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Presi300 ,
@Presi300@lemmy.world avatar

How do they even know if you use your data as a hotspot? That's just ridiculous!

Appoxo ,

Probably local/system services on the app when the SIM is activated (like it's with sim locked phones)

pup_atlas ,

Nope, it’s either inspecting the TTL of packets coming from your phone (unless you have a VERY custom setup, the TTL from devices other than your phone will be very different), or it’s deep packet inspection. I tried to trick t-mobile last year into giving me home internet on a phone sim, so I did a whack ton of research.

Cl1nk ,

Did you find a way to avoid detection?

iliketurtles ,

On US Mobile (Verizon) using a VPN on my phone when tethering seems to bypass detection. At least the meter on the dashboard says I've used 0gb hotspot.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Makes you wonder what else they know about what you're doing online.

rab ,
@rab@lemmy.ca avatar

Read permanent record by snowden

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

He wrote that 5 years ago (admittedly I have yet to read it), so who knows what they've been able to do since then than he hadn't even thought of.

rab ,
@rab@lemmy.ca avatar

It's still very relevant and one of the most mind blowing things I've ever read

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Oh I'm sure it's still relevant, I'm saying things have probably gotten even worse.

rab ,
@rab@lemmy.ca avatar

Well if you ever read it you'll wonder how it can even get any worse haha

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

It can always get worse. Any time someone says it can't get any worse, it does.

I was told abortion restrictions couldn't get any worse too. Then they started removing rape exceptions.

UckyBon ,

Monitoring DNS requests to their own servers.

dsco ,

They look at the TTL of the incoming packets. This can be modified in the windows registry.

BilboBargains ,

Use a VPN. ISP are being disingenuous when they claim a data connection is unlimited at the point of purchase and then slug us with restrictions when we try and use it. If they can detect a tether, the VPN should obscure it.

the_third ,

Start the VPN from the phone though, otherwise the TTL-trick will still work for them.

Emerald ,

128kbps is only mildly better then dial up lmao

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

And it's 60mbps right now. Not amazing, but also manageable. They could cut it down to 10 or something, which would still make downloading huge files or whatever a pain in the ass, but would also still allow you to do basic things like watch Netflix.

Kcg ,

Start saving webpages for offline use like the good old days!

KillingTimeItself ,

the funniest thing to me, is that realistically, the most useful thing you can do with 128k is torrent.

ISP's literally incentivize you to torrent lmao.

uis ,
@uis@lemm.ee avatar

Yarr!

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

max 128kbps

TMobile doesn't have a hard throttle, but they'll cut priority under congestion so that if wherever you are has someone else vying for the bandwidth, they get first shot.

Frankly, given that the limited resource is the cell bandwidth, that seems like a more reasonable way to go. It doesn't hurt them much if someone wants available bandwidth and there's no contention for it from others.

pantherfarber ,

For hotspot T-Mobile does have a hard throttle. Once you reach your cap you get limited to 128 kbps. It's only phone data that has the soft cap.

psycho_driver ,

I thought T-Mobile's throttle was 600kbps now?

pantherfarber ,

It may depend on the plan. Mine limits it to 128 kbps after I reach the 3gb cap for hotspot.

You've used 100% of Smartphone Mobile Hotspot high speed data on your T-Mobile plan. Your Smartphone Mobile Hotspot speed will now be limited to 128 kbps until 03/05/2024. Data on your smartphone will still be at full speeds. Buy more at

zip ,

Mine is the same way and I get the exact same messages.

ysjet ,

I can assure you, the multi-million dollar organization does not need your defense of them.

Raiderkev ,

It's because at&t also sells home Internet. If you have unlimited hotspot, then you wouldn't want that sweet sweet DSL or whatever shit Internet ATT sells

MonkderZweite ,

They can detect you using your phone as hotspot? Creepy.

jkrtn ,

The phone reports it, yeah, it is creepy. Should be illegal to even have the knowledge to differentiate.

michael_palmer ,

TTL is a part of TCP/IP.

kent_eh ,

It's not hard to detect when the standard includes the phone indicating what it's doing to the carrier.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Very creepy.

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Sometimes it's based on the TTL of packets. TTL for hotspot clients will be one less than TTL for directly using data on the phone, since the phone is acting as a router, which adds an extra hop.

I think running a HTTP proxy or VPN server on the phone would mask it (since the connections would then be made by the phone directly), but I've never tried.

michael_palmer ,

Android phones don't share VPN connections through the hotspot

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Ahh - that's unfortunate. A HTTP proxy should work though.

humbletightband ,

My provider used MTU as a reference. I simply changed it in hotspot settings and was happy about that

psion1369 ,

I used to root my phone and then could use the hotspot without my provider knowing.

madcaesar ,

wHy dOeS aNyOnE nEeD rOoT??? - morons replying to me when I tell them rooting our phones is essential to have FULL control over it.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

I'd have a lot of fun trying to get around it. For example, if the phone and the computer were on the same non-Internet-connected wifi network, and you set up an SSH server to send outbound requests through the 4G modem, would they be able to find out you're using the hotspot?

wander1236 ,
@wander1236@sh.itjust.works avatar

There are a ton of methods carriers use to detect hotspot traffic, from the device itself handling the categorization, to TTL values attached to requests, to other very clever network sniffing strategies.

JDubbleu ,

Every method I've encountered in the past was thwarted by a good ole VPN. This was all on unlocked or rooted phones though so YMMV work carrier phones.

CanadaPlus ,

I'd just try to disguise the traffic as coming from something else. Someone further down says just switching to an OS that doesn't actively snitch does the trick, but if you really wanted you could make your requests look like just about anything, given added volume is free.

LucidDaemon ,

If you use a VPN it can also mask it too. That's how I used to get around it before moving to Google Fi.

whotookkarl ,
@whotookkarl@lemmy.world avatar

Same, if I have unlimited data it's none of their business what that data is

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

Plug it in via USB cable, shouldn't register as a hotspot then. At least that's how it works on linux, IDK about other OS.

skuzz ,

Carriers in the US configure phones so that the tethering APN is always used for tethering specifically over all interfaces, the traffic is also tagged with a different TTL. They also do some malarkey with deep packet inspection (in case you figure out how to modify the APN) to identify if a computer is using the connection (like the initial phone home Windows and Mac both do to determine the type/quality of Internet connection they are connected to.)

All of this one can work around, but it becomes an annoying game of cat and also cat, and then if the carrier "decides" you violated the "spirit" of their TOS, they'll cancel your plan and take your number away.

CaptainHowdy ,
@CaptainHowdy@lemm.ee avatar

This is only possible if you get your phone from the carrier, right? They wouldn't be able to differentiate if you were using an unlocked phone you got from Google or Amazon?

skuzz ,

They force configs on unlocked phones as well, or just don't "certify" them and refuse to let them work. AT&T will go the extra step of locking you out of your SIM card until you call them. The other two are pretty passive about it and your phone just doesn't work right until you put the SIM back in a phone they "like".

edgesmash ,

... but it becomes an annoying game of cat ND also cat...

Hello, The Monarch: https://y.yarn.co/d40afa8f-93a1-4a74-bd4b-328c3bcc8d00_text.gif

ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

Some or all major mobile providers outright BAN hotspots in their ToS. However, they don't enforce the rule as it would be very unpopular.

And we still have pretty much the most expensive cellular data in the EU. The triopoly sucks.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

Your data is unlimited, the SPEED of the data is not. ;)

alphacyberranger ,
@alphacyberranger@sh.itjust.works avatar

That's like trying to download 1 TB on a dial-up connection. It'll never be done.

Etterra ,

Oh no I can assure you it'll be done. It's just so slow that by the time you finish not only will your modern be teetering on the ruckity precipice of death, but you'll have already upgraded to a neutral modem for direct-to-mind augmented reality. Remember to get an ad blocker and VPN for your cerebrum.

LaFinlandia , (edited )
@LaFinlandia@sopuli.xyz avatar

I know this is going to sound like an ad. Visible has unlimited 5G, and 5Mbps* hotspot, for $25/mo. It's owned by Verizon.

p1mrx ,

Worth noting: "Visible includes mobile hotspot with unlimited data at speeds up to 5Mbps."

AA5B ,

Wow, the 5g had me excited there for a moment

phoneymouse ,

Yeah if you pay for the $45/plan it’s 10Mbps speed

bartolomeo ,
@bartolomeo@suppo.fi avatar

I think companies call that "innovation" these days.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Anything that makes more profits is "innovation."

If they could profit from rape, they'd do so and call it innovative.

Tlaloc_Temporal ,

Legislation basically specifing such has been passed for some reason, and I bet that reason is money.

Alk ,

Get Google fi if it's available. Very consumer friendly. Actually let me rephrase that. More consumer friendly than most other cell providers. But it's still Google.

At least all the pricing and features are straight forward and they don't lock any features (like Hotspot) behind paywalls.

GroundedGator ,

Every time the ATT sales people bug me at stores I tell them what I'm paying and that I get unlimited hotspot and they usually say "oh, you're good."

Add to this that Fi actually allows you to add data only SIMS at no cost.

bandwidthcrisis ,

Yeah, even using a hotspot internationally it's the same price, with the same data limits.

And with data-SIMs, it's possible to share that data with a few other devices, still at no extra cost.

Those features are often overlooked when people ask why it's more expensive than e.g. Mint.

Alk ,

Yeah. I haven't used mint, but the apps, account management and overall ease of use and transparency is legendary with Google fi. Those things are also easy to overlook. It's just so easy and doesn't get in my way when I want to manage something like all other carriers.

phoneymouse ,

It’s too expensive. Visible is cheaper and unlimited everything, even hot spot, and no soft data cap.

atrielienz ,

https://www.reddit.com/r/Visible/comments/efsmwg/warning_there_is_a_data_cap/

I know I know, Reddit post. But there is in fact a soft data cap. The guy who made the post was torrenting and received an email for reaching the data abuse threshold.

If you're using FI, and you set the device your using the phone hotspot for to metered connection you're not too terribly likely to reach the data cap on pretty much any of the unlimited fi plans. I do this for work.

phoneymouse , (edited )

lol… 30 terabytes?! Okay. I’m sure even Google Fi has a cap like that. Most people would struggle to even come close to that. It’s 30x the cap of even a home internet provider like Comcast, which usually limits you to 1 terabyte. Most people would have a really hard time hitting even that on their mobile.

The other thing to consider is Visible is cheaper than Google FI too. And most people aren’t going to use anywhere near 30 terabytes.

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