Amen. Monitors, digital signage and, as you said, business projectors are the way. CEC, auto input switching and ARC are all the smarts I want in a TV.
I've got an order out for a digital signage display to replace my living room tv. It was more than I would've spent on a "smart" tv but it's a dumb box that I can plug anything I want into. If they sold dumb TV's still I'd probably upgrade some of the other TV's my family has, but fuck smart TV's.
Sharp NEC is the brand I bought from. They have models you can put a raspberry pi directly inside of it. I've got a pi with librelec waiting for the screen to show up. However they're really expensive. Sceptre makes more affordable dumb TV's but they don't make very large ones.
The 85 inch display I've got coming is listed as 4k HDR with full array local dimming. As far as actual accuracy is concerned, I've heard good things about Sharp NEC specifically but I won't know until my unit eventually arrives.
How do they compare to TVs? At least the last time I looked into it, pretty much every TV was terrible compared to even a halfway decent computer monitor.
OLED TVs are insanely good and spoiled using the computer altogether for me, until I got an OLED monitor. At least on my LG B2, the color gamut and contrast are extremely good. I can’t stand LCDs for anything dark as the backlight bleed really washes out the picture.
If you're willing to pay up, there's some amazing new laser projectors that can be placed just a few inches from the wall, so basically where your TV would sit, and are super bright. I saw some YouTube videos about some models from LG. They cost 2k or more depending on the model.
They'll pry my 10-year old non-smart TV out of my dead cold hands. It's a 1080p Toshiba that can connect to anything (4x HDMI, VGA, composite, component, SCART, coax and satellite), has a CI/CI+ slot, has DLNA support, and can record/replay using a USB SSD. The only regret I have is that I should've bought the larger model.
Okay, so people have less disposable income than they did a few years ago, and less need for indoor entertainment devices than they did during the pandemic. Is it really surprising that fewer purchases are being made? (Plus, did they include "digital signage" and monitors with HDMI inputs when they were compiling the statistics?)
That's because there's no reason for most people to buy another TV. The majority of people who would want one already have a TV, and there has been no technological advancement in the last decade or two that would entice anyone to throw away their already perfectly acceptable large LCD/OLED/whatever television just to buy another one just like it.
The only thing anyone has been able to come up with is making all TV's internet connected and "smart," which is a feature that approximately nobody except the MBA's in charge of the companies cranking them out seems to actually want.
This. Nowadays people mostly buy TVs when their old ones break. There's no marginal improvement. The industry is here to stay, but its high growth days are in the past.
We have also seen the budget range improve in quality and affordability. There will always be cheap junk TVs and overly expensive TVs, but that midrange, where most people buy, has become rock solid. There just isn’t much region to upgrade at the moment.
And we've mostly hit the limit of usable maximum sizes. For like the last two decades you could upgrade your TV to the next bigger size every few years for the same money you paid for the last one.
I remember starting with a maybe... 21" LCD TV back in 2005ish, and for that money today I could get like 70" TV.
I don't have space to fit one that large, nor do I have any need for it even if I could.
This tends to track with what I see in my family and friend’s homes. People tend to do couch streaming via the smart TV’s apps.
Personally, I think a fast, separate HDMI CEC device is a MUCH better user experience, and it’s still one remote. But for whatever reason, a lot of people aren’t opting to go with a separate AppleTV, GoogleTV ChromeCast, Roku, game console, etc.
But do they use it because it’s there, or do they actually go out and buy a TV because of the smart features? I’d much rather have a separate device (and do) than use the built in smart features. I would greatly prefer to buy a TV with no smart features and just continue using my AppleTV than have to buy a new TV every time the built in system stopped getting updates.
There was a time when people were buying the smart TV because Netflix and Apple were then apps on the TV and used the same remote.
But the apps are old and crunchy, the tv shovels ads at you, and the steamers are no longer offering the value required to make smart TVs a prime consolidation target.
I am looking forward to the contraction of the market and a shift back to "just a TV with 4 HDMIs" models. No tuners even.
Upgraded my £200 dumb LCD to a £1000 OLED 3 years ago. My wife much prefers the simplicity and reliability of the TV remote and inbuilt smart features over separate devices. It's all personal preference
We were that way as well for a few years. Then the updates cause the sluggishness of the internal processor to become apparent… and then the updates stop completely. An internal smart system can’t be upgraded, external ones can. Not to mention that the HDMI spec will auto start the TVs and put it to the right input automatically when you turn in a connected device.
Tvs have a short lifespan, now. People have to replace them like every 5 years on average, I'd guess. I think people have less tvs in their homes, though.
The other part of this is that people brought a lot of tvs up to a couple years ago when there was a decade long stretch of LED back-lit tvs. The problem was that there might be 100 leds back there and a single one going out junked the tvs. They were cheaply fixable, but not easily fixable. Most people wouldn't be able to do it.
People replace then that often!? Damn...I have an old 1080p LED tv from Samsung that's more than a decade old and still going strong. Blacks aren't the best on it, but not bad enough to warrant an upgrade.
You kind of got lucky. I have the skills and equipment to find the bad ones and replace those LEDs on them. Keep an eye on Facebook marketplace and it's impressive how many people will put up their three year old 65+ inch tvs that don't work for free just to get rid of them because they can't fit in a trash can.
Getting to the LEDs without breaking anything is usually the hard part. Aside from like a million screws and clips, the screen itself is extremely thin and fragile, and you have to pick it up and move it around without cracking it. Little 40 or 50 inch tvs are fairly easy to do, but those 70+ inch tvs are going to take handled suction cups and a couple of people.
Then finding the burnt out led isn't much work with the right tools, and neither is soldering on a new led. So much trouble for just a single little LED that I can literally but in rolls of 100 for like $12.
So yeah, your TV breaks because of a 12 cent led. And that's consumer prices. Samsung probably pays like 5 cents.
The one thing I disagree with is the technological advancement. I feel like there has been advancement, but the problem is the cost of those advancements. No one is pining to drop thousands/tens of thousands of dollars on OLED, Micro-led, or whatever the hell else they have come out with over the years. On top of that the crappy interfaces of these TV's as well as privacy problems. See the recent roku debacle.
With some exceptions, enthusiasm in technology is in decline in general. We are peaking in terms of rate of progress across the board, from computer speed to smart phone innovation to TV specs. When's the last time ordinary folks got excited about a new phone release? Who cares about a TV larger than 60 inches? It's not like most people can even afford a wall big enough to put it on. Who cares about anything more than 4k on a tiny screen?
Meanwhile, the cost of living is only increasing, and consumer trust in product life support is in decline. Stories about TVs listening to private conversations, or holding your device hostage for forced TOS updates, anti-right to repair, the mountain of e-waste and micro plastics, pervasive DRM, enshitified services, subscription hardware...
Should we be surprised? No.
The only thing that gets me excited about tech any more is repairability and offline/local networking.
For gaming probably HDMI 2.1 for higher frame rates, VRR, and/or 40fps with ray tracing and whatnot.
But in general…not really. I just got a new tv for these features plus it having a brighter oled panel than my last one. But at this point I imagine I’ll have this tv for years and years.
But as an answer for if there were any “killer features” in TVs for the last few years, better inputs and panel refresh rates are about the best new things outside of brighter OLEDs.
I was playing devil's advocate to that, implying they are not killer features. TV gaming is generally consoles, which are all 60fps in 99% of cases anyway.
TVs with actual new panels or features are far too expensive for people to consider, when their current ones already do the job.
The thing is, all those features are locked behind units that cost several thousand dollars. So, they're never going to see large volumes of sales or widespread adoption until they trickle into the sub-$1k and sub-$300 price points.
QD-OLED just came into the market in the past couple years and is definitely worth some hype for someone like me that was hanging onto an old plasma, but in general TV's have been excellent for ages, if you already have an OLED or higher end TV with HDR you probably don't need to upgrade for a long time.
If you've got disposable income and use the latest tech devices as a status symbol, absolutely.
If you're going the projector route, I'd say definitely. New laser projectors and screen tech is waaaaaay beyond what it used to be.
If you're a gamer (or using a TV as a PC monitor) I'd say yes, the tech here has advanced quite a bit, and 4K gaming looks really good if your hardware can support it.
If you've got a home theater setup, and are a movie buff, I'd say maybe, depending on how big of screen you want, how much money you want to spend, and how satisfied you are with your current gear. For me I don't think the latest tech improvements justify the thousands of dollars of new gear I'd have to re-buy just to get 4K/HDR and ATMOS support when most of the movies I watch don't even have good 5.1 tracks and are still on 480i or 1080p based media because they're so old.
If you're a casual viewer of movies, streaming content, and TV shows, absolutely not. Any LED 1080p capable TV that isn't trash tier is fine.
Projector guy here. Once you get a taste you don't wanna go back. The tech has gotten so much better over the last 10 years and short throw projectors are a game changer.
Make more dumb TVs and my interest in buying a new one goes up significantly. Im actively avoiding buying a new one even though I have to furninsh a good sized living room and all I have right now is a bit small for the space. It'll still work.
You can always just not use the smart features, and if you do want them, pick up a chromecast to plug into it. Walmart's one is like $20 and holds its own against the more expensive ones.
There are tons of dumb TVs out there but they're more expensive because the ads and data harvesting subsidizes the cost.
I know it's not a perfect suggestion but I agree with the other comment: buy a smart TV and never connect it to the internet. The vast majority of displays don't gain anything (outside of the "smart" features) with firmware updates. The exceptions to that are very rare.
It sucks to have to buy a streaming box on top of it but the two items combined is less than a commercial (dumb) display. Even at cost.
Though instead of a Chromecast for streaming, I'd consider an AppleTV...I'm not a fan of Apple but it's hands down the best streaming box I've used outside of a dedicated HTPC.
i connect my smart TV, along with IoT devices to an internet only group with DNS adblock. I also use an Xbox for streaming but looking at replacing it with a shield or something once my gamepass runs out.
I keep hearing people say that, but I paid thousands of dollars for my TV to still have ads. The days of if you don't pay for the product then you are the product is dead. You will pay for it and still be the product regardless of cost.
It’s sad how Apple’s strategy of “just use an actually fast CPU and make a Home Screen without ads” is a breakthrough in the industry. It shows what a fucking mess everyone else is in.
The home screen on an AppleTV has ads, unfortunately. The main thing I like about it is how responsive it is - made possible by both the hardware and software. I also really like the remote, though I preferred the one from a generation or two ago.
What I DON'T like about it is that a few years ago Apple disabled IP control unless you set it up through HomeKit. If you don't want to use HomeKit, enjoy your IR control.
Based on this dip, what do we think the industry will try to push on us to get us to upgrade? Are we see them start to push 8k content or 3D again or "smarter" tv's?
Especially be sure to avoid anything with ACR (automatic content recognition). If it detects you're watching content from an unapproved source, it will bug you to watch it on that approved source such as a streaming service. It's just a software update, or a congress bill away from reporting anyone who watches pirated content on their TV. So just beware.
I bought a tv like 8 years ago, the day the warranty went it got issues.
Some annoying bullshit (according to google) has to do with magnets and they are all visible now, it looks like shit but i really don't give a damn as i rarely care for what is on as long as it's making sound i don't need to hear the neighbours.
All i could think was: it still works, fuck this company i'm keeping it.
It's not just the technology. Why buy a TV when the subscriptions cost a fortune and the shows are crap? We have the Internet now, and watch less TV than before.
4K came out in 2012 and 8K just isn't that popular, in part due to content issues but also people's eyesight. If you don't need a new TV now, why would you buy an upgrade?
The Roku that I purchased 6 years ago just bricked itself until I agreed to forced arbitration. This, of course, has nothing to do with the data breach they just announced.
Agreed. You shouldn't have to trust that some third party software built into your TV won't abuse your trust and shut everything down until you do what it's owners want.
I've got an external Roku and if it starts being a dick, I can just unplug it and toss it in the trash and I still have a working TV.
I bought a 65" TV in 2013. It's good enough for me. I don't need 4k at home. It got zapped after 9 years, but there were tons of power supply boards on eBay for $40 each. Turns out a lot of people break the display and sell the other parts.
And it should stay that way. I don’t want another product with planned obsolescence.
They could only try to end your TV by not supporting its apps because of its age, but luckily you can just plug a computer or a console on it to get all the apps you need.
Still, for now, I enjoy using my TV apps with an alternate launcher like Flauncher instead of the normal Android one.
Is it just that we have in the last few years reached the threshold for large TVs to have come down in price and up in quality for them to be worth the purchase - but also the incentive to get a new tv to have a bigger/higher quality picture isnt worth the upgrade (or just your satisfied with the product you have).
And then factoring in that practically worldwide inflation and cost of living is out of control and people sure can make do without a fancy TV when instead they can have food and pay their rent.
Next article "is streaming dead? We keep putting up prices and consumers are dropping subscriptions!"
Yesterday I was in an electronics store and saw a 65" 8K TV and a 65" 4K TV. The difference in image clarity is almost imperceptible even if you get up close. Maybe 8K will be useful for huge TVs like 85" or more.
