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Crackhappy ,
@Crackhappy@lemmy.world avatar

Pass, it's not open source.

EtherWhack ,
@EtherWhack@lemmy.world avatar

The one benefit of open source of having more eyes on the code to find any bugs would likely be its weakness, given that systems like these aren't updated frequently, any bugs found and made public could open the door to exploiting,

danc4498 ,

I tried to use it and it wouldn’t work for me. Got halfway through the process and asked some question about me that seemed basic, but resulted in me not being able to use it.

LucidNightmare ,

The catch is that it requires ID.me, and there is no way in hell I'm giving some third party a picture of my fucking drivers license.

brbposting OP ,

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/e187b47a-e64e-4815-aa49-8777f607e63c.jpeg

…to print my ID in the first place?

(But yes clearly worse to allow personal data to be stored in an additional system.)

LucidNightmare ,

Right, my government also gave me a number at my birth. They know where I live, they know how much I make and where I work. The third party, ID.me, definitely does NOT need any of my information, since the entity that is taxing me, already does.

brbposting OP ,

Depressing thought: there’s a remote possibility the government is inept enough trying to roll around verification system that a third party has a safer solution.

Positive thinking: maybe the government is just using a third party until they’ve had time to make their own service entirely bombproof. Let’s go with that for our sake.

asdfasdfasdf ,

And then ID.me becomes the new TurboTax and starts lobbying the government to not compete with them.

brbposting OP ,

Noooooooooooo

CosmicTurtle0 ,

The problem is that given all of the data breaches, anyone can use your social security number, address, etc. and file a return on your behalf.

In theory, that's what ID.me is preventing.

But if your wallet gets stolen, good luck.

BakedCatboy ,

Huh, I already signed up for it because they started requiring it a while back to access historical tax return documents through the IRS website.

timbuck2themoon ,

Seems odd. They've been pushing login.gov like everywhere.

binomialchicken ,

It will eventually be supported, and in the interim they have stated that they won't keep biometric data obtained through ID.me once a verification is completed, or you can opt for an online interview where no biometrics are collected in the first place.

https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-statement-new-features-put-in-place-for-irs-online-account-registration-process-strengthened-to-ensure-privacy-and-security

Who knows if ID.me will actually delete the data on their end though, or if the online interview is recorded by the provider.

huginn ,

Government biometric requirements really aren't a joke. They perform pretty regular audits and the liability of not deleting ID could be company ending.

They might not delete your biometrics, but I'd be shocked if they didn't. It's far more likely that they not only delete it but have an audit trail proving deletion.

Trainguyrom ,

I even had to make a login.gov account to apply to some federal jobs (ironically enough one was with the IRS even!)

On a related note, it appears based on their job listings that the IRS will not hire anyone who owes them money

240p ,

I hope more scrutiny is given to ID.me. I'll only be using Direct File if they remove it as a dependency.

ShepherdPie ,

Interesting that third parties like TurboTax aren't required to obtain copies of your photo ID.

LucidNightmare ,

I looked it up, and there is an article from the end of last year that says they are about to be required or are already required.

I can't recall ever putting my license on one of these tax preppers, but I am also older and more privacy concerned in my older age, so I would definitely not do it now.

CosmicTurtle0 ,

At that point, might be better to hand-file your return. In many of these programs they offer you the ability to print and mail your return.

Your refund takes longer of course.

LucidNightmare ,

Eh, I’ve only gotten like $20 back max the last three years. They can take as long as they want, I will not be giving any third parties anything that they truly do not need.

SulaymanF ,

Why, do they sell data?

LucidNightmare ,

It would not surprise me in the least, but more importantly, if they get breached and they have sloppy mechanisms in place, my license could be fully out there in the wild. May be whatever to some, but I think it’s too risky to trust some company with it that also has contracts with the government itself.

ID.me offers numerous identity verification products,[9] supplied by third parties. For "high-assurance" identity verification, the company verifies personal data, including drivers' licenses, passports, and social security numbers.[21] Users must also take a video selfie with their phones, using the ID.me photo app.[1] If ID.me fails to verify users through this information, users are directed to talk to a "Trusted Referee" video call.[22] ID.me users have expressed frustration due to long delays on its video call line

meowMix2525 ,

Wouldn't they need to already have your data to check your driver's license against it?

JackbyDev ,

I had to use that for my unemployment insurance claims.

baggins ,

Wow congrats USA for doing something that makes sense before Canada.

nexussapphire ,

I still wish we got a bill at the end of the year like some European countries. Maybe a deadline to send in special forums in case of some edge cases but they know what's up .

cybersandwich ,

It's literally the Biden admin. They've made it a huge priority and followed through.

People knock Biden, but he's been consistently doing this stuff across the government. It's refreshing.

Trainguyrom ,

I keep bringing up how awesome the new SAVE federal student loan repayment program is. Income based repayments that go as low as $0 with the federal government covering any interest that you payment would have gone towards, plus after 10 years of payments balances of $12k and less are forgiven (11 years for $13k, 12 years for $14k, etc.)

So if you got a low paying degree from a community college, like say an early childhood education degree, you get pretty close to free education since you can make your $0 payments every month and get your entire student debt forgiven after a decade. Or if you have a career that doesn't pay much at first but ratchets up you only make payments when you have the income to make them, and still get forgiven after 10 years, and there's no real penalty to paying the $0 payments earlier since the balance hasn't grown and is still forgiven on the same date. Or like many people who attend community college, if you end up dropping out and getting no degree, you're not penalized like earlier plans would have penalized you.

blindbunny ,

how much longer til they just do it for me and leave me the fuck alone?

brbposting OP ,

🤞

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/80caafd7-4e0a-41a2-9a1f-e49992d769e3.jpeg

HootinNHollerin ,

He gets it

ZombiFrancis ,

Dude's face alone has accounting credentials: https://www.congress.gov/member/brad-sherman/S000344

HootinNHollerin ,

I’ll take that over celebrities as politicians any day

chiisana ,
@chiisana@lemmy.chiisana.net avatar

They have all the info, so this shouldn’t even be necessary. They should be able to just send me a tax bill/refund with the break down automatically. If I want to dispute it, then I’d have to pay the big bucks to get fancy accountants to dispute. Otherwise it should just be one less thing vast majority of the people would ever have to worry about.

TrickDacy ,

Well, yeah, but seriously the first reaction to an improvement that never seemed possible before is to discard it as not enough?

PunnyName ,

Fuck TurboTax, fuck H$R Block

ID411 ,

I guess the donations weren’t big enough this year.

PhlubbaDubba ,

But is it compatible with the tax filing dating sim?

xeekei ,

Welcome to 2005, America!

Evil_Shrubbery ,

Huh, I went to check - we did it in 2003 (for vat and income tax iirc, ofc they expended it since, nowdays only courtroom stuff doesn't have online admin systems).

Prior to that you just got the (already filled out) income tax form in the mail - if everything was ok that was usually it. In case you still owed, it included the bill, it they owed you they wired the money to your bank.

If the tax forms were incomplete for some reason (or just not optimised between the members of the same family) you could fill in what they missed (like literally with a pen) & send it back (for them to verify & return it to youb revised).

(This system still works so folk who prefer to do it via paper can do that.)

GiddyGap ,

Hold my beer...American pulling out checkbook

Vorticity ,

Even without access to Direct File since I wasn't in a pilot state, I've been using the IRS' "Free Fillable Forms" for the last few years and they've worked great! They don't hold your hand as much as the paid software but for my returns they've been more than adequate and free!

Does anyone know how "Direct File" differs from the "Free Fillable Forms"? Does it hold your hand a little more and help you find credits/deductions? Free Fillable Forms worked well, but only so long as I knew what I needed to file. New circumstances, like adding a dependent, lead to a lot of research.

punkaccountant ,

Yes, direct file is guided with a checklist. However there are only certain situations where a taxpayer would qualify for direct file - there’s income limitations and only certain income types qualify (u would not be able to use it if u are self-employed or own rental properties for example). The IRS is planning to expand this but for now it’s limited tho the vast majority of taxpayers would qualify.

Anyone can use the free fillable forms but u either have to know what you’re doing or be comfortable reading irs form instructions if you have a more complex tax situation.

Empricorn ,

Eat shit, lobbying to make simple tax returns something you have to pay Turbo Tax, H&R Block, etc for.

School_Lunch ,

I don't know much about investing, but i wonder if it would it be a good time to short those companies?

Num10ck ,

it wouldve been earlier, but now this is priced into the stocks already.

scroll_responsibly ,
@scroll_responsibly@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

If you get investing returns (like from shorting those companies)… you’re ironically not eligible to use the IRS direct file pilot (or at least for this year).

Edit: this isn’t to knock direct file… which is good and cool (and should be expanded to have more features)

nova_ad_vitum ,

If you don't know much about investing then you shouldn't short anything ever. People who know about investing will tell you that even when your logic is 100 percent sound, the market isn't that predictable and in general the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

Lifter ,

Plus, the news of this would already be priced into the stock, so if anything the price is already low and these companies would need to pivot their business (which would increase the value again) or die (which would lower the price marginally, to zero). Either way, shorting is a bad strategy in this case.

Rubanski ,

Isn't shorting theoretically able to put you in infinite debt?

barsquid ,

I think you would be margin called and just have astronomical but not infinite debt.

mosiacmango , (edited )

Infinite and astronomical are used interchangeably here. Since you have to return a share to the person you borrowed it from, if you borrowed 1000 shares at $5 and sold them to make 5k, if the price jumps to something like $350 like gamestop, it would cost you $350,000 to cover them.

Making 5k to lose 350k might as well be an infinite loss ot that investor, even though its technically a "smallish" sum. At that scale, it would destroy most people.

You can also pay to keep a short going generally and try to wait out the madness, but you have to stay solvent to do it. The very stupid and very surprising "diamond handing" apes caused some hedge fund issues, although I think most just shrugged into other financial instruments.

bamboo ,

Theoretically, yes. A short is sorta a negative stock. When you hold a normal stock, the price can never go below zero. But when you hold a negative stock, there’s no maximum value that stock could rise to.

Wirlocke ,

I feel like shorting will always be riskier than normal investing. With stocks you have people at the company doing their best to raise that stock. With Shorts you are betting against a company that's trying to survive.

The chances of the CEO pulling something out of their ass, dubious or not, to maintain their profits is too high.

barsquid ,

It is already priced in. Our human speed reactions are far too slow when the news has this obvious of a consequence.

FiniteBanjo ,

Those companies actually helped develop this, see "free file alliance membership" for details. It includes 17 private companies such as Intuit, H&R Block, TaxSlayer, Tax$simple, etc.

johannesvanderwhales , (edited )

For what it's worth... You're already eligible to a free tax return if you're under a certain income. Edit: Reference - I think a lot of people are unaware of this.

bolexforsoup , (edited )
spoiler

asdfasfasfasfas

Ioughttamow ,

Thank fuck. Finally

Gigan ,
@Gigan@lemmy.world avatar

Wait really? What's the catch?

AreaKode ,

You get to pick which oligarch or corporation gets your tax money this year!

noodlejetski ,

I expect that you'll have to pay the money according to the statement

PseudorandomNoise ,
@PseudorandomNoise@lemmy.world avatar

Doubt there is one. The hard truth is that most Americans' taxes are pretty simple and straightforward. We can stop pretending that copying some boxes from a W2 and a 1099 is difficult.

I mean, personally I wish we'd stop pretending that the IRS isn't already fully aware of what you owe and could just do the filling for you, like in other countries, but until Grover Norquist fucks off forever we're stuck where we are.

kryptonianCodeMonkey ,

Right. Filing taxes should only be necessary if you have itemized writeoffs or wish to contest the IRS's statement of your tax liability. They already know what you earned their your employer, what's been paid in taxes, what basic credits your qualify for, etc. They know what you owe so long as you didn't have expenses to apply for that they couldn't assume or know about. The only reason they don't already do that or, at least until now, have a free public system for filing, it's because tax companies have lobbied for decades to be able to milk the public for cash to help them file and navigate their tax liability.

WalrusDragonOnABike ,

They know what you owe so long as you didn’t have expenses to apply for that they couldn’t assume or know about

Solo 401ks/IRA also wouldn't be something they know about until you file if I understand correctly. Guess you could that expenses?

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

They would go in the sections for 401ks and IRAs just like they do on the paper forms. The online form will have the same way to enter the additional deductions.

kryptonianCodeMonkey ,

They should (and do?) have the same information your employer, bank, or brokerage files. i.e. the same forms you use to fill out your taxes now. They know what you contributed to you 401k and your other retirement accounts.

WalrusDragonOnABike ,

Solo 401ks are where you're the employer (guess technically there's some wiggle room for others to be in your 401k, but from the perspective of such a person, wouldn't it just be a normal 401k?). So you have to report it yourself. The brokerage firm holding it won't.

kryptonianCodeMonkey ,

Well, yeah. If you're self employed, you have to report yourself too.

brbposting OP ,

The argument has been since free filing means only the wealthy will hire accountants, free filing would discriminate against the poor given a few mistakes will be made here and there.

I may not need to mention that disingenuous argument is made by the pirates at Intuit and their lobbyists.

PseudorandomNoise ,
@PseudorandomNoise@lemmy.world avatar

free filing would discriminate against the poor

As opposed to the current system where the richest among us can hire a whole team of accountants to find every deduction possible?

brbposting OP ,

Shhhh!!!

kryptonianCodeMonkey ,

It should also be noted that if the vast majority of people do nothing special on their taxes and just accept the government's assessment, then that leaves a much smaller group of people to be audited. And a much larger portion of those people will be those who are trying to weasel their way out of paying their share. Right now, with the IRS being criminally underfunded, they only focus on low hanging fruit, the small fries. With those people being boiler plater auto-accepting tax payers, that would mean the IRS has no reason to audit them and can focus on the big boys where the real cheats are. That's another big reason we do not have that sort of system and why the IRS is currently so underfunded (despite every dollar spent on the IRS generating between 5 and 9 dollars in revenue from tax fraud/evasion). Those kinds of people pay to make sure it doesn't happen.

brbposting OP ,

Ew

kryptonianCodeMonkey ,

?

brbposting OP ,

The ick:

Those kinds of people pay to make sure it doesn't happen.

Greedy losers

pdxfed ,

Holy Christ someone using disingenuous appropriately, I'd almost given up on the word. Thanks for saving it!

brbposting OP ,

Oh didn’t know it was misused!

🍻

Caboose12000 ,

How exactly is it usually misused? Its use here matches every other time I've seen it as far as I can tell

brbposting OP ,

I can tell you’re being ingenuous and I believe you

pdxfed ,

I always see it being used in place or dishonest for people who think they are the same and feel it makes them sound more intelligent.

Guy_Fieris_Hair ,

I understand why we do out taxes in the current situation, kinda. If the irs just sent you a bill it would be ripe for people thinking they were getting ripped off. People hating taxes and thinking they're getting robbed is about as American as it gets. The whole boston tea party thing. People on both side doing the math holds people accountable. Also the current tax bracket situation kinda needs some end of the year math. Now, if it was a flat tax, a fixed percent... THAT EVERYONE pays no matter how much you make then it would be easy math. But they gotta make sure the middle class is paying 22% of their income to the feds and the billionaires pay one tenth of a percent.... you know.. for reasons. Then there are a billion write-offs and loopholes the rich can exploit, so they gotta keep those there.

If it was, say, 5% for everyone, no matter what you make, then it could easily just come out of your check as you get paid with no bs at the end of the year.

kryptonianCodeMonkey ,

A flat tax is a poor tax. 5% of your income means WAAAAY more to someone working minimum wage with two kids than someone who has a second home, even if dollars and cents it's way less. And the wealthy will evade a flat tax as much as they already do a progressive tax.

Trainguyrom ,

Now, if it was a flat tax, a fixed percent…But they gotta make sure the middle class is paying 22% of their income to the feds and the billionaires pay one tenth of a percent… you know… for reasons.

I fall into the lower end of the middle class (nationally) and my income tax is about 11%, but on top of that, after deductions and credits I end up deducting myself into the lowest tax bracket and collecting credits so I get a nice chunk back every year. To actually pay a full 22% of your income in income taxes, you must be making pretty good bank (and probably spending pretty good bank if you're still considering yourself middle class)

Flat taxes are extremely regressive. The whole idea of tax brackets is that those with more ability to pay pay more and those with less ability to pay pay less. If you only make 22k/year you need all of that and that $2200 can be pretty lifechanging, but if you make 220k per year you can live without that $22k. There's also fun stuff with how much tax revenue the government can actually bring in depending on who they tax harder, and generally it favors taxing the rich at a much higher percentage rate than they do the poor.

SexualPolytope , (edited )
@SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I've been in the US for a few years now. All my colleagues told me that doing taxes is hard. So I used to reluctantly pay money to do it through Sprintax. This year, I decided to do it by hand. It took almost the same amount of time as it would've taken to do it through Sprintax, which is around 30 minutes.

EtherWhack ,
@EtherWhack@lemmy.world avatar

Even with multiple savings accounts, IRA/401ks, an investment account, and two W2s; it's still relatively straightforward. You just need to grab the forms, as they are legally supposed to be provided to you.

Delta_44 ,

In italy the data is pre-filled, you just have to check if there's something missing and you're good to go, but you still have to send the module manually, like going into the website and doing the stuff.

It should be all automatic, wtf

Kusimulkku ,

Don't they just assume that everything is good if you don't reply? Works that way here

Delta_44 ,

It's not a "reply", it's a thing that you have to do, so that if you owe the government something you'd pay it, elsa you'll receive money if the government owes you something (for example, a percentage of medical expenses gets "refunded")

Kusimulkku ,

Here if you owe something you'll get basically billed for it and if you are owed they just inform you about it and pay it to your account. If you are owed or you're even then you don't have to do a thing. No confirmation, nothing to do, you can ignore the whole thing. Is it the same for you guys?

Delta_44 ,

Unfortunaly not 😂

Dkarma ,

How is the IRS supposed to know you paid me 5k last year via check???
How do you think people who don't get w2 from their job have their income reported to the government? How do u think w2 get reported?

You have no clue how any of this actually works... stfu

brbposting OP ,

y u no be nice about it :(

Riven ,
@Riven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

All of those things you mentioned are edge cases which you would still be able to handle yourself if they auto filled everything for you.

I use an online tax service which scans my w2 and filles it out. It still gives me the option to edit stuff but I mostly just check to make sure things look good.

PseudorandomNoise ,
@PseudorandomNoise@lemmy.world avatar

You're acting like the filing that would come from the government would be the final record and you wouldn't be allowed to correct it, which is not at all what people are suggesting.

Plus, audits will still be a thing.

nulluser ,

How would they know now? It's the same answer. Stop being a dick.

wrekone ,

Grover Norquist fucks off forever

This is the world I want to live in.

adarza ,

step one for me is get out last year's so i have a point of reference. just do the same thing again. numbers are a bit different, but the general 'what-goes-where' is usually the same--unless they split a form into multiple pages, or add an extra page to one.

once i get the new blank forms printed, it's about 15 minutes for me to fill-out, copy, and stuff inside an envelope. this year's added yet another sheet, i had to use a flat instead of the usual . cost more to mail, too, but i will not ever 'e-file'.

one of the few perks of being poor---easy taxes.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

most Americans’ taxes are pretty simple and straightforward

Once the reporting for income over $600 from shit like eBay sales, Venmo, etc kicks in, the 1099 they issue would make free filing ineligible

catloaf ,

Unless it's changed from the pilot, it's only useful if you file a 1040EZ or take some really basic deductions. Anything beyond the basics, like any kind of investments, means you need to use a different tool.

But freetaxusa is still free for all but the most complex cases.

Grunt4019 ,

I’d say it’s still a win, and I’m hoping they expand upon it.

TeddE ,
@TeddE@lemmy.world avatar

But even that would cover a large percentage of the American workforce, and I imagine over a few years, it will grow to cover all users that don't need personal accountants. Progress is progress.

Personally, I hope this transitions into a system where they email you a proposed return and you do nothing to accept it (only needing to take action if there's an issue).

triptrapper ,

From the article:

The pilot program targeted people with simple tax returns based on W-2 forms. In her remarks today Yellen said that over the next few years they will expand Direct File to support more situations.

akilou ,

The catch is that Turbo Tax and H&R Block are gonna lose a ton of revenue

Ranvier ,

Only catch is Republicans probably launching some type of legal action to try and stop it.

https://www.nysscpa.org/news/publications/the-trusted-professional/article/13-republican-ags-seek-to-stop-irs-s-fre-direct-file-pilot-program-020224

No lawsuit launched yet to my knowledge, just sternly worded letters saying please stop helping taxpayers instead of letting predatory companies like Intuit fleece money off of them.

I would expect them to try something soon though with this announced.

apex32 ,

I was in a pilot state (Arizona), and I looked into it. It's only for federal taxes. You need to file state taxes separately.

There are already several online tax solutions that offer free federal and charge for state.

Lyrl ,

Does Arizona not have an online free system? Illinois has a very hand-holding guided set of questions and has for years, it's always been our federal taxes that make my head hurt to fill out via the IRS's FreeFillableForms site.

Cocodapuf ,

It probably doesn't do state taxes.

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