isn’t a colour.

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

A good troll should require barely any intervention from the person trolling. This chain has 20 comments; nine are yours. 9/20 = you suck at trolling. Sauce.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

I’m just having a friendly discussion.

lvxferre ,
@lvxferre@mander.xyz avatar

You're supposed to start with "Pardon me, I couldn't help but overh..." no no no wait nevermind that's a different type of troll, my bad.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f6a363a1-3456-48d4-a513-dec93412f2bd.webp

I like these trolls.

JohnDClay ,

I don't, their faces are creepy looking

Mango ,

A master troll can survive for a year on a few grains of MDMA and the dew on his bag of grass.

Mango ,

Yes it is. It's one of the 4 colors that can make all other colors! Blue, Magenta, Steve, and Black.

dethedrus ,

Steve is a secondary color!

toaster ,
@toaster@slrpnk.net avatar

Remember not to feed the trolls, people.

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